mailin 0 #1 March 26, 2004 http://www.lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut15.html Land of the Free, Home of the Slave by Steven Greenhut America is such a wonderfully free country that I thoroughly understand why the Bush administration, like the Clinton administration before it, is so eager to take our freedoms and spread them across the globe. Without the U.S. government, backwards peoples will have to labor on in their own delusions, never understanding what true liberty is all about. I am so free. If I want to paint my house, or build a deck out back, or install a new air-conditioning system, I am free to call the building inspector and get his approval first. If I want to put a new toilet in the bathroom, I am free to buy only the low-flow toilets the government approves. I am free to buy a property near the beach, provided the government Coastal Commission approves whatever I want to do with that property. That approval might take decades, and the final thing that I build will be what the commissioners want there, not what I want, but I am free nonetheless. I know I am free because this is America. And America is a free country – the best one in the whole darned world. If you don’t like our freedoms, you should move somewhere else. Any other questions? Unlike those pathetic souls in other less-free and non-free countries, I am free to open my own business, provided I pay my employees the minimum salary demanded by the government, and give them overtime in the exact proportion stated by the government, and offer them breaks that conform exactly to the standards set by government. I can operate my business in complete freedom, provided that I meet every one of the hundreds of pages of air-quality standards promulgated by the state and federal governments. I am free to offer my employees any benefits I choose, provided they are ones approved by the government. I am free to operate my building in compliance with all the building codes and standards defined by the government. I am free to place a sign on that business provided it conforms to the city’s sign ordinance. I am free to hire a lawyer to defend against the government’s charges that I discriminate because I have fewer minority employees than the government says I should have. I am free to pay a $100,000 fine if I complain that a male employee suddenly is showing up in dresses. I am free to have exactly the same number of parking spaces the government says I should have, and to follow the specific standards the government established when it gave me a conditional-use permit. True freedom always has conditions. I am free to vote in elections, provided that the ethnic balance of those elected conforms to the dictates of the Justice Department. I am free to invest money in the stock market provided I don’t take advice from anyone who knows any real information about the stock. If I do, I am free to spend several years behind bars. I am free to pay half my earnings in taxes. You know what they say, taxes are what we pay for a civilized society. Civilized and free. What more could a person ask for? I am free to get to work on government-built and managed roads, in a car that meets government safety and pollution standards. I am free to pay hundreds of dollars a year in car taxes and gas taxes. I am free to borrow money from a bank to pay these taxes provided that the lender meets every government code and offers special terms to those people the government says should get special terms. I am free to send my children to the government-run schools, where they are taught whatever the government wants them to learn. I am free to raise them exactly as the government demands, or watch child protective services take them from me and give them to a foster parent. I am free to get on an airplane and fly anywhere I want in this free country, provided that I let a government employee search my stuff and even my person. I am free to tell the federal government exactly how much I earn and let agents audit me and take me off to jail if I fail to tell them every source of income. I am free to take any drug I need or please provided it is sold by a pharmacist or a drug store. I am free to work in any sort of profession, provided that I gain the proper government-granted licenses. If I work in manufacturing, I am free to give a union a lot of money or am free to find another job. I am free to hand over my property and take a pittance in return for it when the government uses eminent domain on behalf of a politically well-connected developer. I am free to have a dog provided I buy him a government-issued license. I am not free to own a ferret, although in truth I hate those nasty little critters and don’t really want one. I am free to let a police officer search my car for any reason. I am free to let federal agents search my property, tap my phone lines, look at my library records. I am free to live my life in total freedom provided that all my choices are approved by government, all my earnings are taxed by government, and all my moves are subject to close examination by government. No wonder the Iraqi people are so eager for their American overseers to show them how this freedom thing is done. September 18, 2003 Steven Greenhut (send him mail) is a senior editorial writer and columnist for the Orange County Register.Arianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #2 March 26, 2004 That's ridiculous. Freedom does not mean not having consequences or responsibilities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #3 March 26, 2004 Sadly, i have to agree with you! America is still a great country, but the God Damned government is destroying that and will eventually, sooner than later I am afraid, turn what was once the greatest country on the face of the earth into a socialist/communist, police state, third world country shithole! They have already made great strides toward this, as is proven in your post. May God damn this goverment to HELL!