Infinity or Javelin or Mirage

[virgin-burner 1]

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I would highly suggest what ever container you get that you get one with a skyhook. I believe Micron, Javelin, and Icon all have an option for the skyhook. I love my Infinity and Kelly makes a great rig but there is not an option for the skyhook with it

and i would not..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[tjm 0]

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I would highly suggest what ever container you get that you get one with a skyhook. I believe Micron, Javelin, and Icon all have an option for the skyhook. I love my Infinity and Kelly makes a great rig but there is not an option for the skyhook with it

and i would not..

+1 Kelly, great rig, no need to add a skyhook.

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[rehmwa 2]

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I only have 26 jumps but I want to get my own rig.

your own rig - great idea
NEW rig at 26 jumps - crappy idea

find a used one that fits you nicely with a parachute sized right for your next 150-200 jumps

new can come later - sized better for your 200-1000th jumps

IMHO

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jay7227021 0]

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I'll try to make this quick since it's been posted 100 times eslewhere - a used rig is a good for your first rig or two unless money is no object, and here's why -

Main canopy -

If you're buying the right sized main, you'll be looking to downsize within 100 jumps or so. If you buy new, you'll lose your ass on resale ($500?) trying to sell a big canopy with 100 jump on it. Also, big brand-new canopies are very hard to pack, and are a shitty way to do your first 100 pack jobs. Look for a canopy with at least 200/300 jumps on it, and up to 700/800 can still be a good canopy.

Reserve canopy -

No reason to buy new or used except what's available. Reserves are regualy inspected and well cared for, so you can save money buiying used if you can find the right size available.

Container -

Same story as the main canopy. When you do go to downsize your main, you might need to downsize your container as well. IF you buy one with an 'easy' fit for your first canopy (makes it easier to pack) it will be on the 'larger' size, and you'll want to downsize the container anyway. If you bought new, you'll lose even more than the canopy on resale ($800? $1000?). By the time your container is custom made for you, with your choice of options and colors, it becomes harder to find a buyer who wants exactly what you have, so you have to drop the price to sell. There's also the idea that you'll biff it in on landing a dozen times in your first 100 jumps, and that sucks when it's a brand new $2000 container.

AADs-

Most AADs have a set value they loose every year, so the resale market is pretty well set in stone. If you can find used, buy used, if you can't find used then buy new.

The overall idea is that for 1/2 the price of a new rig, you can put together a used rig that will suit your needs just fine, and you can spend the $3000 you save on jumps or hookers. Down the road when you know more about gear and are ready to upgrade to new stuff, you can ususally sell the used gear for 80% to 90% of what you paid for it.

If you're between 5' 4" and 6' 1", and anything close an 'appropriate' weight for your height, you should have no problem finding used gear that fits. Involve a local rigger to assist you with your purchases. Have them inspect everything you're interested in either before you make payment, or make sure you can return anything that doesn't fit or pass inspection.

My dzo has a used main for me. sabre 230. Im a little bigger so ita hard to get a used rig for my size. 5'11 225. ive been looking every day on here but cant find anything i like. im goign to talk to him friday and jump some, i just wanted peoples opinions on them before hand so i can ask him about the stuff. thanks for the info though. i definitely am looking top acquire as much used gear as i can to help spend more of my money on jumping.

[davelepka 4]

You're not that far off the mark in terms of 'average' size.

In case you weren't aware, the harness on a used container can be resized at the factory for between $150 and $400 depending on the rig, type of harness, and amount of work needed.

Locate a used container that will hold the main and reserve canopies you intend to jump, then get the serial number from the seller. Have someone with some experience measure you according to the order form for that type of rig, then contact the manufacturer with the serial number (so they know what they're starting with) and your meansurements for a quote on the resize. It's entirely possible to get a used container with a new, custom built harness for 50% or 60% the price of an all new rig.

Another thing you can do is have the seller ship the rig directly to the manufacturer for an inspection. If the rig passes inspection have them proceed with the work, and you can send payment to the seller. If the rig does not pass, have it shipped back to the seller. Maybe agree to split the cost of the inspection and shipping in the event the rig does not pass inspection.

I can't think of any legitimate seller who would not be willing to ship the rig back to the factory for an inspection without having payment in hand. They will be shipping, and the factory will only return it to them unless they call and advise them of a new return shipping address. It's a safe transaction for all involved.

The other bonus is that you have a factory inspected rig, with a fresh, custom built harness. Of course, you also have the $1000 you saved still in your pocket.

[ridestrong 1]

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I also like the internal kill-line in the bridal for the collapsible PC.

have you seen anything else on a more or less modern container!?

