When is it rape?

[billvon 2,989]

> The truth is, men and women treat each other the way they are
> naturally inclined to, and this does not make either side better or
> worse than the other.

I agree with most of your post, but I'm not sure I agree with this. People are 'naturally inclined' (i.e. genetically programmed) to be basically selfish; it is our higher functions that allow us to decide that we'd rather be generous. Not because of any biological drives, but because we've become intelligent enough to realize that generosity makes the world a better place, is more in line with our morals or religion etc. It is this ability to ignore or sublimate our basic drives that sets us apart from the animals, I think.

Men and women treat each other the way they decide to treat each other. A man can have an urge to have sex with 15 year old girls. Having a drive to do that is no problem; doing it is a huge problem. Fortunately, such a person can consciously decide to not do so. Or he can decide to express some sort of urges - if he wants to throw his girlfriend on the floor of their van, tear her clothes off and have his way with her, it's no problem as long as she's OK with that.

I agree with you that someone's basic drives do not make them any better or worse than anyone else. I also think that how they express or repress those drives is what makes them better or worse than other people.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Would you like to know how quickly a rape charge can be brought forth? I had a girlfriend of 6 months, and finally we decided to consummate our relationship. It was agreed on and during the act, there were no clues, subtle or otherwise, that would make either of us stop. Afterwards, we laid together for roughly 5 minutes until she got up to get a cigarette; I went to the bathroom. By the time I came back, she was dressed, and walking out the door, and I was facing a rape charge the next day.

I broke up with a girl because she was psycho. We went to a party at my boss's house and she got jealous that I was talking to my boss's wife for 5 minutes. When we got home she came after me with a knife and when I retreated to my bedroom instead of fighting back, she kicked down my bedroom door and kept coming after me. At that point I had no choice and had to wrestle her to the ground. First and only time I ever got physical with a female, and hope it's the last. She continued to fight me, swinging her fists and giving me a black eye. I tried calling the police, and she ripped the phone out of the wall and threw it at me. Then she started chucking beer bottles at my head. I forcefully shoved her out of my apartment and locked the door. Fortunately this one was steel and she couldn't break it down, by this time my neighbors called the police.

The police got there and she told them I raped her, she had bruises on her arms and hands. Fortunately for me, her bruises were on her hands and arms and mine were on my face. She also apparently had a history of violence and the police knew her. She was also drunk and I was not. Instead of arresting me, they took a report and told her she could go have a rape kit done and if it showed rape they would follow up. Luckily, we hadn't even had sex in a couple of days. It didn't go any further than that, but it was the longest couple of nights of my life.

[Douva 0]

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> The truth is, men and women treat each other the way they are
> naturally inclined to, and this does not make either side better or
> worse than the other.

I agree with most of your post, but I'm not sure I agree with this. People are 'naturally inclined' (i.e. genetically programmed) to be basically selfish; it is our higher functions that allow us to decide that we'd rather be generous. Not because of any biological drives, but because we've become intelligent enough to realize that generosity makes the world a better place, is more in line with our morals or religion etc. It is this ability to ignore or sublimate our basic drives that sets us apart from the animals, I think.

Men and women treat each other the way they decide to treat each other. A man can have an urge to have sex with 15 year old girls. Having a drive to do that is no problem; doing it is a huge problem. Fortunately, such a person can consciously decide to not do so. Or he can decide to express some sort of urges - if he wants to throw his girlfriend on the floor of their van, tear her clothes off and have his way with her, it's no problem as long as she's OK with that.

I agree with you that someone's basic drives do not make them any better or worse than anyone else. I also think that how they express or repress those drives is what makes them better or worse than other people.

You are right, and I should have been clearer. I didn't mean that we should all act however we feel like acting. As you stated, people do have to resist their natural selfish tendencies and sexual urges. My comments were directed more along the lines of people who criticize men for not being "sensitive enough," and other similar complaints. Though some men really are insensitive jerks, I think the people making these requests are all too often just asking men to act like something other than men. I've known plenty of caring, unselfish guys who were not what I would call "romantics." Too many people (both male and female) act like masculine tendencies are evil or wrong.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[billvon 2,989]

>Too many people (both male and female) act like masculine
>tendencies are evil or wrong.

I'll agree there. The only person who has to be OK with someone's masculinity, aggressiveness, sexuality etc is their partner.

[Douva 0]

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In this scenario, I believe the man understood the comunication "I have to get home" to mean "I want to stop" as he was reported to say "just give me a minute". Poor move on his part.