-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #4 March 26, 2004 >> Freedom does not mean not having consequences or responsibilities. << I agree. >>That's ridiculous.<< I am not sure I agree. You and I very often reach opposite conclusions based on very similar political beliefs, a fact I sometimes find fascinating (other times it just annoys me ). Anyway, even a conservative / libertarian or whatever I am recognizes the need for some sort of check on anarchy. But I think the article is really just a rant about how we have too many checks on anarchy now. I would tend to agree with that message. Does that mean I think we should have none? No. But I would draw the line at a different place than most. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #5 March 26, 2004 ya, I'm not saying I agreee with it or not... I think its very one sided, but he does have some good points. Air quality standards are a necessary thing I would think... JenniferArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 March 26, 2004 QuoteThat's ridiculous. Freedom does not mean not having consequences or responsibilities. An Austin Power's quote springs to mind here - anyone have it verbatim? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #7 March 26, 2004 Obviously somebody's glass is half empty. Go spend a little time in some countries where things arent so free and you will appreciate the small amount your required to pay and put up with to live in America. Its not a perfect system. But in my own humble and well traveled opinion its much better than most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #8 March 26, 2004 Hope this wasn't directed at me.... perhaps you didn't really read it. its an article that was written by someone other than me... and then my post "I'm not saying I agree with it..." Jen edited to add: I think people are missing the point of the article...Arianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #9 March 26, 2004 If people do not like it in America, pack up your shit and move somewhere else. I am so sick of people bitching about America and taxes and everything else. If you want to do something then shut up and either do it or get the fuck out. This is not directed at Malian Just all the people that like to make waves but do not a dam thing to make America a better place. I love my country, my freedoms and i support the system. I have my issues with some things but i dont bitch because i have no need to run for President or any other political office. I enjoy my life just the way it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 March 26, 2004 QuoteIf people do not like it in America, pack up your shit and move somewhere else. Or how about doing the American thing and changing the system. That's what being an American is about. It's about changing things for the better, not running away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
samhussey 0 #11 March 26, 2004 QuoteI am free to live my life in total freedom provided that all my choices are approved by government, all my earnings are taxed by government, and all my moves are subject to close examination by government. No wonder the Iraqi people are so eager for their American overseers to show them how this freedom thing is done. Hey, at least you can openly write something like this and then not be murdered by your own government. Edit to add: Poking at the author, not you! The insinuation that the Iraqis were better off under Saddam always gets my back up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #12 March 26, 2004 QuoteObviously somebody's glass is half empty. Go spend a little time in some countries where things arent so free and you will appreciate the small amount your required to pay and put up with to live in America. Its not a perfect system. But in my own humble and well traveled opinion its much better than most. Have you been to most? The Netherlands, for example (makes the USA look like a police state). I agree with the article 99%. In fact the article was incorrect when it stated that you can take any drug you like as long as it's sold by a drug store or pharmacist. They tried that with marijuana for cancer and glaucoma sufferers, and Ashcroft stopped it. So it has to be a drug approved by the government and sold by.... etc. etc.