S/L PCA via Hand deploy PC

[stratostar 5]

Anyone here ever or currently use/used a S/L PCA set up on a hand deploy PC... In other words for normal free fall students you use it as a normal HD in BOC,.

But for S/L you use a velcro PCA (pilot chute assist) and pack the HDPC as you would a PUD PC in side the container, to be extracted via the velcro once the S/L pin is pulled.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Slurp56 0]

Did you have a question about the setup, or did you just want to know if any of us have used them?

________________________________________
I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw.

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, I have worked with that sort of system, but consider it to be "doing it the hard way."

That system is worse than Instructor Assisted Deployment because it allows students too much time to tumble, grab static-lines, etc.

I know that Americans hate to hear this ... but IAD WAS invented in the USA and perfected in Canada.

A far simpler method is for the instructor to hold the student's pilot chute - as the student exits - and toss it into clean air.
When students transition to freefall, they should start by tossing a regular hand-deploy pilot chute from a standard BOC.
Any other method adds unnecesarry complications to rigging, packing training, etc.

Rob Warner
CSPA Instructor since 1982, starting with military-surplus static-lines, progressing to IAD Para-Commanders, then IAD squares
PFF Instructor
Strong Tandem Examiner
FAA Master Rigger
etc.

[stratostar 5]

Yes I was wanting to know who has used them, I've seen photos (I think) of it being used, but cazn't remember anyone using it.

And Rob, dispite how you maybe right and all, let's take the IAD off the table, not going to switch the whole dz I's over to that, it only add's one more additional problem to the problem...

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 643]

If IAD is out of the question, then you should stick with the most reliable version of static-line: direct bag.

[stratostar 5]

Well I said that too, but there are two issues with that, 1. Db beats the shit out of the side of the plane & the new 4k paint job... 2. some people truly believe a HD PC on a first free fall and the like (lowtimers) is sport death and you'll start killing students. (this is the real issue at hand or root of the problem)

Now I asked the question because, in my mind 1. I've trained and used HD PC's for (IDK) 10 yrs? or so in both AFF & S/L progression in a lot of states & DZ's (most used DB & HD) and low and behold we didn't kill any students doing so.... 2. Replacing all RC's w/spring loaded PC's with HD PC's and a PCA attachment would work the same way without the hassle of springload PC's and ripcords located in the BOC location being used. 3. Why not get students trained on what they will be using in a short time anyway, it's only a minor change in gear and not a lot of expense to do, no bag damage on the AC paint if droping S/L, and it's still safe for S/L and freefall students in regards to using HD PC 's for S/L progression Clear & Pull's and up, and is pretty much a common thing in the industry for IAD & S/L.

(the only real change is using HD in instead of Springloaded PC's via Static lined PCA method of deployment or regular BOC for FF)

Now I've never personally seen it done (S/L PCA on HD) but it seems like I've seen photos of it? I can't think of any reason it would any more dangerous or risk then an old school Spring PCA S/L jump... However there maybe people who can provide some real world reasons as to why it's not safe to do in rigging, training, general safety, rate of malfuction.....Ect

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 643]

If you look in Eric Fradet's rigging textbook, you will see pictures of a European version of IAD that includes a static-line with a Spandex "sock" on the end to contain the pilot-chute.
The Spandex "sock" would do less damage - to paint - than a direct bag.
It looks silly to me, but several Europeans swear by it!

[riggerrob 643]

Face the facts!
Static-lines are in-compatible with freshly-painted airplanes!

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, I worked with that sort of system for one summer. One of my few memories of that summer involves a student who was just not "getting it" in ground school.
He back-looped off the step and entangled with his main, preventing it from fully inflating.
At least he had the good sense(/) to pull his RSL to open his reserve.
Then he landed his round reserve in tall trees off the end of the runway.
At sunset I was hacking away at a tree - with a dull axe - in a forest infested with Lyme-disease carrying ticks.
I had to sew three patches on the main - for which I never got paid.
The last gasp was when they DZO got angry at me for telling him that the holes in the round reserve were far too big for me to patch and he would have to mail it back to the factory for repairs!

All this misery could have been prevented by a quicker-opening direct bag (S/L) or IAD.

[billvon 3,070]

Yes, that's the system I learned on. (ROL instead of BOC but same S/L PCA setup.)

[chuckbrown 0]

Quote

Yes, I have worked with that sort of system, but consider it to be "doing it the hard way."

That system is worse than Instructor Assisted Deployment because it allows students too much time to tumble, grab static-lines, etc.

I know that Americans hate to hear this ... but IAD WAS invented in the USA and perfected in Canada.

A far simpler method is for the instructor to hold the student's pilot chute - as the student exits - and toss it into clean air.
When students transition to freefall, they should start by tossing a regular hand-deploy pilot chute from a standard BOC.Any other method adds unnecesarry complications to rigging, packing training, etc.

Rob Warner
CSPA Instructor since 1982, starting with military-surplus static-lines, progressing to IAD Para-Commanders, then IAD squares
PFF Instructor
Strong Tandem Examiner
FAA Master Rigger
etc.

That's how we run our IAD program.