Choice of Handle - The Facts (Plastic vs. Freefly vs. Hackey)

[kellja2001 0]

Ok, so a lot of facts I'm asking for here will be based on personal experience, and I entirely understand everyone's is different. I appreciate your opinion, because it helps me make an informed choice for my University club rig!

As I understand it, the pros and cons for each BOC Pilot Chute Extractor are as follows, but anything else anyone can think of will be gratefully recieved (!):

Plastic:
Pros:
Lightweight - reduces chance of knotted pilot chute/bridle
Large - can be located/pulled easily
Solid - won't go soft

Cons:
Bulky
Risk of floating handle

Freefly:
Pros:
Lightweight - reduces chance of knotted pilot chute/bridle
Additional bridle protection
Secures in, preventing floating handle

Cons:
Small, can be (more) difficult to find, especially in the cold
Requires two-action pull (down, then out)
Becomes "squidgy" (soft) after a few hundred jumps

Hackey:
Pros:
Large - can be located/pulled easily
Solid - won't go soft

Cons:
Risk of floating handle
Highest probability of knotted bridle / pilot chute due to weight (in my experience anyway - I've seen 2)

[peek 21]

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Large - can be located/pulled easily
Solid - won't go soft

Excuse me, what is this thread about?!!! Shouldn't it be in Bonfire?


No seriously, I prefer the PVC (plastic) handle. It seldom moves, probably because it is lightweight. It stays right there against the bottom of the rig.

However, I jumped a rig once with the "freefly pud" thingy and I liked it well enough.

I do not like hackey-sack handles. They flop around like a limp d...... well, you know.

[airtwardo 7]

They flop around like a limp d...... well, you know.

Gee Gary...no, some of us don't know what that feels like!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[diablopilot 2]

For students I prefer the plastic handle, as it's light weight, and easy to grasp. It is unlikely to bang around and be dislodged in unstable higher speed situations. It does not put undue wear on the P/C attachment point.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[sundevil777 102]

The hackey handle for my first rig was very lightweight it seemed to me. Nothing at all like the weight of an actual hackysack. I'd guess they might even be less than a PVC handle. Perhaps there are some versions that are filled with a heavy material.

You listed the cons for a freefly handle as:

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Small, can be (more) difficult to find, especially in the cold
Requires two-action pull (down, then out)
Becomes "squidgy" (soft) after a few hundred jumps

How did you arrive at those conclusions? The first two are definitely not true, I doubt the last will be.

I think you'd do well to reconsider your assumptions. They are at the very least dependent on the mfg of the rig.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kellja2001 0]

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Excuse me, what is this thread about?!!! Shouldn't it be in Bonfire?

Good spot on the innuendo

Quote

How did you arrive at those conclusions? The first true are definitely not true, I doubt the last will be.

Personal experience.

I'm not necessarily saying my experience is correct, and you make a very valid point that it depends on the manufacturer.

This is exactly the sort of questioning I'm looking for, to see if my judgement has been affected by my own, limited experience.

[yeyo 1]

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Freefly:
Cons:

Requires two-action pull (down, then out)

My experience:
My rig has a freefly hackey (normal hackey with tuck tab). In about 800 jumps I've never used two motions to extract it. It really doesn't feel any different at pull time, at least for me.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[Blink 1]

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Freefly:
Cons:

Requires two-action pull (down, then out)

My experience:
My rig has a freefly hackey (normal hackey with tuck tab). In about 800 jumps I've never used two motions to extract it. It really doesn't feel any different at pull time, at least for me.

Agreed. Mine has a velcro strip and requires no additional movements (unless I've been doing it wrong for the past 500 jumps...).

[BrianM 1]

I have a monkey fist on one of my rigs. It is similar to a hackey, but it is lighter and firmer. I like it better than hackeys or PVC handles, but don't really find a big difference between any of them (I have all three on different rigs). Never jumped a freefly pud so I can't compare.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[dfairleigh11 0]

Yup, agreed, got the Mirage freefly hackey with the tuck tab when I bought right off student status - at first i didn't use it because I was afraid it would require more pull force or minor hang ups, but after having a half-pulled out PC on a helo jump (from sliding down the door edge to get to the skid), I've never not used it and never had to modify my pull motion or even pull any harder - Mirage did a great job engineering the correct angle on that little thing. I do see the potential to exacerbate a problem like a dislodged main pin - if a floating bag were to create enough drag to pull a regular PC, I don't think these tuck tab hackeys would ever pull - the only angle they pull easily is the normal throw out motion. Regardless, I'm still a fan.

"We'll start the ass kissing with you"

[Joellercoaster 6]

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Plastic:

Cons:
Bulky
Risk of floating handle

The plastic tube handle on my Vector suffers from neither of these things.

It's sewn side-on, directly onto the top of the pilot chute, so it's lower-profile than a hackey.

The only con I do have (have had the container for a couple of seasons now) is that if it somehow gets pushed too far into the BOC pouch, I have to reach in with my fingers, which makes me vervous of getting one stuck in there. I should really stopper the ends.

[edit: My previous rig had a hackey. That was OK, but I genuinely like the orange pipe handle more. No accounting for personal taste ]

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[councilman24 37]

I have, and know other that have put a finger into a plastic handle. Got it off okay but still happens.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 37]

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I do not like hackey-sack handles. They flop around like a limp d...... well, you know.

Nope, don't know. But part of it depend on how they are installed. Some are much less floppy than others. I've never found mine to be floppy. But know and have seen what you mean.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

I do not like hackey-sack handles. They flop around like a limp d...... well, you know.

Nope, don't know. But part of it depend on how they are installed. Some are much less floppy than others. I've never found mine to be floppy. But know and have seen what you mean.

I think it's got a lot to do with regular maintenance...[/angelic]

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[wmw999 2,452]

Something that used to be used was the Wiffle golf ball. Not sure what did away with it, other than its rather inherent geeky look, and the association with golf

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airtwardo 7]

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Something that used to be used was the Wiffle golf ball. Not sure what did away with it, other than its rather inherent geeky look, and the association with golf

Wendy P.

I've seen various 'semi-geeky' things attached, use to be a guy with the head of a rubber chicken attached...looked funny as hell sticking out of the BOC spandex.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[peek 21]

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... put a finger into .... Got it off okay ....

You, me, and Twardo have really made a mess of this thread haven't we?

So is there any young skydiver reading this that does not know why those stuffed pillow-like handles are called "puds"? We might as well just get this over with.

[councilman24 37]

Do you mean because the oringinal name 'dildo' was politically incorrect for the yuppie skydivers?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dragon2 2]

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Something that used to be used was the Wiffle golf ball. Not sure what did away with it, other than its rather inherent geeky look, and the association with golf

Wendy P.

I've seen various 'semi-geeky' things attached, use to be a guy with the head of a rubber chicken attached...looked funny as hell sticking out of the BOC spandex.

I've seen an older guy (American?) with a skulls theme om his rig, including a hard-plastic skull as a hackey

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[councilman24 37]

I've seen those wiffle golf balls break.

That's why we got the people using them to stop around here.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[airtwardo 7]

Hey what was the name of the rig that had a PUD on the bellyband, yanking it pulled the ripcord pin...used a spring-loaded PC?

Wright had one back @ Sparta...in free-fall, it really looked like he was 'Pulling his Pud'

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[djmarvin 2]

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I have, and know other that have put a finger into a plastic handle. Got it off okay but still happens.

I watched a buddy try to get the handle off his thumb for 1,000'.

DJ Marvin
AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E
http://www.theratingscenter.com

[councilman24 37]

The old Rapid transit sytem/mirage had a remote pullout handle. Handle was on a tape lanyard and over on the hip. It didn't use a spring loaded PC. I saw the lanyard and handle knot up with the PC and cause a reserve ride twice.

Hmmm, maybe I've got the PC wrong. But the handle was on a lanyard on the hip and knotted the PC. Still no spring though. Don't remember now whether it was attached to the top or bottom of the PC. It's been 38 edit (28, feels like 38) years since I saw it. Read my sig.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

The old Rapid transit sytem/mirage had a remote pullout handle. Handle was on a tape lanyard and over on the hip. It didn't use a spring loaded PC. I saw the lanyard and handle knot up with the PC and cause a reserve ride twice.

Hmmm, maybe I've got the PC wrong. But the handle was on a lanyard on the hip and knotted the PC. Still no spring though. Don't remember now whether it was attached to the top or bottom of the PC. It's been 38 years since I saw it. Read my sig.

Yeah I remember those...the one I'm thinking about (Centaurus maybe) called it a Twinkie...lotta rings & ropes guys used them in the mid-west.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[councilman24 37]

Hmm, I remember a Twinkie. And I have an old Centarus manual somewhere? But I'm not sure it was centarus. Was it the Shobie rig?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE