Re: [badenhop] PETA and Bridge Day

[vonSanta 0]

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My feelings on this issue are personal and not based on any sort of religion. If I had the ability to stop the practice of corporate farming - I would. I would make it so every single meat eater had to hunt and kill his own food. If then, you still choose to eat meat, I might not agree but I would respect your choice.

That's a pretty cool attitude. I don't feel particularly bad (at all) about eating an animal that was raised and killed for me. Get the occasional twinge of consciousnes when I hear how some farmers treat their animals. In general, it's pretty bad.

Now if I could kill the animals I eat, I would. Simply not enough around (thanks to overpopulation and farming, those cows need a lot of grain).

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I'll say again, It's not about what's 'rightfully' ours to take. It's about how we take it. And what we nurture and what we destroy as a result.

I'd agree with this statement. One thing that is kinda off-turning with vegetarians and vegans, however, is their self proclaimed moral superiority - "I do not eat meat, therefore I am morally superior, coz I don't kill animals". This makes me want to say "for every animal you don't eat, I'll eat three'. That creates a nice moral dilemma.

Joking aside...

I disagree completely with this line of reasoning. I eat meat because I like it. I kill fish and so on and I don't feel bad about it. My morality is not based solely on whether I choose to kill to eat. It's far more complicated than that.

And the old argument of harming *anything* that is alive applies as well. Grass may not have feelings (we don't know for sure), but I bet to a *human*, with *human emotions and morals*, grass got a pretty shitty deal once people decided to play football on it.

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All this talk about our "rights" and our place in the food chain. None of us has to fight for our food anymore. We've evolved. But we're still citing neanderthal practices as our reasons.

Being a herbivore is not being more evolved than being a omnivore. Stating that humans, overall, are omnivores is just stating the fact. A small minority eats only fruits and veggies, but the vast majority of us have a varied diet.

Other than this, I can just fully support your position on the farm animal treatment issue and your arguments are quite convincing. For me, however, I do not see anything inherently wrong with killing something so one can feed.

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[yourmomma 0]

1. What is God's opinion of vegetarians?
A. They are purer in faith.
B. They are weak heathens, worshipping other gods.
C. They will be stronger in the long run, by resisting temptation.
D. A and C.

Correct Answer: B. (They are weak heathens, worshipping other gods.) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils . . . commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth" (1 Timothy 4:1-3). “For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs” (Romans 14:2).

2. What has God ordered evil people to consume?
A. The flesh and juice of overripe fruit.
B. The flesh and blood of rotting animal corpses.
C. The flesh and blood of humans, including themselves.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: C. (The flesh and blood of humans, including themselves.) "And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine” (Isaiah 49:26). “I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another” (Zechariah 1:9). “Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm” (Isaiah 9:19-20).

3. What special ingredient has God required sinners to bake in their bread?
A. Spicy peppers that burn the cheeks and roofs of their mouths.
B. Human excrement, though upon complaint, He has allowed them to use cow dung instead .
C. Worms and eight-legged insects.
D. Powerful sedatives that cause memory loss.

Correct Answer: B. (Human excrement, though upon complaint He has allowed them to use cow dung instead.) "And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man . . . Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth. Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow’s dung for man’s dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith” (Ezekiel 4:12-15).

4. How did people wash down the special ingredient in Question 3?
A. With bitter wine.
B. With their own urine.
C. With salt water from the sea.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: B. (With their own urine.) “Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?” (2 Kings 18:27; see Isaiah 36:12).

5. Which of the following dishes were clean and therefore acceptable for God’s children to eat?
A. Turtle soup.
B. Rabbit stew.
C. Escargot.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (None of the above) “And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you” (Leviticus 11:6). “These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth: the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind, And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole” (Leviticus 11:29-30).

6. Which children did God order bad people to eat?
A. This question is utter nonsense. God forbids all cannibalism, let alone cannibalism involving children.
B. Their sons but not their daughters.
C. Their daughters but not their sons.
D. Their sons, daughters and even newborn infants.

Correct Answer: D. (Their sons, their daughters and even newborn infants.) “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat” (Leviticus 26:29). “And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters” (Deuteronomy 28:53). “And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them” (Deuteronomy 28:57). “And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend” (Jeremiah 19:9).

7. Which bugs are clean and were therefore acceptable for God’s children to eat?
A. Beetles and grasshoppers.
B. Locusts and bald locusts.
C. All of the above.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: C. (All of the above) “Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind” (Leviticus 11:22).

