diablopilot 2 #76 May 12, 2004 QuoteThat is the problem. It is a "simple" rating to get. If it's so simple than someone who lables tham selves as an LO, or disipline specific coach should have no trouble getting it. Who give a flying you know what how simple it is to get. The point is it's more than a test of some basic flying skills. It's a test and teaching of observational skills, as well as a teaching of a method of teaching. It's an evaluation of wether a canidate will just spill out information rote style, or instead try different techniques to ensure the student understands what they are being taught. LO's don't always do this. Often they drag a person along on skydive after unsucsessful skydive. Proper methodology will cause the same student to see results in far fewer jumps. Should the requirement be chamged? Yeah, 200 jumps would be better. But it's what is avaliable now. A SL jumpmaster rating was just as easy to get back in the day. It could be had will only 100 jumps under a person's belt. No one seemed to complain about it them teaching students. A Coach rating is a similar thing, with a little bit of freefall evaluation thrown in. I'll go back to my previous statement.... put up or.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #77 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuotewill lend themselves legitimacy by obtaining this simple rating. That is the problem. It is a "simple" rating to get. The requirements aren't that hard at all. I have seen one person in particular get one recently that plain and simple SUCKS in the air. They couldn't even dock on me in a two way without help. Now they are going to be a coach? Yep! I've seen one coach funnel a two way. Another issue is that some skydivers feel they have incredible knowledge, and would not need to waste money on the course. That's fine, but can they be articulate and teach? And by who's standards? There's or the CDs? I think there should be a way to "challenge" the rating, much like the AFF-I. I am not a Coach Course Director but I have been an evaluator on many skydives and ground preps. It should be an option. I also feel that one must have been a coach for at least 6 months prior to entering the AFFIRC, but probably not the TI rating. This way a coach learns how things are done at their particular DZ, much like an apprentice. The Coach Rating is not a difficult rating to get. The difficulty arises when one tries to get hired by the DZ staff. If you feel that a particular coach sucks, that's because the DZ has lowered it's standards. There are lots of coach rated skydivers, and some may be very good, but aren't on staff. At some DZs we are very fortunate to have excellent coaches/flyers. It's not the rating, it's what you do with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMGR2 0 #78 May 12, 2004 Douva, you are absolutely right! I see the light! You are unbelievably amazing and your knowledge of the BSR's, exemplary. You are the greatest. One of these days I hope I can fill your tights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #79 May 12, 2004 QuoteI think there should be a way to "challenge" the rating, much like the AFF-I. Maybe the freefall and observation portion, but the stuff that carried over from the BIC should me manditory.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #80 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think there should be a way to "challenge" the rating, much like the AFF-I. Maybe the freefall and observation portion, but the stuff that carried over from the BIC should me mandatory. Absolutely! BTW, you're persona non grata on the Infinity-Way. So sez Dom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #81 May 12, 2004 QuoteBTW, you're persona non grata on the Infinity-Way. So sez Dom. Uhhuh, well whuteva....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #82 May 12, 2004 QuoteYeah, I had to bust my ass to get my TM. My DZO and I worked out a deal, I got my ratings "on the red" and worked the cost off. Funny how quickly that large chunk of money that I was debted to disappeared when I started cranking tandems every weekend. We all came out ahead. I got some ratings that I wanted (I love working with students), the DZ got a much needed TM and I was able to do it at a time in which there was (still is) no way in hell I could afford it. Jesus, how many broke-ass college kids do you know that have that opportunity? I get another plus, I make enough money doing something I love that it keeps me in the air as well. Win win. Eitherway, I don't see how if someone had the money to go through the courses, why that would make them an untrustworthy instructor. They passed the course, they got the rating, now they have to prove themselves...just like every single other instructor in the history of skydiving. Your comments concerning 'win win' for the tandem mule and the DZO leave out the most important person ...the student. You've become vested in the business system ...of course it seems good to you. win win ...lose? (not cool) Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #83 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteBTW, you're persona non grata on the Infinity-Way. So sez Dom. Uhhuh, well whuteva.... ...but I'll still buy you a or 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #84 May 12, 2004 Our Vote: It is a good program, but how are people with 100 jumps teaching someone with 8 jumps anyway? ""100 Jumps WAY TOO LOW"" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #85 May 12, 2004 QuoteYou are the greatest. One of these days I hope I can fill your tights. Big boy, you fill my tights every time I see you. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #86 May 12, 2004 QuoteIf it's so simple than someone who lables tham selves as an LO, or disipline specific coach should have no trouble getting it. My point wasn't who should get it. It is that it is so easy to get it is almost a pointless rating. The requirements should be much harder. QuoteLO's don't always do this. Often they drag a person along on skydive after unsucsessful skydive. Proper methodology will cause the same student to see results in far fewer jumps. Agreed! But is it really an LO's job to coach? I do when I lo because I want the jumps to be succesfull, but no where does it say I have to coach anybody on anything. An Lo is just that , an Organizer. Not a coach. QuoteA SL jumpmaster rating was just as easy to get back in the day. It could be had will only 100 jumps under a person's belt. No one seemed to complain about it them teaching students. A static line jumpmaster was not an instructor. We didn't teach unless we had a S/L instructor rating. Different requirements and different jobs. A Static line Jumpmaster did just that Jumpmaster. Of course he could sign a student off for their next level of progression, but that was based on his observations of how the student performed on that jump. Sure some did coaching as well, but it wasn't part of their job. If a student needed remedial trainingg they where sent to an instructor for coaching. Plus the requirments as far as class room training was much more in depth then the present coaches course (or at east the one I took) My point is that most people with 100 jumps still can't figure out what they are doing wrong let alone what someone else is doing wrong. Even at 200 jumps a lot of folks won't be ready to "coach"anyone. Just because they sat in a class room and did two jumps doesn't mean that they are competent enough to really be a coach. Come on JP you no exactly who I am talking about. You are going to tell me that that person should be coaching anyone?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #87 May 12, 2004 QuoteA static line jumpmaster was not an instructor. We didn't teach unless we had a S/L instructor rating. Different requirements and different jobs. A Static line Jumpmaster did just that Jumpmaster. Of course he could sign a student off for their next level of progression, And that is EXACTLY what a coach is there to do. They should not be teaching maneuvers, but evaluating performance. Sure they give the student the dive flow, but it's right out of the BOOK. There is not much difference at all other than the Coach evaluates in freefall rather than from the door of the aircraft. QuoteMy point is that most people with 100 jumps still can't figure out what they are doing wrong let alone what someone else is doing wrong. I've said it at least 2 times already: 100 jumps is probably too low. So what? We scrap the entire program and leave the newbies to the wolves again? Fuck that. If you don't like the 100 jump requirement then suggest to the USPA that it minimum requirement be a coach must have a C. QuoteJust because they sat in a classroom and did two jumps doesn't mean that they are competent enough to really be a coach. Damn. You give no credit to the course director do you? Sure all they had to do is sit there. And get someone like Jay Stokes or Glenn Bangs to sign him or her off. Cause you know Jay or Glenn don't give a shit, he'll sign any one off.(that's sarcasm for those that missed it) QuoteCome on JP you no exactly who I am talking about. You are going to tell me that that person should be coaching anyone? I have no idea whom you're talking about. Honestly.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #88 May 12, 2004 QuoteAnd that is EXACTLY what a coach is there to do. They should not be teaching maneuvers, but evaluating performance. Then why are they called a coach? Shouldn't they be called evaluators then? QuoteDamn. You give no credit to the course director do you? Sure all they had to do is sit there. And get someone like Jay Stokes or Glenn Bangs to sign him or her off. Cause you know Jay or Glenn don't give a shit, he'll sign any one off.(that's sarcasm for those that missed it) Jay and Glenn aren't the only ones that give out coaches ratings, and even if they where they can't just fail you because they don't like you. The requirments are written down. If you go and pass the course you get the rating. What can they do if you pass and they still think you aren't ready for it? They have to give you the rating if you passed the course. QuoteI have no idea whom you're talking about. Honestly. Think pink jumpsuit with Black Rubber on the front. Then think she tried to ruin me with B.C. because I told her that she needed to wear weights and was giving her hand signals during a 2 way. She couldn't even dock on me and now she has a rating and is going to be teaching coaching people.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #89 May 13, 2004 Hey Douva! Show him the "Kung-Foo" video! It could change your rep forever, I'm just not sure if it would be good or bad "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #90 May 13, 2004 QuoteWhat can they do if you pass and they still think you aren't ready for it? That doesn't make sense. If someone meets the qualifications, and can pass the course, then they should be a coach. To decide otherwise is discrimination. If you don't like the current requirements, tell the USPA. Jim Crouch would be a good one to start with. His e-mail should be saftey@uspa.org Nothing changes unless people ask. QuoteThink pink jumpsuit with Black Rubber on the front. Then think she tried to ruin me with B.C. because I told her that she needed to wear weights and was giving her hand signals during a 2 way. She couldn't even dock on me and now she has a rating and is going to be teaching coaching people. I think I know. I've never skydived with that person. Sounds like it might be a personal thing. Oh yeah, she'll be coaching and evaluating. Teaching is for instructors.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