Yeah, all the Wings containers seem to have the line outside of the bridle..., and I thought maybe some of the older Mirages but I could be mistaken?

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[riggerpaul 1]

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I also like the internal kill-line in the bridal for the collapsible PC.

have you seen anything else on a more or less modern container!?

Yeah, all the Wings containers seem to have the line outside of the bridle..., and I thought maybe some of the older Mirages but I could be mistaken?

You must be talking about the short section of the kill line that is inside the deployment bag.

I think you'll find that the fully enclosed kill line is the exception.

Most kill line pilot chutes have some kill line exposed inside the d-bag.

[jay7227021 0]

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You're not that far off the mark in terms of 'average' size.

In case you weren't aware, the harness on a used container can be resized at the factory for between $150 and $400 depending on the rig, type of harness, and amount of work needed.

Locate a used container that will hold the main and reserve canopies you intend to jump, then get the serial number from the seller. Have someone with some experience measure you according to the order form for that type of rig, then contact the manufacturer with the serial number (so they know what they're starting with) and your meansurements for a quote on the resize. It's entirely possible to get a used container with a new, custom built harness for 50% or 60% the price of an all new rig.

Another thing you can do is have the seller ship the rig directly to the manufacturer for an inspection. If the rig passes inspection have them proceed with the work, and you can send payment to the seller. If the rig does not pass, have it shipped back to the seller. Maybe agree to split the cost of the inspection and shipping in the event the rig does not pass inspection.

I can't think of any legitimate seller who would not be willing to ship the rig back to the factory for an inspection without having payment in hand. They will be shipping, and the factory will only return it to them unless they call and advise them of a new return shipping address. It's a safe transaction for all involved.

The other bonus is that you have a factory inspected rig, with a fresh, custom built harness. Of course, you also have the $1000 you saved still in your pocket.

Thanks. I didnt know they could resize them. Im sure my dzo is goign to go through all my options with me tomorrow when i go talk to him. Thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated.

[adventurechick 0]

Infinity all the way!! Mine is super comfortable, the main pin flap doesn't come undone in freefall, and it is a very well built rig.

Plus, Felix Baumgartner is using a rig built by Velocity Sports/Infinity Containers in his upcoming jump from space, and that's just cool.

All in all, Infinity has a great price, amazing customer service, the floating laterals hug the rig to your body for extra comfort, and the secondary riser covers are pretty awesome.

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[wmw999 2,446]

What he said. They're all just fine; start with used and use it to learn what you want most in a rig. It might change with some experience.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skybytch 273]

You should buy whichever container you like the best that also fits in your budget and level of patience for delivery of your new toy. You'll be happy with any harness/container system on the market that is built to fit the canopies you intend to fly and to fit your body measurements.

That said, it's a known fact that every skydiver should buy an Infinity.

[Amazon 7]

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You should buy whichever container you like the best that also fits in your budget and level of patience for delivery of your new toy. You'll be happy with any harness/container system on the market that is built to fit the canopies you intend to fly and to fit your body measurements.

That said, it's a known fact that every skydiver should buy an Infinity.

What she said
I have never had anything but the very best in customer service from Velocity for the 3 Infinities that I have owned and jumped.

The workmanship is superior and I have NEVER had the issues with flaps doing funky things in any position I have skydived in.

Its super freefly freindly even when I have gotten unstable at over 250 MPH doing speedskydiving jumps.
( that is a very good inadvertent tumbling test of the rig and of flaps staying in place.)
I have never had any flap come open on any dive including record speed diving jumps where my top speeds are over 300 MPH.

[drdive 0]

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If you want poor customer service, long delays, and sending the container back to make it right, go for Mirage.

how many transactions like that have you had with Mirage ?
how many containers have you bought from other manufacturers ?

And your point is???????????

Just relating recent experience with Mirage. And seeing multiple recent threads not happy with their customer service. Believe me, I won't have a second transaction with Mirage.

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

"

[erdnarob 1]

You should take the advice of a rigger who has a lot of experience to make your rig choice. Among the three rigs you mention I would chose the Mirage because of the AAD cutter position (above the pilot chute). The Javelin has the AAD cutter at the bottom of the reserve pack leaving a long cut loop (in case of AAD firing) to zigzag between the flap grommets making the pilot chute less efficient. The Javelin Pilot chute spring is too weak to jump high enough to go thru the burble making more possible a hesitation of the pilot chute when time counts the most. I don't know enough about the Infinity which looks great. But without considering the cost, my ultimate preference is the Vector III with Skyhook and magnet riser covers. No rig matches it so far.
Tuck flaps are not the best to maintain in place riser covers. According Bill Booth if a tuck flap releases a fraction of a second later than the other one, the risers and lines are not even anymore during the deployment and a very hard opening can be the result and is able to send you at the hospital. Magnets are consistent time after time.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[ridestrong 1]

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I also like the internal kill-line in the bridal for the collapsible PC.

have you seen anything else on a more or less modern container!?