8. What lifestyle activities does God recommend?
A. Heavy consumption of meat.
B. Moderate to heavy exercise.
C. Heavy consumption of fat.
D. A and C.

Correct Answer: D.(A and C) “And ye shall eat fat till ye be full” (Ezekiel 39:19). “[Peter] became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him . . . Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat” (Acts 10:9-13). “For bodily exercise profiteth little . . .” (1 Timothy 4:8).

9. What does God say about consumption of wine?
A. People with serious financial problems should drink wine so they can forget their woes.
B. People with stomach problems should drink wine.
C. Wise men would not drink wine, which is a mocker.
D. All of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (All of the above) “Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more” (Proverbs 31:6-7). “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities” (1 Timothy 5:23). “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).

10. Which of the following birds are clean and were therefore acceptable for God’s children to eat?
A. Raven and hawk.
B. Swan and pelican.
C. Heron and stork.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (None of the above) And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; Every raven after his kind; And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat” (Leviticus 11:13-19).

[freeflybella 0]

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In Reply To
All this talk about our "rights" and our place in the food chain. None of us has to fight for our food anymore. We've evolved. But we're still citing neanderthal practices as our reasons.

Being a herbivore is not being more evolved than being a omnivore. Stating that humans, overall, are omnivores is just stating the fact. A small minority eats only fruits and veggies, but the vast majority of us have a varied diet.

I didn't mean to say that herbivores are more evolved. I meant to say that we as humans have evolved. We now have the capacity to understand things beyond the basic hunger, fear, fatigue, etc. All this talking about 'food chain' makes me wonder why we haven't come up with a more relevant argument.

Thanks for reading with an open mind. And I agree that any human announcing moral superiority is useless. None of us is 'better' than the other, we just 'know' different things.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Nightingale 0]

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in fact have you ever killed anything with a handheld weapon? powered by your own muscle?

most havent..

I have. It wasn't pleasant. But it was necessary. It was a beautiful animal, but it was preying on pets and stalking small children. Neighbors had seen it eyeing their kids, and Animal Control had been trying to put it down for some time. I had the opportunity to take it down, and I did. That morning, it killed my cat right on my front porch, and I went hunting for it that evening, never expecting to actually find it, and find it with someone else's cat in its mouth. It stopped in the middle of the sidewalk and just stared at me, about ten feet away. I never thought I'd throw knives for anything other than target practice, and I will admit that I felt more than a little sick when I wiped its blood off my knife, but I know that it was the right thing to do, or, instead of a cat, someone's toddler might've been next.

[vonSanta 0]

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I didn't mean to say that herbivores are more evolved. I meant to say that we as humans have evolved. We now have the capacity to understand things beyond the basic hunger, fear, fatigue, etc. All this talking about 'food chain' makes me wonder why we haven't come up with a more relevant argument.

To be perfectly honest, I doubt there is a good answer other than "I like meat, and I like the convenience of buying it at the store". Well, some would argue that it's more of a hassle and less of a culinary experience/more expensive to get good quality veggie food with all the necessary nutrients (which of course is't that hard to get).

That's basically it, really. Beings are brougt up to slaughter and we think little of it, or try not to think about it at all.

OTOH, society as a whole has become extremely wussyfied. Cute n' cuddly animals are protected and cared for, ugly and dangerous ones receive less support. Most of us wouldn't feel good about killing a chicken, plucking its feathers, removing its entrails and then cooking it. And, if you're not willing to do that, but still steadfastly maintain meat is the only way to go, then I'd say there's some truth to the (sometimes) vegetarian person saying "we're morally superior".

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Thanks for reading with an open mind. And I agree that any human announcing moral superiority is useless. None of us is 'better' than the other, we just 'know' different things.

Yeah, agreed wholeheartedly. We have different backgrounds, cultures, abilities, food sources etc etc. Hunting and fishing has been pretty popular in my family, so I gather it has affected my attitude towards animals as a potential food source

Oh yeah, i hear you're a kickass freeflier. That, to me, is a sign of moral superiority if anything is

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[Zenister 0]

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And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........ This is necessary...........

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Shotgun 1]

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God also urges us to kill all the gays. It also teaches that all races of humanity descended from one guy (Noah) and his wives, and that all land animals - every single one, from microscopic insects to elephants - once lived on a little boat.

ROFL!

Thanks, Bill. I needed that. (as I wipe the tears from my eyes...)

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[DJL 235]

OH SHIT!! Another GENIUS idea.

