Reserve ripcord pins

[freeflymat 0]

Be aware guys these pins are still out there!!!!!!
2 rigs both made by chute shop now trading as parachutesystems. Both rigs are Vortex II 150 d.o.m 98 and 99 original owners original pins. 1st pin snapped during repack cycle by another packer and the other snapped during the 1st infield test at a force of approximately 8-10 lbs. Australian Parachute Federation sent out a service bulletin regarding pin checks to coincide with Capwells s.b(not sure of the manufacturer of the pins at this stage). Photos now attatched

weather holds make me hungry!

[airtwardo 7]

THAT'S scary!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Anvilbrother 0]

Did that rig have an aad?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[freeflymat 0]

Hi again,
just recieved an email from Parachute systems who were more than helpfull (new pins in the mail), and it's the first case they have heard of their pins breaking. So if your unsure about your rig see a rigger and get it checked.
Yes both the rigs have aad's, but which would you prefer ?
An aad fire or a pin check????

Mat

weather holds make me hungry!

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

...but which would you prefer ? An aad fire or a pin check????

It is not a question of one or the other.

The pin could have broken after a check, even if that check was just before exit. All it takes is to lean against a rib inside the plane, bump up against the door, etc.

The fact that a ripcord pin is vulnerable to such damage is really awful, I think. Even when the pins meet the strength spec that they are supposed to meet, they are not very strong. I have voiced my opinion on this in earlier threads when the bulletin came out years ago. Some agreed, all too many think the pins are a proven design and good enough.

I caught a bent pin on a friend's rig back in the late 80s. It would certainly have caused a hard pull at best, impossible pull at worst. A rigger unfortunately yanked it out by hand (pulling at an angle on the cable). It would have been interesting to see what the pull force was. This was back when people didn't have AADs to potentially save your butt like is common now. Of course a broken pin can mean you can't open the reserve like the case of this thread, or a sudden opening of the reserve which of course can also kill you.

Time for a upgrade to a really strong pin design.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

Time for a upgrade to a really strong pin design.

I never figured out why they dont just use a pin like a pullout system? Strong, straight (maybe make one a little longer).

Dont think those things would bend/break without being grossly damaged.

If it was allowed, I would have no problem being the test dummy for such pin.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[mark 107]

Quote

I never figured out why they dont just use a pin like a pullout system? Strong, straight (maybe make one a little longer).

What's old is new again. A Rodriguez rig, the Spanish Fly, had just such a reserve ripcord pin. 30 years ago.

Mark

[theonlyski 8]

So what was the reasoning for changing to the smaller, thinner pin? (easier to pin the reserve closing loop maybe?)

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[mark 107]

Quote

So what was the reasoning for changing to the smaller, thinner pin? (easier to pin the reserve closing loop maybe?)

The "smaller, thinner pin" is the original pin, one that has been used on parachutes since just about forever. Then, as now, the pin is designed to slide into a hole drilled through the side of a 1x1 (approx) cone used instead of a closing loop. The pin needs to be hard enough not to bend easily, of course, but soft enough that it can be squashed or hammered to flow around and grip the ripcord cable.

The Spanish Fly reserve ripcord really was a pull-out pin. It used suspension line instead of steel cable, and a fabric channel instead of a flexible metal housing. IIRC, the ripcord could not be pulled all the way out of the housing, which meant you couldn't lose it (a feature), the handle could entangle with the reserve in case of an unstable deployment (which most folks didn't care about), and you couldn't inspect it for wear (a bug, but one which modern jumpers including me cheerfully accept from UPT these days).

Mark

[freeflymat 0]

Not just your normal pin check
Here's an extract from Capewell S.B

6. Apply a load of 15 lbs. (6.8kg) straight up and 90 degrees to the axis of the pin for a period of 3 seconds
and then release the load (Fig. 2). Inspect the pin for any deformation or bend. If the pin is straight,
continue with step 7 below. If the pin is not straight, as visible without magnification, remove the
pin/ripcord from service immediately.
7. Mark the inspected side of the pin with the felt marker to avoid repeatedly testing the same side of the
pin.
8. Rotate the pin one-quarter turn and test again as in step 6.
9. Repeat the procedure in step 6 until the pin has been tested in four positions and rotated one-quarter turn
in the same direction prior to each test.

The pin in question only reached a force of 8-10 lbs on the very first attempt. It literally surprised the shit out of me on how little force was required to snap the pin with little or no bending involved. Hence this thread, all i'm trying to do is let people know that there are still "brittle" pins out there that are outside the dates noted in Capewells' S.B.

Link to full Capewell S.B sorry couldn't attach file.
http://hq.apf.asn.au:85/images/e/e0/SBCW03-01.pdf

Mat

weather holds make me hungry!

[airtwardo 7]

Link to full Capewell S.B sorry couldn't attach file.
http://hq.apf.asn.au:85/images/e/e0/SBCW03-01.pdf

Mat

[hackish 8]

If you guys have looked at the latest designs UPT is using they're a fair bit larger than these pins. I haven't tested them yet but they did give me a few to play with.

I had some discussion with Nancy at Jumpshack about the pins they produce in their metal shop. Properly hardened pins should be able to be bent like 90 degrees and straightened again without snapping like a piece of glass.

-Michael

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

...and you couldn't inspect it for wear (a bug, but one which modern jumpers including me cheerfully accept from UPT these days)....

What's UPT got going now that you cannot inspect for wear?

I'm not arguing, I just want to know. Thanks.

[riggermick 7]

Quote

Not just your normal pin check
Here's an extract from Capewell S.B

6. Apply a load of 15 lbs. (6.8kg) straight up and 90 degrees to the axis of the pin for a period of 3 seconds
and then release the load (Fig. 2). Inspect the pin for any deformation or bend. If the pin is straight,
continue with step 7 below. If the pin is not straight, as visible without magnification, remove the
pin/ripcord from service immediately.
7. Mark the inspected side of the pin with the felt marker to avoid repeatedly testing the same side of the
pin.
8. Rotate the pin one-quarter turn and test again as in step 6.
9. Repeat the procedure in step 6 until the pin has been tested in four positions and rotated one-quarter turn
in the same direction prior to each test.

The pin in question only reached a force of 8-10 lbs on the very first attempt. It literally surprised the shit out of me on how little force was required to snap the pin with little or no bending involved. Hence this thread, all i'm trying to do is let people know that there are still "brittle" pins out there that are outside the dates noted in Capewells' S.B.

Link to full Capewell S.B sorry couldn't attach file.
http://hq.apf.asn.au:85/images/e/e0/SBCW03-01.pdf

Mat

Not to add alarm to the situation, but pause for thought. Sandy (RI) and Fliteline both sourced thier ripcords from the same supplier. I'm not in the business any more, Action air in Davis CA handles all Reflex related business these days. Might be worth a look see to determine if it is a systemic problem or a "one off".

Mick.

[erdnarob 1]

Extremely shocking those broken reserve pins. Reserve is our last chance. We have had that problem several years ago and a service bulletin was issued in order to have some series of rigs getting their reserve pin a 4 quadrant 12 lbs radial check. The result was that each individual pin was checked that way by the manufacturers. Obviously, it is not always the case. I am glad I am away from that kind of pin by having a Skyhook.
The pin of the Skyhook is thicker, is not swaged and has more or less a square (with corners rounded up) cross section. A friend of mine who is a master rigger changed for than kind of pin despite he doesn't have a Skyhook.
Those round pins are used for seventy years and were designed first for metal cones on military rigs. My idea is that, it is maybe the time to change for something ticker like the skyhook type of pin since the tension on the reserve single closing loop now can reach 200 lbs +.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.