Yeah, all the Wings containers seem to have the line outside of the bridle..., and I thought maybe some of the older Mirages but I could be mistaken?

You must be talking about the short section of the kill line that is inside the deployment bag.

I think you'll find that the fully enclosed kill line is the exception.

Most kill line pilot chutes have some kill line exposed inside the d-bag.

Yeah, I was referring to the portion of the the kill line between the d-bag and the PC... there is NO exposed/external kill line with the Vector bridle. Can't say I've ever really heard of it being a problem, just seems like it could more likely get tangled or knotted being exposed and not fully internal... I guess I just like the idea or aesthetics of it.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[simplechris 0]

At 6'3 195 I have a long torso and I tried the Javelin and the Infinity. The Infinity seemed to fit me better so that is what I went went. Built solid, looks great and I'm happy as can be with it. Can't wait till I order my next one.

[Slurp56 0]

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Among the three rigs you mention I would chose the Mirage because of the AAD cutter position (above the pilot chute).

There are 2 camps of people on this subject, but without getting derailed, the Infinity has the cutter located above the pilot chute as well, if that is the "deal maker" for you.

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The Javelin has the AAD cutter at the bottom of the reserve pack leaving a long cut loop (in case of AAD firing) to zigzag between the flap grommets making the pilot chute less efficient.

The Javelin has fewer flaps for the pilot chute to push through, so I'm not sure it's suceptible to the zig-zag problem that poor rigging induces into concealed pilot chute designs.

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without considering the cost, my ultimate preference is the Vector III with Skyhook and magnet riser covers. No rig matches it so far.
Tuck flaps are not the best to maintain in place riser covers. According Bill Booth if a tuck flap releases a fraction of a second later than the other one, the risers and lines are not even anymore during the deployment and a very hard opening can be the result and is able to send you at the hospital. Magnets are consistent time after time.

Do you believe everything you read or are you just that gullible? Just because Bill Booth says something, doesn't make it accurate, no matter how convincing he makes it sound. I wont dispute the argument that Vector3 Magnetic Riser covers are better than Vector3 Tuck Tab Riser covers, but all tuck tab riser covers aren't created equal.

________________________________________
I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw.

[rhys 0]

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Those rigs are OK, but what you want is a Vector3. An' that's all she wrote. Cool

there, fixed it for you! Tongue

I concur, the vector is the best on the market!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Ironmanjay 0]

Im a huge fan of infinity. Kelly (owner) and tony (manager) are awesome guys to work with when building your rig. I dont have any other personal experience with those other rig manufacturers but Infinity is top notch with their customer service. And not to mention they have the the most comfortable rigs Ive tried on!

[trigger 0]

I'd go used for now and maybe look towards shiny new in say 200 jumps time.
Rig wise, i think the overwhelming majority of 'new' kit is excellent tho i presently jump a V3 and can vouch for their excellent customer care.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[stayhigh 2]

Infinity,..


as for Skyhook???? really?? need them daily bases??

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Heatmiser 0]

I just got one thing to say............WONDERHOG!

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[davelepka 4]

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Thanks. I didnt know they could resize them. Im sure my dzo is goign to go through all my options with me tomorrow when i go talk to him. Thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated

I forgot to mention the issue of delivery time. Any new rig is going to run you at least 3 months, with most rigs being closer to 4. So an order today will come in around Sept.

A used rig that fits you could be up in the air next week. A harness resize shoudn't take more that a couple weeks, so figure on a month to find a rig, get a resize, and get everything assembled and ready to fly. So in addition to the lower upfront cost, and better resale value, a used rig will save you the three months of gear rental you'll need while you wait for a new rig to be built.

[diablopilot 2]

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Tuck flaps are not the best to maintain in place riser covers. According Bill Booth if a tuck flap releases a fraction of a second later than the other one, the risers and lines are not even anymore during the deployment and a very hard opening can be the result and is able to send you at the hospital. Magnets are consistent time after time.

Really? And for just how long has every other manufacturer been successfully using tuck tabs?

Try to look for the truth inside the hype.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[theonlyski 8]

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I just got one thing to say............WONDERHOG!

I got 2 of them

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
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