I'm going to go to a PETA gathering and pass out recipes for mouth watering meals. Mmmm, I made the best Salmon the other day. Cooked at 450 degrees on a bed of rosemary, lemon and butter on top. Served on sauted baby spinach. Drizzled with hollandaise.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[BoostedXT 0]

Tell the lion to not eat the gazelle and I will stop eating the cow.


Joe

For long as you live and high you fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all that you touch and all that you see is all your life will ever be.
Pedro Offers you his Protection.

[hookitt 1]

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Tell the lion to not eat the gazelle and I will stop eating the cow

The lion (who's digestive tract is about 6 feet long and highly acidic by the way) killed the gazelle after a chase.

You (who's digestive tract is about 35 feet long and not very acidic.. by the way) however bought your portion of cow from a chilled bin at a grocery store.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Swoopyswoop 0]

I gots a .415 rigby for mister tiger. Here kitty kitty kitty. Kitty want some milk

"when I die, I want to go like my grandfather while im sleeping, not like the passengers riding in the car with me
Swoopster
A.S.S. #6 Future T.S.S holder

[JoeyRamone 0]

It's called the food chain, people; we're on top...
deal with it. ***

Here Here.....

[RevJim 0]

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Tell the lion to not eat the gazelle and I will stop eating the cow

The lion (who's digestive tract is about 6 feet long and highly acidic by the way) killed the gazelle after a chase.

You (who's digestive tract is about 35 feet long and not very acidic.. by the way) however bought your portion of cow from a chilled bin at a grocery store.

Tell that to the venison and elk in my freezer. I'm an avid bow hunter, and a number of years ago went back to a recurve bow and cedar arrows.

No more hi-tech compound bow, overdraw, carbon fibre arrows, and expanding broadheads. I would eat the meat i have killed myself exclusively, but according to the DNR, I can only kill so much per year, and only during certain times of the year. Thus, I supplement with beef from the local slaughterhouse. These are locally raised head, and if I wanted to be really picky, I could choose them "on the hoof". Nothing in the way of meat that goes through this house is from a factory farm.

I am a meat eater, and I am proud of it.

Oh, yea, the bears up here do get the occasional deer too, and salmon, but ya know, every few years or so i get a permit, and some bear meat. I'd hunt and eat more if I was allowed to, LEGALLY.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[lawrocket 3]

Hookitt:

I understand your points. Indeed, not all cows are the happy cows on the commercial. Some are. I know because I've been charged by more than one bull on the land navigation course at Camp SLO.

Still, you must also consider the ecological problems cause by vegetable crops. First, the runoff of agricultural wastes, including but not limited to phosphates and other fertilizers, causes algae blooms that kill off lakes, streams and lagoons.

Next, the insecticides also create a big problem. Know this - there are thousands of critters killed so I can enjoy my veggies. You, too. Cows or weevils, both suffer. Thus, I've demonstrated a virtual holocaust among the insects, worms, and fish (the algae blooms) caused by your dependance on plant carcasses for your nutrition.

Ah, but what about organically grown foods? These are mainly frankenfoods, genetically designed to resist critter infestation. Typically, they become irritants to the insects. The effect is that the produce you eat will be irritating, and not as pleasurable. Also, consider the famines this causes to hapless insect populations. The poor things would be better off receiving a dose of raid from a cropduster.

Furthermore, there are various and sundry horrors caused by the harvesting of your foods. Chunks of mice, prairie dogs, and cuddly bunnies are sucked up by combines along with the corn and wheat. Great green globs of greasy grimey gopher guts are part and parcel to the whole grain breakfast cereals. Cutting the little mammals to little pieces is far worse that the conditions at Harris Ranch.

The point? It's difficult to put down the horrors of animal domestication and slaughter when viewed in light of the other horrors caused by cultivation of produce.

If it is animal suffering and damage to the environment you seek to avoid, you basically have no choice other than growing your own vegetables without any protections at all.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[hookitt 1]

I wasn't talking to you Jim

And why in the heck to you want me to talk to the Venison and Elk Slabs in your freezer? That's really weird.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[RevJim 0]

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I wasn't talking to you Jim

And why in the heck to you want me to talk to the Venison and Elk Slabs in your freezer? That's really weird.

'Cause if ya get here at the right time of the year, they might talk, or at least make some noises, back.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[hookitt 1]

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'Cause if ya get here at the right time of the year, they might talk, or at least make some noises, back.

Would that be mushroom season?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[RevJim 0]

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'Cause if ya get here at the right time of the year, they might talk, or at least make some noises, back.

Would that be mushroom season?

Only the best for my friends.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[benny 0]

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including but not limited to phosphates and other fertilizers, causes algae blooms that kill off lakes, streams and lagoon

umm, those fertilizers come from somewhere... typically from the shit, literally shit, produced by big agribusiness livestock farms. The only problem of it is that the pigs and cows shit more than we need to make the soybeans for all the veggie nuts grow, so it ends up going others places, like rivers in North Carolina, and then bad shit happens. The problem is not whether or not we eat meat, or not meat, but the fact that we're a bunch of lazy fat asses who eat way too much and waste too much of what we do produce. And yeah, it'd be way cooler if we killed our own food, and I actually did beat the bunny over it's head when I was a little kid! I eat meat daily, I wish the system were different, if I had the economic means to change it I would but it's hard to buy enviro-friendly shit when you're a broke ass skydiver.

As well, there is the fact that you simply don't know anything about your food unless you grow, raise, catch it yourself. I mean, how many of you veggie-heads out there grow your own? How many acres of land had to be cleared to farm the fields to grow your soybeans? How many animals were displaced from their natural habitats and died as a result?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[mnischalke 0]

Niiiiiice.

Isn't that the second reference from the same track from you today?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Kennedy 0]

You know, you seem really confrontational when you reply to me. Are you still upset about that salt on the railroad thing?

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have you ever even seen a tiger (or any large cat) without bars between you?

Sorry, trips to Africa are a bit outside my price range, and no, I haven't come across any bobcats or mountain lions.

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heard that low growl that raises the hair on the back of your neck and reminds you of exactly how defenseless you really are?
how about a bear? wolf?

Yes, in fact I'm fairly sure we were hunted by a pack of wolves, but we never had to confront them. The howls are less frightening than the low growls. Bears through the back yard was not an entirely rare event when I was growing up.

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in fact have you ever killed anything with a handheld weapon? powered by your own muscle?

most havent.

Managed to tag a deer with a long blade (I suppose it passes for a machete). It made the mistake of crossing a large stream near our camp. I cut it and dragged it under. First experience with a significant amount of blood (I don't qualify bullet holes as significant amounts of blood). Also my first experience being treated with field first aid outside of practice. I don't underestimate any wild animal anymore.

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most "hunters" are simply prey without the tools they bought from the gun store...

I respect most hunters for the skills they have above and beyond the rest of the population. Obviously, there are the Jim-Bobs out there who hunt from the truck window, but most hunters are more capable outside "civilization" than other groups. Most hunters I know are at least minimally trained in survival. And in my opinion, a person is not prey until they start thinking like it. I will always believe the best option when under attack is attack harder. I may be hunted, but I will not be prey.

So now it's my turn.
Have you ever seen a big cat outside the zoo?
Have you ever seen a bear or wolf in person?
Have you ever killed with a melee weapon?
Would you be prey when unarmed?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Zenister 0]

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I gots a .415 rigby for mister tiger. Here kitty kitty kitty. Kitty want some milk

yup, but take away the gun (that you dont even know how to make ammo for on your own in most cases, much less manufacture on your own.....) and your just a hairless monkey who cant climb very well or run very fast.... ie prey.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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Niiiiiice.

Isn't that the second reference from the same track from you today?

yea...i didnt have time to find the whole quote this morning...but its always fun to bring out in these discussions...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Snowwhite 0]

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OH SHIT!! Another GENIUS idea.

I'm going to go to a PETA gathering and pass out recipes for mouth watering meals. Mmmm, I made the best Salmon the other day. Cooked at 450 degrees on a bed of rosemary, lemon and butter on top. Served on sauted baby spinach. Drizzled with hollandaise.

MMMMmmm, come cook at my house!

!

skydiveTaylorville.org
freefallbeth@yahoo.com

[Snowwhite 0]

One of the funniest things that I can recall ever happening to me, is when I worked for a very selfish, self righteous woman who claimed to be vegan. She sat at a luncheon with me, chewing out one of her many renters on the phone, for having a deer hide stretched on the property she was renting to these poor folks. She sat there pouring TONS of gravy on all of her vegies, bread and potatoes, wearing her leather shoes, belt and purse. She was telling them how much she hated the use of animals for our food, and therefore how revolting she found the hide to be. They had to remove the hide they were stretching, and promise to no longer hunt the land, or she was going to evict them.

skydiveTaylorville.org
freefallbeth@yahoo.com