Or he could have just thought she was trying to rush him to finish, and he was trying to appease her by letting her know he was almost done. I really don't think that one sentence proves anything. However, having read the more detailed article, it does sound like he probably raped her.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[diablopilot 2]

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Or he could have just thought she was trying to rush him to finish, and he was trying to appease her by letting her know he was almost done. I really don't think that one sentence proves anything. However, having read the more detailed article, it does sound like he probably raped her.

Agreed.

That's why I said

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"In this scenario, >I< believe the man understood the comunica......"

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Dougiefresh 0]

I have an idea. How about people stop having sex with people they don't know or trust? You can DIE from having sex. Sound like another activity we all engage in? Sometimes you have to pull silver, sometimes the condom breaks. The whole, entire, disgusting problem we have on our hands right now is that three young horny people didn't f***ing think before they acted. And that's the most dangerous thing I can think of.

Just my (slightly enraged) $0.02.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[sundevil777 102]

I can't remember which NOW (nat'l org of womyn) leader it was that claimed that if a woman decides the next day that she felt the man took advantage of her, that should be considered rape.

Supreme Court of California, almost as bad as Florida's.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[freeflybella 0]

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I have an idea. How about people stop having sex with people they don't know or trust?

Holy shit. What a concept.


Just to add: Stop trusting that everyone has your best interest at heart and knows what you want. Take care of yourselves. Ourselves.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[cloudynot 0]

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I agree. Some women take sexual harrassment too far. But in the case of rape, well thats a harder issue to deal with.

I can kinda understand how a man would have trouble stopping after there is penetration. It would take incredible willpower. As to the point of a girl saying NO before penetration, there is no excuse if he continues. The only word that means NO is NO. I need to go home, or i need to do my homework. WTF? That doesn't tell a guy you mean NO.

This is just such a difficult subject. I know that i believe if the wife says NO and the husband continues, then that is a rape. There are others that say it's not becuase they're married. Those rapes go unreported all the time. We could talk about this all day and still never really come up with agreeable answers.

I have to agree with this one some women take it for granted that they can just blurt out rape. By no means am I saying the girl didn't feel raped but if she just got up it sure looks fishy.

Clouds are cool to move through but not if they are NOT jumpable

[tunaplanet 0]

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When is it rape?

When the courts say it is. Period.

Every other answer is opinion and pure speculation.

Forty-two

[Faber 0]

a rape is an sexual act against a person that dont want to be a part of that act.

meaning that if you mastrubate over my face,and i tell you to stop,and you dont,then you try to rape me.

However i dont think you would feel great after such an act(unless your a really good looking girl,named Lene who is my gf,but then again,she couldnt whith out me jumping on to her.. he he)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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Would you like to know how quickly a rape charge can be brought forth? I had a girlfriend of 6 months, and finally we decided to consummate our relationship. It was agreed on and during the act, there were no clues, subtle or otherwise, that would make either of us stop. Afterwards, we laid together for roughly 5 minutes until she got up to get a cigarette; I went to the bathroom. By the time I came back, she was dressed, and walking out the door, and I was facing a rape charge the next day.

I broke up with a girl because she was psycho. We went to a party at my boss's house and she got jealous that I was talking to my boss's wife for 5 minutes. When we got home she came after me with a knife and when I retreated to my bedroom instead of fighting back, she kicked down my bedroom door and kept coming after me. At that point I had no choice and had to wrestle her to the ground. First and only time I ever got physical with a female, and hope it's the last. She continued to fight me, swinging her fists and giving me a black eye. I tried calling the police, and she ripped the phone out of the wall and threw it at me. Then she started chucking beer bottles at my head. I forcefully shoved her out of my apartment and locked the door. Fortunately this one was steel and she couldn't break it down, by this time my neighbors called the police.

The police got there and she told them I raped her, she had bruises on her arms and hands. Fortunately for me, her bruises were on her hands and arms and mine were on my face. She also apparently had a history of violence and the police knew her. She was also drunk and I was not. Instead of arresting me, they took a report and told her she could go have a rape kit done and if it showed rape they would follow up. Luckily, we hadn't even had sex in a couple of days. It didn't go any further than that, but it was the longest couple of nights of my life.

I thought I knew some crazy girls.........and this was a different girl than the one that you just went to court over?

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[tunaplanet 0]

Yeah, seems he's always having women accuse him of crimes. Weird.

Forty-two