Pilot openings

[starmey 0]

I have recently bought a Pilot 210 as my main canopy. I have jumped it 25-30 times and every time that it opens the front corners are folded over causing the end cells to not inflate until I wait or shake the front risers. Is this normal for the Pilot? I love the way it flies and the opening are nice and soft. I have let different people pack it and also have tried to stuffing the nose different depths while packing.

Just wondering if others are experiencing the same thing.

[sundevil777 102]

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I have recently bought a Pilot 210 as my main canopy. I have jumped it 25-30 times and every time that it opens the front corners are folded over causing the end cells to not inflate until I wait or shake the front risers. Is this normal for the Pilot? I love the way it flies and the opening are nice and soft. I have let different people pack it and also have tried to stuffing the nose different depths while packing.

Just wondering if others are experiencing the same thing.

I also have a 210, same thing for my dozen or so jumps on it.

I figure if that is what it takes to get comfortable openings, I'm OK with that. Of course I realize that isn't really why it is that way, but whatever works...

Don't bother stuffing the nose away, and it is called, "end cell closure".

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jakee 1,489]

It's normal, or at least not uncommon, for several canopy designs. It's not a big deal at all.

Best (IMO) to get into the habit of using rear risers rather than fronts to open them up though, it'll set you up better for when you start doing bigger formations and need to be ready to make avoidance turns straight after opening.

Also agreed on no need to stuff the nose, or indeed use any special tricks whatsoever to soften the opening. It's a Pilot, it's gonna be soft.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JohnRich 4]

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I have recently bought a Pilot 210 as my main canopy...

Brand new, or used?

[riggerrob 643]

closed end cells are no big deal, in fact, CEC are the norm with several models of canopies. There are just a sign of slow openings because it takes a while for air to flow side-ways from the center cell to the end cells.

This is the first time I have ever heard of using front risers to open CEC.
I used to pull both steering toggles - deep - to encourage the tail to grab more air, spread and help inflate the end cells.
The last few years, I found it quicker and easier to pull both rear risers into a partial flare to encourage end cells to open.
Even with tandems, I pull rear risers to encourage end cells to open. Rear riser flares are easy with light students on the front, but it can be like bending crowbars with fat students!
Hah!
Hah!

[Dittodogg 0]

I have a fusion 210 that does the same thing. I just grab the rears as it is opening and have never had an issue. I asked my rigger about the slow soft openings.... and he replied " Its better than the opposite"

Team Dirty Sanchez #455,
Muff Brother #4197,
SCR #14847, DPH -8,
Dude #5150

[starmey 0]

I just shake the front risers or just wait it out. Next flight I will try pulling both rear risers and see if it makes a difference. The only time that the end cells being closed worries me is when one stays closed longer then the other and I go into a turn.

I always use the rear risers to get me heading toward the landing zone or to conduct any avoidance maneuvers I need to do. I never un-stow my toggles until the end cells are both inflated and my slider is stowed.

Thanks for all the input and responses.

[starmey 0]

It was brand new.

[popsjumper 2]

Get off the fronts and use the rears for this....there are other reasons, as mentioned already, for using rears at opening. Why switch back and forth?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[blondeskydiver 0]

I get it all the time on my new Pilot 150. It scary, but doesn't seem to be a big deal. I use my rear risers or wait it out and it seems to fix itself. I thought maybe I was pushing in the nose too much, but who knows. I have no complaints cause they are usually soft slow openings and I pull at 4k, so slow is good.

[Dano302 0]

That's strange because I don't think the end cells on my pilot 150 have ever been closed on opening. I was getting line twists fairly often until I stopped pushing the nose in. The sabre 2 170 I was flying before the pilot would have closed end cells on 90% of openings, but immediatly open after a quick flare.

[darkwing 5]

Don't stuff the nose at all. Pilots are sweet. In several hundred Pilot jumps I don't recall ever having end cell closures. If I did, on any canopy, I'd use rear risers or brakes to fix it.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[ChrisL 2]

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I have recently bought a Pilot 210 as my main canopy. I have jumped it 25-30 times and every time that it opens the front corners are folded over causing the end cells to not inflate until I wait or shake the front risers. Is this normal for the Pilot? I love the way it flies and the opening are nice and soft. I have let different people pack it and also have tried to stuffing the nose different depths while packing.

