USPA 0 #26 May 28, 2010 Although true, I still think regular maintenance could be important. You can check calibration and update software if needed. On the other side, the manufacturer gains valuable information about the performance of the devices in the field. This in turns benefits the customers (skydiver community). Concerning the Airtec maintenance, I pressume they always have / had a conundrum. If they state that so and so many devices fail the maintenance, they're basically saying "Hey, our product became defective somewhere between the last time we saw it and now" and if hardly ever a devices fails, they're basically saying "This maintenance is actually surplus, but we like the data and it keeps our people employed".The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #27 May 28, 2010 Quote....just so everyone knows, all those who are leary of relying on a "self check" such as the Vigil also rely on the "self check" EVERY time they jump with any AAD. Just because a factory tests a unit to near destruction, does not mean it will fire correctly the day after you get it in the mail. Every jump we do with an AAD will ultimately rely on a "self check"..... just so everyone knows..... I think most realize that. It is a trade-off of how often a thorough check is done, to find potential trouble before it might show up in use. One mfg chose to go with never, one a trivial check every 4 years, one a very thorough check every 4 years. The cypres maint check is absolutely not a "to near destruction" test. Most units pass both the 4 and 8 year checks like it is a walk in the park (std 2 week turnaround). The fact that it isn't a walk in the park (it takes 2 weeks! - it is not just a trivial FXC style chamber test) is a good thing. I want a design that is so good that at 4 and 8 years it can withstand a test that it should be expected to have passed when it was new. If a lot of units were needing rework at 4 or 8 years, it could show a weakness earlier than would be the case otherwise.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #28 May 28, 2010 Quoteone a trivial check every 4 years OMG, you state this after a single phone call to a field service centre... There are 2 words for that: Ignorant and Fanboy. 2 qualities that are new for me in skydiving.The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #29 May 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteone a trivial check every 4 years OMG, you state this after a single phone call to a field service centre... There are 2 words for that: Ignorant and Fanboy. 2 qualities that are new for me in skydiving. OMG, I spoke to a guy that described in great detail what they did. If you have better information, why don't you share it? If not, then keep the unwarranted insults to yourself, OMG. Fanboy? OMG, I really hated having to send my cypres away for service, but I understand the overall benefit, OMGPeople are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #30 May 28, 2010 I stated clearly what I know about the maintenance... Your state yourself you only did a single phonecall. After this call you call it a trivial check (a check you didn't even know existed a few hours ago). Your continuous bashing of other AADs smell like a fanboy. It may be clear I'm a proponent of Argus, but I give credit to Airtec and Vigil where credit is due. Since you state you have extensive knowledge of the maintenance, please share the protocol and software used for testing with us.The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #31 May 28, 2010 QuoteI stated clearly what I know about the maintenance... You only said vague stuff about checking the sensors. If you can impress us with how complete the testing is, then please do so. Quote Since you state you have extensive knowledge of the maintenance, please share the protocol and software used for testing with us. Airtec does a real good job of describing how extensive and rigorous it is. If the Argus testing is impressive, they sure don't show that they're proud of it.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #32 May 28, 2010 So you have very little knowledge about the maintenance and still call it trivial...The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #33 May 28, 2010 QuoteSo you have very little knowledge about the maintenance and still call it trivial... I was a mechanical design engineer for 18 years, including design of avionics and radar test equipment for Boeing. I talked to a guy at a DZ that described what they do. Perhaps the word trivial was not deserved, but compared to what Airtek does, it is at least aptly described as minimal. Nothing is stopping you from impressing us with how the Argus is tested.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #34 May 28, 2010 Like I said, I have little knowledge of the testing. I was just annoyed at your judgment, without knowing their protocol. As a mechanical engineer you should know you should reserve judgment until you get such data. The term minimal isn't correct either, I would describe Vigil as minimal and Argus as somewhere in between.The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spootch 0 #35 May 28, 2010 Gentlemen, mud slinging ain't gonna solve nothing here. It's obvious these manufacturers are here to stay , and only time and transparacy will tell the story of reliability. I do hope however, safety devices become cheaper as time goes by and maybe even standard (like an air bag in a car). Having 3 major players is a good thing and offers the consumer a choice. Long gone are the days of "put an FXC in it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