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malfunction 0 #13 March 26, 2004 QuoteI am free to get to work on government-built and managed roads, in a car that meets government safety and pollution standards. I am free to pay hundreds of dollars a year in car taxes and gas taxes. So long and the automobile is insured, and the insurance is provided on demand to the government. I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #14 March 26, 2004 I didn't mean it toward you. I was talking about the author. I haven't been to the netherlands and wasn't trying to imply that I have been everywhere. I was trying to simply say I don't feel we are slaves and I don't think its all that bad here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #15 March 26, 2004 Or how about doing the American thing and changing the system. That's what being an American is about. It's about changing things for the better, not running away. *** What would you change?, short version, what are you willing to do to make those changes happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #16 March 26, 2004 QuoteOr how about doing the American thing and changing the system. That's what being an American is about. It's about changing things for the better, not running away. *** What would you change?, short version, what are you willing to do to make those changes happen? 1. Constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget. Then the government couldn't pass on the costs of its excesses to our children and grandchildren. Taxes would reflect the true cost of government interference. 2. Not needed if (1) happens. 3. See (2) etc.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #17 March 26, 2004 That would be a great start, i agree with you 100%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malfunction 0 #18 March 26, 2004 Theoretically, that is a great start. However, one simple thing is overlooked... WE DON'T RUN THE GOVERNMENT NOR DO WE HAVE A SAY IN HOW THE GOVERNMENT IS RAN. Sure, we do the American thing and go to the polls every 4 (if you are active like me, then every 2) years, we get the feeling like our votes count, but it is the Electoral College that ACTUALLY ELECTS THE PRESIDENT. We feel we are being patriotic by writing to our congressman saying things like "Don't let that ridiculous bill making self mutilation in Georgia illegal!" but it is the Special Interest Groups that have the ultimate pull. If balancing the stupid fucking budget was THAT easy to do, it would have been done, but that would mean the Special Interest groups would not be getting KickBacks on the Government spending, thus would limit the bankroll of the congressman, so it would never pass. Yeah, it is a great system and a great idea, but somewhere along the lines, the idea got lost and turned into what we have now. I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #19 March 26, 2004 Yeah, it is a great system and a great idea, but somewhere along the lines, the idea got lost and turned into what we have now. *** That is my point all these people have great ideas but what are they doing to make"shit" happen...Nothing. Unless they run for congress or something it is just talk on a website. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 March 26, 2004 QuoteYeah, it is a great system and a great idea, but somewhere along the lines, the idea got lost and turned into what we have now. *** That is my point all these people have great ideas but what are they doing to make"shit" happen...Nothing. Unless they run for congress or something it is just talk on a website. I vote twice a year. I contribute money to candidates. I work on campaigns. I belong to organizations with lobying power. I communicate with my representatives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malfunction 0 #21 March 26, 2004 QuoteI vote twice a year. I contribute money to candidates. I work on campaigns. I belong to organizations with lobying power. I communicate with my representatives. Just like me Philly, but what do you have to show for it? Have any of YOUR ideas made it through congress? Has YOUR congressman done anything for you? Mine certainly hasn't. In fact, recently he started a bill in congress that was directly OPPOSITE of the farm subsidy he promised while campaigning. And THAT is my point. We, the people of the United States Of America, have absolutely NO voice towards what happens once our representatives leave the state and constituents behind. We can cry, moan, complain, write letter, make calls all we want, but it is the Special Interest groups that have this country in a strangle-hold. I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #22 March 26, 2004 QuoteThe Netherlands, for example (makes the USA look like a police state). This is the second time in as many days I've seen you post something to this effect. What specifically are you talking about (and don't validate it with the drug equation)?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #23 March 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe Netherlands, for example (makes the USA look like a police state). This is the second time in as many days I've seen you post something to this effect. What specifically are you talking about (and don't validate it with the drug equation)? You'll never understand, your mind-set precludes it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #24 March 26, 2004 >We, the people of the United States Of America, have absolutely NO > voice towards what happens once our representatives leave the > state and constituents behind. Us californians often vote directly for new laws, measures and taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 March 26, 2004 Why bitch about special interest groups? There are only two kinds. The first is a 100% grassroots group that is nothing without its members. NRA comes to mind. The second kind is a lobby front for people with too much money: the type owned and operated by George Soros and other gazillionaires. Which do you have a problem with?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites