A victory for terrorists?

[Dagny 0]

So, in light of the recent bombing in Madrid which killed 200 and injured 1,500, Spain is threatening to withdraw its 1,300 troops from Iraq in June unless the UN takes control of the country. The prime minister-elect described Spain's participation in the war as a "total error".

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The surprise victor in the election over Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Popular Party, Zapatero vowed that fighting terrorism would be his first priority as he sets about creating an administration "that will work for peace."

"I am going to fight the violence that also is attacking other nations in this world," he told reporters.

For that he was asking for the support of the Spanish people, he said.

"I want to create an alliance against violence and all kinds of terrorism," he said. "I don't want to create my own war."

Zapatero said he wants to maintain his country's "cordial" relations with the United States, even though he did not support the U.S.-led war on Iraq.

The question that comes to my mind is how do you fight terrorism and violence without actually fighting?
Also, Zapatero wants to create a stronger alliance with Morocco despite the fact that three of the the five men arrested in relation to the bombing are Moroccan.

I have to wonder if backing down doesn't send a message along the lines of "bully me and you can have my lunch money...oh, and can I do your homework for you, too?"

Personally, after 9/11, I wanted to see the WTC re-built, bigger and more brilliant than before. Kind of a fuck you to terrorism and anyone who fights dirty like that.

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[kmcguffee 0]

To me it says that terrorism works. Expect a large attack, or attempted attack, in the US before the next presidential election. They've seen their method work and will try it again. Just like Somalia made them believe that we would run after they inflicted a few casualties on our soldiers.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[kai2k1 0]

I read this earlier. I find It very disturbing. It seems to me as if Spain is bowing down to the terrorists that attacked them.

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan

[benny 0]

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So, in light of the recent bombing in Madrid which killed 200 and injured 1,500, Spain is threatening to withdraw its 1,300 troops from Iraq in June unless the UN takes control of the country. The prime minister-elect described Spain's participation in the war as a "total error".

Quote

The surprise victor in the election over Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Popular Party, Zapatero vowed that fighting terrorism would be his first priority as he sets about creating an administration "that will work for peace."

"I am going to fight the violence that also is attacking other nations in this world," he told reporters.

For that he was asking for the support of the Spanish people, he said.

"I want to create an alliance against violence and all kinds of terrorism," he said. "I don't want to create my own war."

Zapatero said he wants to maintain his country's "cordial" relations with the United States, even though he did not support the U.S.-led war on Iraq.

The question that comes to my mind is how do you fight terrorism and violence without actually fighting?


Also, Zapatero wants to create a stronger alliance with Morocco despite the fact that three of the the five men arrested in relation to the bombing are Moroccan.

I have to wonder if backing down doesn't send a message along the lines of "bully me and you can have my lunch money...oh, and can I do your homework for you, too?"

Personally, after 9/11, I wanted to see the WTC re-built, bigger and more brilliant than before. Kind of a fuck you to terrorism and anyone who fights dirty like that.

Some believe, as I do and as I mentioned earlier, that the way to win an unwinable war is to stop fighting, and work for peace. I admit that sometimes fighting is necessary but it can prove futile in the face of a non-specific enemy.

As far as I know the new Spanish PM was against the action in Iraq prior to the bombing and his election. Why then should his carrying through with his policy perspectives signal that he had been bullied by the terrorists. After all the, first guy fought, and now he may very well have been struck by someone fighting back.

I agree that the towers should be back bigger and better. But we should also still be allowed to say whatever we want to say whenever we want to say it and not worry who is looking over our shoulders or checking out what library book we've picked up.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Beerlight 0]

Socialist leader Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has friends in Al Quaida..... Now, a quick break from Middle East satisfies his new regime.........

[Dagny 0]

That's the impression I'm getting, too. I mean...Spain sent troops to Iraq to fight in the US led war, but now it's an error and a fight that Spain doesn't support? WTF?

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[Lee03 0]

you nailed it. a victory for the terrorists. they way he will try to fight it is APPEASEMENT, which has been proven, over and over again, to not work. This is not good. He is only opening himself up to more of the same treatment, the terrorists will walk all over him and his country. Look for this to happen in other countries that have upcoming elections. Terrorists understand only one thing, brute force..i.e. someone kicking the shit out of them. They laugh at idiots like Zatapero that think they can appease them!

--------
To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities.

--Nevil Shute, Slide Rule

[freeflir29 0]

I think it sends a bad message. Even worse it will up the moral of these pieces of shit. Not that they would have stopped until they were exterminated anyway.

[Remster 30]

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That's the impression I'm getting, too. I mean...Spain sent troops to Iraq to fight in the US led war, but now it's an error and a fight that Spain doesn't support? WTF?

The government support in the war on IRAQ never was supported by the population. The lost the election on that issue, nutthe terror attack that followed IMO.

Remster

[Deuce 1]

Spaniards are not Americans. Al Quaeda attacked Spain because it would be impossible for Spain to invade a host government and eradicate their martyrs and training facilities. And for all the crap they take, Interpol is not the CIA and FBI.

Spain will suffer more, and will turn back to the US, and we will quickly forgive the current jigoistic ramblings of the new President, and help. Like we always do.

Makes me proud.

[Dagny 0]

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Some believe, as I do and as I mentioned earlier, that the way to win an unwinable war is to stop fighting, and work for peace. I admit that sometimes fighting is necessary but it can prove futile in the face of a non-specific enemy.

So, if the enemy is non-specific, then who do you work with for peace?

I want peace, you want peace, but even together we don't influence any terrorist sects no matter how many letters we write, prayers we say, or candles we light. However, together, we might be able to stop a terrorist in the act. By fighting.

How do you make peace with someone who believes your existence is fundamentally wrong?

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[benny 0]

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That's the impression I'm getting, too. I mean...Spain sent troops to Iraq to fight in the US led war, but now it's an error and a fight that Spain doesn't support? WTF?

Spain, Spain's sitting government, not necessarily one in the same. The people of Spain were vastly opposed to their participation in the Iraq war. Probably one of the reasons they lost reelection. Spaniards didn't turn pansy all of a sudden, not that I'm saying they ever were. They simply disagreed with the positions of those in power and chose accordingly at the time they were allowed to cast their ballots. Maybe if there was a huge swing from pro-war to anti-war or even vice versa following the bombings could you claim that Spain had truly been swayed by the attack. No, they went forward with their democratic process in the face of terrorism. For that they are very brave. I'd bet if there were another attack, large-scale, in the US only days before the scheduled election, marshall law would be declared and voting post-poned indefinitely, but then again, I'm a nut!

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

The bombings were terrible - and the country is in shock right now. They are not American, and may not react the same way we do.

Could this be more of a sign for foreign governments that have been pro-Bush? Last I checked, millions of EU residents protested a few times against GWB and his lack of foreign policy.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[benny 0]

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Some believe, as I do and as I mentioned earlier, that the way to win an unwinable war is to stop fighting, and work for peace. I admit that sometimes fighting is necessary but it can prove futile in the face of a non-specific enemy.

So, if the enemy is non-specific, then who do you work with for peace?

I want peace, you want peace, but even together we don't influence any terrorist sects no matter how many letters we write, prayers we say, or candles we light. However, together, we might be able to stop a terrorist in the act. By fighting.

How do you make peace with someone who believes your existence is fundamentally wrong?

Terrorism has been practiced throughout the history of the world and is not some new creation. Often it has been the tool of minorities or opressed people. It was used by the American revolutionaries. It was used by the Israelis. It is used by Columbians. It's also used by Palestinians. A few years back it was used by a presumably god-fearing "good ole boy" type who had recently served in the United States military. I ask, who do you fight if you don't know who to fight. You may be right, this fight might be somewhat like current battles against cancer. You use chemotherapy, attack everything... but you walk a fine line, you might kill the body before you get all the cancer. When it's basically the entire world we're talking about here, I'm liking the odds of finding another option mainly. I've said before, I don't know the answer, and for that matter the fact that some people are gonna get pissed and try to kill some other people for political(?) advantage is probably something that we're just going to have to come to terms with and reduce as much as possible but never eliminate entirely. You can't make all the people happy all of the time but I don't the large scale invasions are exactly helping our standing, and we should remember, that group of people is breeding alot faster than we are. Soon, there will be more of them, unless we kill enough of them. Oh well, screw it, we're all dead anyway.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote of the day:

"See?! It works!"

- unidentified Al Qaeda higher-up.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Vertifly 0]

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Expect a large attack, or attempted attack, in the US before the next presidential election.

I have to admit that this is awfully speculative of you; unless of course you know for sure. Since 9/11 we've been hearing this. That is not to say that another attack is impossible; although, I think that trying to predict the next move by terrorists isn't a good idea without solid evidence.

[freeflir29 0]

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I think that trying to predict the next move by terrorists isn't a good idea without solid evidence.

So you think that there isn't any evidence that attacks have been planned? I certainly can't count on all my fingers and toes the number of incidence where either materiel or an outirght plot has been discovered in the last year. We have just been vigilant enough to keep catching them so far. Do you really think that after 9/11 the terrorist organizations just stopped trying to attack America? If you do......I'd have to say that you aren't very smart.

[Gawain 0]

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Some believe, as I do and as I mentioned earlier, that the way to win an unwinable war is to stop fighting, and work for peace. I admit that sometimes fighting is necessary but it can prove futile in the face of a non-specific enemy.

How do you "work for peace" with a non-specific enemy that does not want peace?

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I agree that the towers should be back bigger and better. But we should also still be allowed to say whatever we want to say whenever we want to say it and not worry who is looking over our shoulders or checking out what library book we've picked up.

How specifically are you prevented from saying what you want to say, reading what you want to read, doing what you want to do?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Dagny 0]

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Terrorism has been practiced throughout the history of the world and is not some new creation.

Well, clearly...

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Often it has been the tool of minorities or opressed people.

Agreed.

When I lived in New Orleans, I saw it all the time. In fact, I had the crap beat out of me by a minority. Maybe he was feeling oppressed and decided to take out his frustrations on me. Whatever. The point is, yes, when you have weapons or explosives or fists or knives or rocks and threaten the lives of innocent people, it gets attention. For a moment, it commands respect. But, I don't think trying to reason with or sign peace treaties with someone who is hell bent on destroying you because you are white or baptist or american or fighting a war or whatever is necessarily effective.

As for Spain...perhaps the people of Spain were anti-Iraqi war before the new PM was elected and followed the democratic process of their country to make themselves heard. The problem that I see is the timing. Just days after the bombing, they threaten to withdraw from Iraq and renounce their support of the war. Done days before the bombing, I would say that they enabled their democracy for change. Done after the bombing, I don't see how there is any other message to be received other than...a terrorist act, originating from a different country, was effective in altering the course of events for Spain and its people.

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[kmcguffee 0]

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I think that trying to predict the next move by terrorists isn't a good idea without solid evidence.

Why not? Why can't we have security in place without "solid evidence"? That doesn't make good sense to me.

I was always taught to put yourself in your enemie's position and plan an attack, and possible attacks, against yourself. Then plan your security to defeat those attacks. If we waited for solid evidence then we would have a very reactive defensive plan, if we had time to formulate one at all. Letting your enemy have the initiative and reacting to his plans is a losing proposition.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[mdrrus 0]

Keep in mind that Spain is removing it's troops to coincide with the US "turning over Iraq to Iraq to govern" When that happens, I hope that we pull out also. As for teriorists, you must get to world together to fight terrorism befor ther will be any peace. We all want peace but at what cost!

[kallend 2,106]

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So, in light of the recent bombing in Madrid which killed 200 and injured 1,500, Spain is threatening to withdraw its 1,300 troops from Iraq in June unless the UN takes control of the country. The prime minister-elect described Spain's participation in the war as a "total error".

Quote

The surprise victor in the election over Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Popular Party, Zapatero vowed that fighting terrorism would be his first priority as he sets about creating an administration "that will work for peace."

"I am going to fight the violence that also is attacking other nations in this world," he told reporters.

For that he was asking for the support of the Spanish people, he said.

"I want to create an alliance against violence and all kinds of terrorism," he said. "I don't want to create my own war."

Zapatero said he wants to maintain his country's "cordial" relations with the United States, even though he did not support the U.S.-led war on Iraq.

The question that comes to my mind is how do you fight terrorism and violence without actually fighting?
Also, Zapatero wants to create a stronger alliance with Morocco despite the fact that three of the the five men arrested in relation to the bombing are Moroccan.

I have to wonder if backing down doesn't send a message along the lines of "bully me and you can have my lunch money...oh, and can I do your homework for you, too?"

Personally, after 9/11, I wanted to see the WTC re-built, bigger and more brilliant than before. Kind of a fuck you to terrorism and anyone who fights dirty like that.

You appear to be suffering from some confusion between the "War on Terror" and the war on Iraq. Despite best efforts, no link has been established between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks.

Many people predicted that the war on Iraq would lead to an increase in terrorism. Possibly they were correct. GWB has allowed his vendetta against Iraq to cause him to lose focus on terrorism.

Spain's new democratically elected leadership is just fulfilling an election pledge. Don't you wish our leaders did the same?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jimbo 0]

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You appear to be suffering from some confusion between the "War on Terror" and the war on Iraq. Despite best efforts, no link has been established between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks.

There's more to the War on Terror than 9/11, professor. You should know that.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[freeflir29 0]

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You appear to be suffering from some confusion between the "War on Terror" and the war on Iraq.

Yeah........I'm sure there is nothing to all those statements about "Foreign Fighters" in Iraq. Figment of everyone's imagination I'm sure.

[Botellines 0]

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As for Spain...perhaps the people of Spain were anti-Iraqi war before the new PM was elected and followed the democratic process of their country to make themselves heard.

Dagny, perhaps is not the word... For sure spanish people were against the war on Irak. When we woted Aznar, (i include myself) we had no clue that he would go to a war outside the UN. Had we known, the PP wouldn´t have been elected. But since he got the mayority of the congress he could do as he pleased for 4 years. I am not with the actual president, but i think that Aznar was much worse.
I agree with you about the timing though. Too bad they didn´t ask when it was convenient for us to die!!!! I guess we could have posponed election, but wouldn´t that be interfering with the democracy of a country?
As for the treaties with Morocco... You don´t get to choose your neighbours. If it was up to me, Morocco would be some place in the artic pole and i would have switzerland move south of spain. (nice weather). But since that is not possible, it is wise to be in good terms with your neighbours (not that i like it, but i consider it necesary to some extent).

Why don´t we just move out of Irak. No American will die anymore there Irak, Spanish people will see the end of a war that didn´t ask for. Sadam is dead, Irak has a new constitution. Is it really worth to keep fighting there? I am not asking for the US, UK or Spain, i am asking for YOU and ME, dor normal people. I sure know it is not worth it.