PhillyKev 0 #26 March 26, 2004 Quote>We, the people of the United States Of America, have absolutely NO > voice towards what happens once our representatives leave the > state and constituents behind. Us californians often vote directly for new laws, measures and taxes. Same here. Ballot initiatives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #27 March 26, 2004 >There are only two kinds. The first is a 100% grassroots group that >is nothing without its members. NRA comes to mind. The second > kind is a lobby front for people with too much money: the type > owned and operated by George Soros and other gazillionaires. Ha! Just like there are only two kinds of people - rich old white republicans who want to screw the poor and restore slavery, and impoverished gay democrats who want the government to provide them with free color TV's so they can watch child porn. There is every kind of PAC out there. In the environmental arena there is Greenpeace, a loony environmental protection organization that often does more harm than good. There is Earth First! which is a bunch of thugs. There is the nature conservancy, which has done more good than 10 Sierra Clubs. The nature conservancy has a buttload of money on paper since they buy sensitive (i.e. interesting) land and allow only low-impact development on it, which makes it even more valuable. There are more politically minded groups like Surfrider Foundation and the Sierra Club. Surfrider is more grass-roots than the Sierra Club. There's the Audubon Society, which has more money than the Sierra Club but doesn't get as political. Whether or not any of these falls into the Soros category depends mainly on your political leanings, I think. Developers often think every environmental organization from the Audubon Society to Earth First! are secretly financed by leftist anti-government commies. Environmentalists consider the Sierra Club part of a grassroots environmental movement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malfunction 0 #28 March 26, 2004 QuoteUs californians often vote directly for new laws, measures and taxes I admire that. I am all for that, I just wish it was done on a NATIONAL level. Afterall, it is the folks sitting in the White House, miles and miles of seperation between them and the people the new laws, measures and taxes will directly effect, yet they have no clue what we want, demand or expect of them. QuoteWhy bitch about special interest groups? Because they are the ones that directly influence the decisions and policies made by not only our President, but our Congressmen too. Everything passes through them, and I invite you to a senate meeting in the state of Iowa. There are literally people that do not belong on the senate floor and are not part of the offices involved, whispering and nodding at the Senators and Reps when it is decision time. Companies like ENRON and MICROSOFT, associations like the LAWYERS BAR ASSOCIATION, NRA and Big Tobacco bank roll these politician's campaigns, and during the term in office if elected, are untouchable. Oil companies have Presidents and other politicians in their pockets; engineering firms own Vice President Cheany and get kickbacks when jobs are shipped overseas to workers who will work for pennies on the dollar. Hey, it saves the firms money and therefore NAFTA must be a good thing, right? In the mean time, we are giving money to Iraq, Malaysia, Haiti, Japan, Germany, and 155 other countries so the Corporate Owners in America can get richer, and thus the budget will NEVER be balanced if the benefit is going to private citizens rather than the source of the contribution. QuoteWhich do you have a problem with? Both! They take the decisions out of the hands of the people and put it DIRECTLY into the hands of the members. NO OFFENSE MEANT TO ANYONE WHO MAY BELONG TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING, I AM USING THESE AS SUPPORT ARGUMENTS! Stats for you: Who backed Clinton from 92-00? The LAWYERS BAR ASSOCIATION. In the 8 years Clinton was in office, law suits tripled across America and the average payout doubled while the number of frivolous law suits (like $1.3m against McDonalds for a cup of coffee) being thrown out of court diminished. Divorce rates went from 15-20% to nearly 50% because it was easier to get a divorce approved from the courts. The "No Fault Clause" was introduced for the first time, and awards of alimony, child support and other ex-spouse maintainence grew and grew until finally it has plateaued. Tell me the BAR ASSOCIATION had nothing to do with that. Who backed Bush Sr.? Big Tobacco. How often did taxes on tobacco raise from 88-92? Once. But every other tax increased multiple times, including oil. Tell me that Big Tobacco and the seven leading producers didn't tell BUSH not to raise the taxes on their product? After Bush left office, Clinton raised the taxes on Tobacco. The price went from $1.50-$2.25 per pack to nearly $5.00 now. That is a jump of over 100% for the mathmetically challenged. Yeah, Bush Jr. is raising the taxes too, but he isn't backed by Big Tobacco. One of the main reasons we went to the middle east in '91 wasn't to rescue Kuwait - afterall, Hussein was still OUR boy then. It was because he was seizing control of the oil, and Bush Sr. couldn't have that... afterall, he had/has ownership in nearly 1/3 of the oil fields there. Who is currently backing BUSH Jr.? Cheaney's engineering company (contributed nearly 1/4 of Bush's campaign money in '00 and as a result got the contract to rebuild WTC) and ENRON (who's CEO's stole millions from retired and soon to be retired members of America and got off scott free while the courts gave the maximum punishment to Martha Stuart who barely made $50,000). Not to mention Clear Channel Communications who owns most all the mega-media outlets, including bulletin boards, radio stations and the music video stations on cable and satellite. When the decision was made to crack down on the improper use of media outlets (like Janet and Howard), CCC was allowed to buy out any company that could not meet the newly defined FCC fines and thus grow even bigger. That is, if I have ever seen one, a kickback. Most states have speed limits over 65 now, am I right? Iowa is still 65 because the people that make the bill are required by the special intrest groups (such as Construction Unions) to place an addendum that stats if the speed limit is raised, they have SOLE INTEREST in repairing the roads. Sure, the state senate