Mel Gibson's "Passion" film

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Okay, so how do you decide which versions are those inspired by God and those which are purely man-made and wrong? Surely you're chosing as a man, so that makes the choice invalid?

Sorry, little confused there.

Because some guy with a colar on his neck tells you so? And some guy with a colar on his neck told him...and so on.

Either that, or just remove the copyright and have the "crown" approve of it?

So, if I write my own version of the bible and claim that I was god's instrument, would you believe me? Want to start a religion?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[chuteless 1]

Let me say this slowly so you can get it then.

The only one without a copyright, was the final edition of the King James version of 1611.


All subsequent versions have been printed for profit motivation....and the publisher, after making thousands of changes, leaving out some of the most important fundamental portions, put a copyright on them.

In the frontspiece of those versions, you will see, you can only use or quote, re-write, certyain amounts without the publisher's permission in writing.

God allows you to use His entire Bible ....WITHOUT permission, and without cost or fear of penalty.

Bill Cole

As I said, there is so much more I wish I could show you, it would blow your mind...but it cannot be done here ina few words.

[souleh 0]

I think you just hit my point there

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[souleh 0]

So what about the ones before that? Aren't the earlier versions valid? The 1611 one was just another group of men modifying an earlier version. So why aren't newer ones valid? or ones before?

Edit: Don't get me wrong here, I'm not picking an argument with religion. I'm a christian (catholic) myself.. it's just I've grown to interpret God in my own way, and not strictly follow what a certain belief structure tells me to.

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Bill,

When I was in the Catholic Seminary I was never instructed by my theology professor that the KJV was the one and only bible. I've had many years of theological education, and this is a new idea to me.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[pajarito 0]

I'm fairly new to this dropzone.com forum thing. I wanted to upload an attachment that's 728kb. I exceed the limit. Any suggestions? I'm don't own a domain name and am not running my own web site. Does anyone happen to have an ftp site or somewhere I might be able to transfer a file so that it could be viewed by others here? I just jumped into this forum and can't stay but I've got a .pdf e-book that was very helpful to me particularly when I was researching the authenticity of the Christian Bible. I could even e-mail it to somebody and they could post it. If nobody can help, don't worry about it. I just thought I'd try.

[souleh 0]

Edit: Next time I'll try to read If you've got MSN messenger, add me (see my profile) and I'll put it on my site.

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[pajarito 0]

Oh well. It's an adobe acrobat file. I'll try later. Sorry.

[chuteless 1]

Sure there were many books written and some were portions of what ended up as the King Jamesw version, but God brought them together to form His WORD in 1611.

Before that, the writings were usually smaller in scoope, and it wasnt until 1611, the definitive Bible containing 66 books was completed. It includes "some" of the earlier writings,

There is a "key" that unlocks many of the mysteries about God's WORD, and once a person has learned to use that key, I can totally assyure you, it is quite easy to Spiritually understand how and WHY God first had His completed WORD printed in London, England, and NO WHERE ELSE,

Bill Cole

[pajarito 0]

Compressed with WinZip, it's still 363kb. Oh well.

[LuvToFly 0]

Hey, Your Mama,

There is a rule on this forum against making personal attacks. Your comments about white trash, double-wides, and having no brains are personal attacks in the context that they are directed specifically against a person who may have written you with beliefs other than your own.

No one who identifies NOTHING at all about themselves in their profile - I mean NOTHING - should have the right to make such statements about other people, let alone a legit participant.

Your argument has nothing to do with religion or Christianity whatsoever. You are seething with resentment and feel that this is a "forum" for expressing that.

I would advise everyone who believes in the bible who has been arguing with this non-person to cease. If they have such strong opinions that they feel they can trash other people, then they need to come forward or be ignored, particularly as you are given to insulting others in the way that you do.

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[chuteless 1]

VERY WELL PUT...AND RIGHT ON

Bill Cole

[riggerrob 643]

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Is there any wonder young kids are growing up and becoming violent against others.

