storm1977 0 #1 March 30, 2004 I have a question.... I hear so much on the news about unemployment being bad and I hear the Democrats talking about how Bush has lost all these jobs, so I went and searched for the numbers online. I ended up at The Bureau of Labor web page. (Clicky page below) The Facts: Current unemployment rate = 5.6% (Feb 2004) So far in 2004 aprrox = 6%. The 30 year average unemployment rate in the USA is 6.55%. So, we are below average. (Seems good to me) The 10 yr low occurred in 2000 with 4.0%. This is when the DOW (a key market indicator) was trading at/ around 11K and the Nasdaq was at its peak 5K. In other words right before the bubble burst. So, given that there was a Market bubble and then recession due to its bursting and then terror fears after 9/11 and still unemployment in the USA is below the 30 year average.... I don't know, but to me it that seems pretty damn good. Not to mention Home Ownership is at an all time high.... So, why is everone claiming unemployment is so bad??? Chris http://bls.gov/ and the yearly stats: http://bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #2 March 30, 2004 It's only a problem to people without jobs and people who don't like the current administration. Heaven help you if you're both.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #3 March 30, 2004 Did you find anywhere where there were numbers of actual jobs - and compare those numbers with the population? You hear the dems screaming that all these jobs were lost. Noone ever compares the numbers of jobs lost to the number of actual jobs. Or is it that it is more sensational when you say that 501 jobs were lost? 501 form 120,000,000 = 19,999,499 hmmm not so bad now? Besides these figures DO NOT reflect independent contractors that have started working for them selves after they were laid off.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 0 #4 March 30, 2004 just cuz people like to complain about something...hell some of us would rather be unemployed...but I wont get us started on that again_________________________________________ this space for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #5 March 30, 2004 There was almost too much information on this page http://bls.gov/. Search it I am sure you can find what you are looking for!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 March 30, 2004 I'm currently unemployed and still have no problem with the administration. Fact is, unemployment stats are gathered from a different data pool than "job creation" stats. Makes for being able to spin conversations effectively. We'll see what Friday's employment stats have to say...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #7 March 30, 2004 What kills me is that unemployment keeps going down, but you hear... "It isn't going down Fast enough" Fast enough for What????? It is sure as shit better than if Unemployment was going up right? And even if id did go up slightly, it would still be below the 30 year running average. Shit, go to Germany where there unemployment is around 10% and you will see how good we have it here. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #8 March 30, 2004 The 30 year figure is as misleading as the 4.0 figure fom the Tech bubble. The economy has a built-in inherit rate of unemployment that runs about 5.0%(+/- 0.2% or so depending on who you talk to). So on average, fpr the past thirty years we have had a problem with not effectively utilizing our workforce. However, as the current rate of 5.6-6% shows, this is not yet a critical problem. That's not to say we shouldn't take steps to lower the rate, just that's it's not the "sky's falling" scenario that politicians love to spout around election time. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #9 March 30, 2004 How about we stop looking inward on ourselves (United States Citizens, NO we are not "Americans") and look at what the Bush Administration has done to other developing nations. For example, the current administration just imposed huge tax breaks for United States businesses that export a certain amount. What do you think this does to other nations? Well for starters, the WTO (World Trade Organization), which we are a member of, has deemed what they did illegal and has allowed the European Union to impose sanctions on the US beginning with $200 million and progressing each month until these tax cuts are done away with. But what about the less developed nations for which imposing sanctions on the US do no good? Well, the tax break allows the businesses in the US to produce products at a much lower cost. This enables them to sell it cheaper than other nations. Sorry to veer slightly off topic. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #10 March 30, 2004 How about we look at unemployment rates for 2003 of some of our competitors: USA - 5.6% UK - 5.2% France - 8.5% Germany - 9.8% Russia - 7.9% Spain - 11.3% Japan - 5.4% All data from: CIA world Factbook http://www.photius.com/rankings/unemployment_rate_1.html This puts the UK, US, and Japan in the top. Doesn't seem to me we have a big problem, but France, anf Germany do..... Not to mention spain. Looks like Russia is making its way back. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #11 March 30, 2004 QuoteHow about we stop looking inward on ourselves (United States Citizens, NO we are not "Americans") See, if we started doing that, then the whole world would say, "Take a look at yourself and tend to your own." If we were really able to play a free market, and pull out all the stops...oh how I wish...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #12 March 30, 2004 China has been doing the same thing to the US and the rest of the world for quite some time now. It is called capitalism..... That is the way the system works ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #13 March 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow about we stop looking inward on ourselves (United States Citizens, NO we are not "Americans") See, if we started doing that, then the whole world would say, "Take a look at yourself and tend to your own." If we were really able to play a free market, and pull out all the stops...oh how I wish... A true global free market means completely open borders. The real problem with outsourcing etc. is that you and I can't just up and move to India or wherever where wages and cost of living are both significantly lower than they are here. Sure Indian programmers may only demand $11 an hour but 11 an hour there is living fairly well... As long as labor suppliers (you, I and everyone else) are restricted, we will be treated unfairly and global markets will not clear. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #14 March 30, 2004 QuoteThe real problem with outsourcing etc. is that you and I can't just up and move to India or wherever where wages and cost of living are both significantly lower than they are here. Actually the real problem is not outsourcing... but its a great scapegoat. Sure some jobs go overseas, but many many more jobs were lost to increased productivity of the american worker. We're to damn good. But this is leading to increased profits... expansion.... and new jobs being created. And you want this to happen slowly. Fast moving economies are dangerous. Besides... all of the outsorced tech department here... is actually HERE. They just ship every one here from overseas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 March 30, 2004 QuoteHow about we stop looking inward on ourselves (United States Citizens, NO we are not "Americans") and look at what the Bush Administration has done to other developing nations. For example, the current administration just imposed huge tax breaks for United States businesses that export a certain amount... Sorry to veer slightly off topic. Since you already started a separate thread for that topic, I don't think you should hijack this thread to duplicate it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 March 30, 2004 Did you happen to notice that average wages have dropped almost 40% in the past 3 years? Yeah, those engineers and other professionals working at Walmart have jobs....goodie for them. EDIT...received a correction via PM. I simplified my statement making it inaccurate. believe you misquoted that statistic. The average (median, mean?) of new jobs has dropped 40%. That's entirely different. If average wages for the American worker drop 40% we'd have noticed massive deflation by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #17 March 30, 2004 If you really think that engineers are now working for minimum wage at walmart you are crazy..... No, the fact is that based on the Markets during the run up to the bubble burst people were simply over paid. Also in the mid 90 there were IT people making unbelievable money simply because the demand for IT jobs was so high, and there were not many skilled IT proffessionals. Again the salaries decreased because people and companies lost a shit load of money when the economy tanked.... Now, I find it more likely that the "Proffessionals" such as your engineers and doctors are the ones collecting the unemployment not the ones working at McDonalds. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #18 March 30, 2004 You're right, productivity growth is outpacing GDP growth and therefore the rich can get richer without emplying any more grunts, as one grunt now does the work the two previously did. However, outsourcing, or more generally "free trade" is a problem when borders are closed. We free up one side of the equation (corporations, employers) but continue to impose restrictions on others. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #19 March 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow about we stop looking inward on ourselves (United States Citizens, NO we are not "Americans") and look at what the Bush Administration has done to other developing nations. For example, the current administration just imposed huge tax breaks for United States businesses that export a certain amount... Sorry to veer slightly off topic. Since you already started a separate thread for that topic, I don't think you should hijack this thread to duplicate it. i started that thread after i posted my reply, anyways its locked now. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #20 March 30, 2004 QuoteI have a question.... I hear so much on the news about unemployment being bad and I hear the Democrats talking about how Bush has lost all these jobs, so I went and searched for the numbers online. I ended up at The Bureau of Labor web page. (Clicky page below) The Facts: Current unemployment rate = 5.6% (Feb 2004) So far in 2004 aprrox = 6%. The 30 year average unemployment rate in the USA is 6.55%. So, we are below average. (Seems good to me) The 10 yr low occurred in 2000 with 4.0%. This is when the DOW (a key market indicator) was trading at/ around 11K and the Nasdaq was at its peak 5K. In other words right before the bubble burst. So, given that there was a Market bubble and then recession due to its bursting and then terror fears after 9/11 and still unemployment in the USA is below the 30 year average.... I don't know, but to me it that seems pretty damn good. Not to mention Home Ownership is at an all time high.... So, why is everone claiming unemployment is so bad??? Chris http://bls.gov/ and the yearly stats: http://bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm Since you are the master of statistics, you might want to compare the average salaries of the 3 million lost jobs since 2000 with the average salaries of the jobs created since 2000. You might also want to compare the administration's predictions of job creation for, say, 2003, with the actual number of jobs created in 2003 (it's a hard comparison because the actual number created in 2003 was negative).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #21 March 30, 2004 I started a post called Boo SkymonkeyOne, because there is no reason it should have been locked. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #22 March 30, 2004 QuoteNow, I find it more likely that the "Proffessionals" such as your engineers and doctors are the ones collecting the unemployment not the ones working at McDonalds. You're right, but it has an effect. If people are taking jobs they are overqualified for, then the people qualified for those jobs which are now filled are doing the same thing. Shit rolls down hill. Everyone gets knocked down a peg. And another note regarding your numbers. What are they? Are they total number of people not in the work force? Total number currently collecting unemployment? Or new unemployment applicants? I know several people who were doing very well, lost their jobs, collected unemployment while looking for a new one, ran out of unemployment and are now exhausting their savings. They aren't reflected in number representing people collecting unemployment. I also know someone who was forced to sell their house and move in with their parents at age 32. And a highly skilled programmer who is now a bike messenger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #23 March 30, 2004 QuoteYou might also want to compare the administration's predictions of job creation for, say, 2003, Ahhhhhh SPIN Kalend SPIN..... Don't try to change the subject here. I am not here to discuss who said what who predicted what, I am here to show the facts.... The actual number. I know you people like to spin and change the subject, but here it is. Current unemployment levels in the USA are below the 30yr average...PERIOD. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 March 30, 2004 QuoteCurrent unemployment levels in the USA are below the 30yr average...PERIOD. I'll ask again. Based on what? Independent surveys, new unemployment claims, existing unemployment claims? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #25 March 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou might also want to compare the administration's predictions of job creation for, say, 2003, Ahhhhhh SPIN Kalend SPIN..... Don't try to change the subject here. I am not here to discuss who said what who predicted what, I am here to show the facts.... The actual number. I know you people like to spin and change the subject, but here it is. Current unemployment levels in the USA are below the 30yr average...PERIOD. You entitled this thread "Unemployment a problem???" How are my questions not relevant. How are average salaries of new jobs and eliminated jobs not a fact? How is the GWB's President's Report on the Economy 2003, published and printed by the administration, not a fact. How is the huge shortfall in job creation between what GWB told us would happen and what actually happened last year not a fact? My questions are quite pertinent to this thread. You just don't want to answer them because they reveal the ineptitude of the Bush administration on the jobs issue.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