keeps shooting down the bill, but it is the fact that the hidden bill has to be approved at the same time and it is at the request (more like demand) of the special interest groups. Special Interest groups dont necessarily have to fall into the two categories. Special Interest Groups are defined as any group that has interest in any decision made by any decision maker and can influence that decision. At least, that is the general concensus of 90% of the Government, Politics and Civilization instructors I have ever met, and it is my stance too. I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #29 March 27, 2004 QuoteIf people do not like it in America, pack up your shit and move somewhere else. I am so sick of people bitching about America and taxes and everything else. If you want to do something then shut up and either do it or get the fuck out. I cringe everytime someone says something like this. It's one of the most un-american sentiments I've ever heard. IMO, far too many americans love to spout it. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #30 March 27, 2004 Quote>We, the people of the United States Of America, have absolutely NO > voice towards what happens once our representatives leave the > state and constituents behind. >Us californians often vote directly for new laws, measures and taxes. ----------------------------------------------------------- and then alot of you decide that "wow, there are too many laws that we dont like now, lets move to another state"........then you decide" hey, we think there should be a law for this or that here, there isnt enough regulation of ___________" and piss off the people who are happy and have been living that way since they have been there before you came. this is not directed at you, i used the word "you" in the same context as you used "us".( well, unless "you" personally have purchased property there, moved and tried to enact new laws there) this is a direct refection of what i saw when i visited family in idaho last year. it seems people around the northern idaho area (coeur d'alene, spokane washington area, etc) feel this way. i had to hear for 10 days how "those bastards in california screw up their own state so bad they want to move out of it and come here, then they buy property here, try to get in office and try to screw up our state by making more laws ......go t f back home and leave us alone. we were happy the way we have been living way before you came here." _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydyvr 0 #31 March 27, 2004 QuoteQuote>We, the people of the United States Of America, have absolutely NO > voice towards what happens once our representatives leave the > state and constituents behind. >Us californians often vote directly for new laws, measures and taxes. and then alot of you decide that "wow, there are too many laws that we dont like now, lets move to another state"........ Welcome to Colorado . . . . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #32 March 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf people do not like it in America, pack up your shit and move somewhere else. I am so sick of people bitching about America and taxes and everything else. If you want to do something then shut up and either do it or get the fuck out. I cringe everytime someone says something like this. It's one of the most un-american sentiments I've ever heard. IMO, far too many americans love to spout it. I don't think so. I'd agree had the statement been simply "Get the fuck out", but it wasn't. It was quit your bitching, do something about it, or get out. A nation of whiners gets us nothing, a nation of activists on the other hand, has the power to change things. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vonSanta 0 #33 March 28, 2004 I'm free to kill people, but only as long as the gov't tells me to. Heh, this dude should get a job as an air warning siren thing. He's free to do that, if the gov't approves What a whine. Every little tribal group that has ever existed has had rules- perhaps not codified, but there nonetheless. You'll find "rules" of acceptable behaviour in just about any social species. This dude should go live with some wolves for a while assert his freedom there. A few bites to the arse should convince 'im that yeah, being a human may suck, but at leasst we can discuss the rules Seriously though, there has to be some checks and balances. Are there too many in the US? Dunno, haven't lived there. We could do with a lot less in this nanny state, but I'm fed and safe and the people representing me generally don't go around killing or torturing others, so it's really a 'luxury' problem, not something to get upset about. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #34 March 28, 2004 QuoteI'm free to kill people, but only as long as the gov't tells me to. Heh, this dude should get a job as an air warning siren thing. He's free to do that, if the gov't approves What a whine. Every little tribal group that has ever existed has had rules- perhaps not codified, but there nonetheless. You'll find "rules" of acceptable behaviour in just about any social species. This dude should go live with some wolves for a while assert his freedom there. A few bites to the arse should convince 'im that yeah, being a human may suck, but at leasst we can discuss the rules Seriously though, there has to be some checks and balances. Are there too many in the US? Dunno, haven't lived there. We could do with a lot less in this nanny state, but I'm fed and safe and the people representing me generally don't go around killing or torturing others, so it's really a 'luxury' problem, not something to get upset about. Can you imagine your government setting up a "Committee on UnDanish Actvities"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Luv2Fall 0 #35 March 28, 2004 I remember saying something to that effect concerning the First Amendent a while back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #36 March 28, 2004 probably, good Steven Greenhut once had a problem with government? this article is not new. this article says nothing special. this simply is democracy with its own two sides. you cannot love it and hate it, but have to arrange yourself with it. normal way to exist in a democracy. nothing outstanding. Mr. Greenhut is Jewish? (to avoid any misunderstanding: i'm Jewish (my grandmother is born in St. Petersburg, Russian Jewish) dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vonSanta 0 #37 March 29, 2004 Quote Can you imagine your government setting up a "Committee on UnDanish Actvities"? Nah, witch hunts aren't that common here. With our rather diverse political landscape, it'd be pretty hard to define un Danish. Your point is well made, though. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #38 March 29, 2004 QuoteHave you been to most? The Netherlands, for example (makes the USA look like a police state). I agree with the article 99%. if you like the Netherlands so much why are you here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 3ringheathen 0 #39 March 29, 2004 Quote if you like the Netherlands so much why are you here? Potential. This countries got potential. Someday it could actually be the land of the free that people seem to think it is. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #40 March 29, 2004 QuotePotential. This countries got potential. yes it does but the reason I asked him is he moved here. If he wants to do drugs he can live there. If we can keep courts from making law we'd all be better off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 28 #41 March 29, 2004 stopped reading in the first half - what a humongous heap of whiney BS!The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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skydyvr 0 #31 March 27, 2004 QuoteQuote>We, the people of the United States Of America, have absolutely NO > voice towards what happens once our representatives leave the > state and constituents behind. >Us californians often vote directly for new laws, measures and taxes. and then alot of you decide that "wow, there are too many laws that we dont like now, lets move to another state"........ Welcome to Colorado . . . . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #32 March 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf people do not like it in America, pack up your shit and move somewhere else. I am so sick of people bitching about America and taxes and everything else. If you want to do something then shut up and either do it or get the fuck out. I cringe everytime someone says something like this. It's one of the most un-american sentiments I've ever heard. IMO, far too many americans love to spout it. I don't think so. I'd agree had the statement been simply "Get the fuck out", but it wasn't. It was quit your bitching, do something about it, or get out. A nation of whiners gets us nothing, a nation of activists on the other hand, has the power to change things. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #33 March 28, 2004 I'm free to kill people, but only as long as the gov't tells me to. Heh, this dude should get a job as an air warning siren thing. He's free to do that, if the gov't approves What a whine. Every little tribal group that has ever existed has had rules- perhaps not codified, but there nonetheless. You'll find "rules" of acceptable behaviour in just about any social species. This dude should go live with some wolves for a while assert his freedom there. A few bites to the arse should convince 'im that yeah, being a human may suck, but at leasst we can discuss the rules Seriously though, there has to be some checks and balances. Are there too many in the US? Dunno, haven't lived there. We could do with a lot less in this nanny state, but I'm fed and safe and the people representing me generally don't go around killing or torturing others, so it's really a 'luxury' problem, not something to get upset about. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #34 March 28, 2004 QuoteI'm free to kill people, but only as long as the gov't tells me to. Heh, this dude should get a job as an air warning siren thing. He's free to do that, if the gov't approves What a whine. Every little tribal group that has ever existed has had rules- perhaps not codified, but there nonetheless. You'll find "rules" of acceptable behaviour in just about any social species. This dude should go live with some wolves for a while assert his freedom there. A few bites to the arse should convince 'im that yeah, being a human may suck, but at leasst we can discuss the rules Seriously though, there has to be some checks and balances. Are there too many in the US? Dunno, haven't lived there. We could do with a lot less in this nanny state, but I'm fed and safe and the people representing me generally don't go around killing or torturing others, so it's really a 'luxury' problem, not something to get upset about. Can you imagine your government setting up a "Committee on UnDanish Actvities"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #35 March 28, 2004 I remember saying something to that effect concerning the First Amendent a while back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #36 March 28, 2004 probably, good Steven Greenhut once had a problem with government? this article is not new. this article says nothing special. this simply is democracy with its own two sides. you cannot love it and hate it, but have to arrange yourself with it. normal way to exist in a democracy. nothing outstanding. Mr. Greenhut is Jewish? (to avoid any misunderstanding: i'm Jewish (my grandmother is born in St. Petersburg, Russian Jewish) dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #37 March 29, 2004 Quote Can you imagine your government setting up a "Committee on UnDanish Actvities"? Nah, witch hunts aren't that common here. With our rather diverse political landscape, it'd be pretty hard to define un Danish. Your point is well made, though. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #38 March 29, 2004 QuoteHave you been to most? The Netherlands, for example (makes the USA look like a police state). I agree with the article 99%. if you like the Netherlands so much why are you here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #39 March 29, 2004 Quote if you like the Netherlands so much why are you here? Potential. This countries got potential. Someday it could actually be the land of the free that people seem to think it is. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #40 March 29, 2004 QuotePotential. This countries got potential. yes it does but the reason I asked him is he moved here. If he wants to do drugs he can live there. If we can keep courts from making law we'd all be better off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #41 March 29, 2004 stopped reading in the first half - what a humongous heap of whiney BS!The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