I find this line to be the biggest cop-out on the face of this planet as for why people are "becoming" violent. The reason for more violence is the lack of parenting. I have always watched violent movies, whether they be of "action" or "horror" genres. Does that fact alone make me more prone to violence than anybody who doesn't/hasn't watched these movies?? DEFINITELY NOT. People need to teach their children that there are consequences to actions and that there are proper ways to treat other people rather than just blaming their lack of self control on movies/TV/video games.

Austin

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lack of parenting is the primary cause of violence between children.
Religion and television are irrelevant.
For example, back in the mid-1960s - before there were very many televisions in my home town - there were school yard bullies. Most of their parents denied accusations of their children's cruelty towards other children. Bully's parents were the most clueless parents in town.
Religion has nothing to do with cruelty. For example, the worst bully in my home town was the son of the local Pentacostal minister. His sister treated her female classmates little better.
Is it any wonder I refuse to set foot in a Pentacostal Church in this lifetime?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

So the previous versions of the bible that were supposedly inspired and written by god were actually not? God re-translated his own stuff for the King? God speaks english?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[PhillyKev 0]

Will you all listen to Mr. Cole? He's the only one making any sense. It's simple really.

The Bible is true, because....here it comes.....it says so in The Bible.

See how simple and logical that is?

[jaaska 0]

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No, its quite true.

God Himself inspired those who wrote the original transcripts, and HE guided them to their conclusion as the king James Bible of 1611.

God doesnt do things like mankind does.

God writes His WORD, and directs the entire project to its completeion as HE wants it tobe. He doesnt hand it to men, and then go on vacation, hoping it will be acceptable when He returns. HE alone inspires

those who wrote and those over many years who translated it and finished it as HIS WORD.

The more modern versions were printed for a profit motivation, and they all have a copyright on their versions. Imagine the arrogance of man, thinking they alone OWN God's WORD. What foolishness.

The King James version is the only one that has no copyright....it belongs to God and to all mankind, and no one can put a copyright on it.


The KJV was first published in London England, through authority of the Crown of England.

There is so much more I could tell you about WHY that happened, but it would take much time, and much forum. So very much more!!!!!


Bill Cole


Bill Cole

Oh, I'd be glad to hear about you sources.

If you think that all the translations that have been done after the KJV (or before that!) are in fact a) false/altered/wrong and b) have a copyright, you must have familiarized those over 100 000 versions (or parts) of the Bible - some of them gone forever. I haven't, but it's nice that you have.

Most of the churches I know (I have to admit that they are Nordic ones), renew the language of the bible every now and then. No, the idea is not to change the meaning - the idea is to keep it comprehensible. To tell the truth, I'm not sure about the copyright issues. I don't see, however, your point about the it, thought. The KJV does not have a copyright more likely because such concept DID NOT exist when it was first published.

Your view of this matter is somewhat narrow, at least so it seems to me...

[jaaska 0]

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Okay, so how do you decide which versions are those inspired by God and those which are purely man-made and wrong? Surely you're chosing as a man, so that makes the choice invalid?

Sorry, little confused there.

Because some guy with a colar on his neck tells you so? And some guy with a colar on his neck told him...and so on.

Either that, or just remove the copyright and have the "crown" approve of it?

So, if I write my own version of the bible and claim that I was god's instrument, would you believe me? Want to start a religion?

Doesn't that happen every day?

[chuteless 1]

You talk about learning self control....what about parent controlling their children....such as not allowing them to have video games that give points for killing others.

Why not have parents control their willingness to feed their children a diet of violence by not buying this trash for their young impressionable children
Children as young as 5 yrs old are caught up in this KILL ANTHING THAT MOVES on the monitor, and they grow up and at 16 yrs old, they have imbedded within their subconscious mind, that is okay to do whatever you want as long as the other guy falls dead. Use a knife...use a gun, anything.

What a disgraceful way torear children.

As the twig is bent, so the tree shall grow,


Bill Cole

[chuteless 1]

Will you all listen to Phillykev...He's the only one who makes no sense...his illogic logic isnt worth repeating here.

Bill Cole

[PhillyKev 0]

I am God.

>>Prove it

God says I'm God

>>Who is God?

I am God

>>Ahhh, I see, you are God, you have proven it.

[pajarito 0]

That’s very blasphemous but nice circular reasoning!

[jaaska 0]

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Sure there were many books written and some were portions of what ended up as the King Jamesw version, but God brought them together to form His WORD in 1611.

Before that, the writings were usually smaller in scoope, and it wasnt until 1611, the definitive Bible containing 66 books was completed. It includes "some" of the earlier writings,

There is a "key" that unlocks many of the mysteries about God's WORD, and once a person has learned to use that key, I can totally assyure you, it is quite easy to Spiritually understand how and WHY God first had His completed WORD printed in London, England, and NO WHERE ELSE,

Bill Cole

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

You just excluded around billion non-English speaking Christian people from having a chance of "knowing the true word of god".

If you want to study bible, learn other languages and study some of the more "original" ones.

The Finnish Bible is based on German version (translation was done around 1530, so some 100 years before the KJV) - are you seriously telling me that "my Bible is better than yours"?

What if some old scriptures were found in a desert and they were authenticated (don't ask me how, I suppose the same way the KJV) to be some missing parts of the Bible... What then?

[wzettler 0]

I think I am confused too. First you said:

Quote

God Himself inspired those who wrote the original transcripts, and HE guided them to their conclusion as the king James Bible of 1611.

then you said:

Quote

God writes His WORD, and directs the entire project to its completeion as HE wants it tobe. He doesnt hand it to men, and then go on vacation, hoping it will be acceptable when He returns. HE alone inspires

those who wrote and those over many years who translated it and finished it as HIS WORD.

next you said:

Quote

The more modern versions were printed for a profit motivation, and they all have a copyright on their versions. Imagine the arrogance of man, thinking they alone OWN God's WORD.

So here is the issue I am confused on:
If God "directs the project" of the Bible, how can He allow people to "twist" His Word and allow other versions that are copyrighted? Is that how we are suppose to know which is the real version? What if someone made another version of the KJV 1611 and claimed Divine Inspiration and didn't copyright it?
Oh yeah, and later on you said something to the effect that there were reasons why God guided the process so it was translated into English. Are you saying that God prefers English? Does He prefer English speakers over non-English speakers too?
I'm so confused...

I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.

[LuvToFly 0]

Folks -

It is pointless to actually "argue" about this topic. There is no winning, no convincing others, etc.

What you are all talking about here is faith.

For some of you, you believe you don't have faith in anything. That is faith. You are hedging your bets on the idea that there really is nothing out there, but like an athiest recently said here - even stating that there IS no God cannot be positively proven. That is faith. Nor can many of the points that everyone is arguing on this thread - in either directions of belief.

Faith has been defined as, "the evidence of things, unseen." That is an impossible statement to reason out and it was meant to be that way. Faith is not about proof, argued points of view, or logic. It is a belief in something that you may not be able to prove by it's very nature.

We trust our spouses not to cheat on us because we have faith in them. That is where the term being faithful comes from. But we cannot prove that they will not cheat on us in the future. It is what we choose to believe when we have faith in them.

There can be no proven consensus for faith, because faith in of itself in anything is not provable.

Faith is often a misused term too. If you are walking across a steel girder, and someone asks how you can do that.. and you say, "I have faith in the steel manufacturer.." that is not faith. There is a specific tensil strength inherent with that item - and the weight of one mere person is far, far below that breaking point.

Faith is that which you cannot really dissect and prove. It is not something that comes with a spec sheet with arguable facts.

If we want to consider one of the strongest statements of faith, ironically evolution has been seen in recently years by even secular scientists to be such.

There are so many ifs (thousands) necessary to have made a continuance of some original spark of life that the leaps between them can only be filled with a type of faith - because they are unprovable.

So each has faith in something as it relates to the eternal, or even that there is no eternal. One cannot prove it, and that is faith.

Faith is just that folks. And the bible is no different. Someone has stated that folks believe in the bible because they "choose to." That is completely true. So do we choose to believe in anything we cannot prove.

It is all about what you put your trust in. And trust, many times, involves a leap of faith -

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[ianmdrennan 2]

Please don't try and apply logic to this conversation. Rational thought has no place here

Performance Designs Factory Team