Just wondering if others are experiencing the same thing.

Used to happen with my pilot 210. Doesnt happen at all on my Pilot 188.
Possibly a higher wing loading inflates it more quickly. Either way it was never a problem. Couple pulls on the rear risers and they popped right out.

__

My mighty steed

[millertime24 8]

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I have recently bought a Pilot 210 as my main canopy. I have jumped it 25-30 times and every time that it opens the front corners are folded over causing the end cells to not inflate until I wait or shake the front risers. Is this normal for the Pilot? I love the way it flies and the opening are nice and soft. I have let different people pack it and also have tried to stuffing the nose different depths while packing.

Just wondering if others are experiencing the same thing.

Used to happen with my pilot 210. Doesnt happen at all on my Pilot 188.
Possibly a higher wing loading inflates it more quickly. Either way it was never a problem. Couple pulls on the rear risers and they popped right out.

I was kind of thinking the same thing here. I fly a Pilot 150 loaded up to about 1.35 and its never had closed endcells in the past 50 or so jumps Ive put on it. My Sabre2 170 on the other hand... Every time.

Muff #5048

[blondeskydiver 0]

Used to happen with my pilot 210. Doesnt happen at all on my Pilot 188.
Possibly a higher wing loading inflates it more quickly. Either way it was never a problem. Couple pulls on the rear risers and they popped right out.

[jrjny 0]

In the same boat as you but no end-cell closures on opening. Seems to take 5-600ft to open fully from the time my pilot chute is out. New canopy, too. Soft opening each time as well.

[ChrisL 2]

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Used to happen with my pilot 210. Doesnt happen at all on my Pilot 188.
Possibly a higher wing loading inflates it more quickly. Either way it was never a problem. Couple pulls on the rear risers and they popped right out.

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You might have something there. Mine is a Pilot 150 and I'm 135+Gear, so 145 at most.

[pilot-one 0]

Although end cell closure is no big deal it is not normal for the Pilot. I have hundreds of jumps on different Pilots and have never experienced an end cell closure. All of mine have been loaded over 1.3 so maybe the light wing loading is a factor.
Did you contact Aerodyne? They are awesome about fixing problems if you're not happy.

[Joellercoaster 6]

I'd agree with what the rest have said. 4 sizes of Pilot loaded between 1.0 and 1.7, definitely less end cell closure as they get smaller.

Not that it was a problem at the bigger sizes, though. It's such a stable canopy, once (when I was very very inexperienced, as opposed to now when I'm just somewhat inexperienced) I made it into the pattern before noticing.

An instructor pointed out that had I been doing practice flares up high after opening as part of my routine, which I should, that would never have happened. I have ever since.

Also: I still love my Pilot.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[AllisonH 0]

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You might have something there. Mine is a Pilot 150 and I'm 135+Gear, so 145 at most.

Off topic, but you might want to weight yourself with all your gear on - you may be surprised. I'd guess that if you're 135 without gear you're closer to 160 with. My rig alone (with Pilot 117 and Optimum 126 in it) weighs 20 pounds and the rest of my gear adds another 5.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I have recently bought a Pilot 210 as my main canopy. I have jumped it 25-30 times and every time that it opens the front corners are folded over causing the end cells to not inflate until I wait or shake the front risers. Is this normal for the Pilot? I love the way it flies and the opening are nice and soft. I have let different people pack it and also have tried to stuffing the nose different depths while packing.

Just wondering if others are experiencing the same thing.

I used to have a Pilot150 from 2004. Its opened very nice without end cell closures. My WL was 1.3-1.4.

[blondeskydiver 0]

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You might have something there. Mine is a Pilot 150 and I'm 135+Gear, so 145 at most.

Off topic, but you might want to weight yourself with all your gear on - you may be surprised. I'd guess that if you're 135 without gear you're closer to 160 with. My rig alone (with Pilot 117 and Optimum 126 in it) weighs 20 pounds and the rest of my gear adds another 5.

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Will do. Now that I'm looking at my numbers, I'm probably more than 1-1. Either way - it's a GREAT canopy and I love it. The end closures is probably due to me pushing in the nose, and I'll do that less going forward. I come from a Sabre1 which I rolled the nose - so NOT pushing in the Pilot nose is just wierd to me and a habit I have to break. Thx!!!