Keith 0 #176 February 27, 2004 QuoteI dont think you'll have to wait too long. This old world is on its last legs. Yeah, science has proven that in about 5 billion years our sun will run out of fuel and incinerate the earth.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #177 February 27, 2004 now that was funny Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #178 February 27, 2004 Totally being honest here. That's a good explanation of what you think. Do you have specifics that we could discuss. This is interesting to me. I agree with your description of theories and one building upon the other. You can't prove what's in the Bible with the scientific theory, though. Different analysis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuffit 0 #179 February 27, 2004 QuoteWhat research have you done and what would you suggest? It sounded like you didn't refute anything but with your opinionated comments. You dont need to refute any of that stuff in the article because it is idiotic. Just read it without your belief in the forefront PLEASE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #180 February 27, 2004 Pick a specific and we can talk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pccoder 0 #181 February 27, 2004 me laughing too PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #182 February 27, 2004 Yeah...that's gonna suck when the sun blows up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #183 February 27, 2004 well for starters would you like to focus on OT or NT? there are issues with each, we can also discuss the "immediacy" of the gospels creation, there are lots of sources that contradict the statements made as 'fact' in the link you provided. I'll get you a nice comprehensive list in a bit when i get back to my library. of course we will simply spin around the same tired paths every time this discussion occurs, christians cant even 'prove' who wrote what texts in what time period, but will always accept the dates and timelines that best fit their belief no matter how little evidence there is to back the assertion..... if your going to look for answers you should listen to what they say not discard them when they disagree with the answer you wish to be true.. perhaps we should agree on what defines "evidence" first because it will become an issue rather quickly, believers tend to accept quite a lot of hearsay as 'evidence'..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuffit 0 #184 February 27, 2004 QuoteThe Book Of Acts Provides A Clue To The Date Of The Gospels The Book of Acts also provides us with a clue as to when the gospels were written. Acts records the highlights in the life and ministry of the Apostle Paul. The book concludes with Paul at Rome awaiting trial before Caesar. The inference is that Acts was written while Paul was still alive, seeing his death is not recorded. Since there is good evidence that Paul died in the Neronian persecution about A.D. 67, the Book of Acts can be dated approximately A.D. 62 "seeing his death is not recorded" - why does his death have to be recorded in this account, does every story tell the entire life of a person? No. "since there is good evidence that paul died in the neronian persecution about A.D. 67..." - Where is this good evidence? I could go on and on, would you please just admit that science prevails and that this book is not always accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #185 February 27, 2004 These people are using different historical events in time to approximate another. That makes sense to me. How else would you go about it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #186 February 27, 2004 What do you think is good evidence to prove historical accuracy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuffit 0 #187 February 27, 2004 In a world that is hundreds of millions of years old, I would not go about trying to prove the dates for a book that is two thousand years old. There is no point. Secondly, where is the "good evidence" that he died in this persecution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #188 February 28, 2004 My evidence for death and resurrection is in the Gospels. However, until you believe that the Bible is true and accurate, there's no basis for continuing. I agree that this won't go anywhere and it is a shame to me. There has to be a starting point. There has to be a belief in God, at least, for there to be some common ground for discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #189 February 28, 2004 >Do you have specifics that we could discuss. Specifics on historical accuracy? Sure. It's become more clear over the years that the bible has a great deal of "observational" accuracy - the things described in it often did happen in some manner. Take the deluge, for example. At first it was taken on faith that the entire earth was covered with water. Then people began to doubt that the entire planet was really covered with 30,000 feet of water or that it remained so for 150 days. "That's absurd!" they'd say. "The bible is obviously fundamentally flawed." But once we started looking into it, we realized something like that did happen. About 12,000 years ago, the Black Sea was a smallish freshwater lake, and from what we can tell a pretty nice place to live. It was well below sea level. As glaciers receded the water level in the Mediterranean rose bit by bit until finally, during a particularly nasty storm, the first seawater broke over the Bosporous ridge and began to fill the Black Sea. To say that this was a significant event to the people who lived there would be an understatement. Water levels probably rose 6-12 inches a day for almost a year until the water rose some 300 feet, covering entire towns. Imagine what that would look like to someone in a boat. If you were near the center of the former lake, it would look like the water rose and covered the entire earth; water would cover all you could see. It might take weeks to drift back to dry land without sails or power. This all happened about 7000 years ago and the legend became part of many other religions and histories. The Babylonians had the story of Utnapishtim, a survivor of the "great flood sent by the gods." The gods warned him so he built a boat and loaded it with gold, animals and artists. Ancient Greeks had the legend of Deucalion and Pyhrra, who saved their family and some animals during a great flood by getting in a massive box-like boat. >You can't prove what's in the Bible with the scientific theory, though. Different analysis. I agree that you can't prove the spiritual message the bible has, but you can learn a lot about the culture of the time and come to understand their history better. Wine, for example, was often drunk back then not to get drunk but because the alcohol killed off germs that caused dysentery, and such diseases killed people pretty regularly back then. All water was essentially impure, especially in big cities that did not have separate water sources (which was most cities back then.) The legend of Jesus turning water to wine at the wedding, then, has an overtone of him being able to transmute something impure into something pure, rather than turning "pure" water into a party drink. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuffit 0 #190 February 28, 2004 I just want to know: Do you believe in the stories about creation and that stuff or do you believe in scientific theories such as evolution? I just want to see if you are taking everything in the Bible as fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #191 February 28, 2004 The Book of Acts of the Apostles was apparently written as you said, in 33 A.D. to 62 A.D. Pauls letters to Timothy were written in 66 A.D., and is its believed that he was put to death by Nero either in 66 or 67 A.D. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #192 February 28, 2004 I've got to step out for a while. I shall return. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #193 February 28, 2004 QuoteWhat do you think is good evidence to prove historical accuracy? unbiased sources by known historians, those without any thing to 'prove'. cross referenced with accepted provable records, and verifiable timelines. Yes such exist. Of course few of them reference your carpenter in any manner at all. perhaps he wasn’t as significant as your writers like to claim? QuoteAt first it was taken on faith that the entire earth was covered with water. Then people began to doubt that the entire planet was really covered with 30,000 feet of water or that it remained so for 150 days. "That's absurd!" they'd say. "The bible is obviously fundamentally flawed." But once we started looking into it, we realized something like that did happen. About 12,000 years ago, the Black Sea was a smallish freshwater lake, and from what we can tell a pretty nice place to live. It was well below sea level. As glaciers receded the water level in the Mediterranean rose bit by bit until finally, during a particularly nasty storm, the first seawater broke over the Bosporous ridge and began to fill the Black Sea. To say that this was a significant event to the people who lived there would be an understatement. Water levels probably rose 6-12 inches a day for almost a year until the water rose some 300 feet, covering entire towns. Imagine what that would look like to someone in a boat. If you were near the center of the former lake, it would look like the water rose and covered the entire earth; water would cover all you could see. It might take weeks to drift back to dry land without sails or power. which while extremely significant to those living in the vicinity, IS NOT a worldwide flood that wiped out all of humanity with exception of "god's chosen " family details may point to a common event, however that event does not imply the cosmology christians claim it does. By way of example the fundamental 'event' of the christian faith, the resurrection of their christ, is a rather common myth to multiple older (Egyptian and Assyrian, off the top of my head) mythos as well..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #194 February 28, 2004 >which while extremely significant to those living in the vicinity, IS NOT > a worldwide flood that wiped out all of humanity . . . No argument there. As I was saying, there are quite a few stories in the bible that are not literally accurate, but were as accurate as their observations and history would allow. From "Noah's" (or Utnapishtim's, or Deucalion's) point of view that did happen. >details may point to a common event, however that event does not >imply the cosmology christians claim it does. The story of Noah surely _implies_ the underlying theological explanation; it just doesn't prove it. >By way of example the fundamental 'event' of the christian faith, the > resurrection of their christ, is a rather common myth to multiple > older (Egyptian and Assyrian, off the top of my head) mythos as well.. At one time, anyone who could "come back to life" was a god, or was at least being looked over by a god. Now we do it a dozen times a day in hospitals, and we know of cases where people can appear dead for hours or days and 'come back to life.' Again, a case where what appeared to be something that only could happen via god's intervention has been shown to be quite possible via other mechanisms. That strengthens the case that the bible is observationally accurate (i.e. people really did seem him 'die' and 'rise from the dead') and weakens the case that the underlying theological explanation is 100% accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misslmperfect 0 #195 February 28, 2004 i dont claim to know when the end of the world will come...or whether it even will. i believe in God, i believe in Christ, and that he died for me. i dont go to church, because ive yet to find one thats not built on political and financial gain. if i did, id attend weekly. i realize that it is the Christian way to 'spread the word', that Christians as a whole are supposed to teach the words of Christ to all who will listen. i choose not to do this. my faith is just that. MY faith. what right do i have to impose my beliefs on anyone? i believe that anyone who has faith is good in God's eyes. faith in anything at all. good people are good people, regardless of religion/ Christian denomination. i wish these ongoing, ENDless battles about who's right and who's wrong, about the accuracy of the bible, the accuracy of films, the accuracy of another man's beliefs, would just end. love life. love YOUR God, whomever he may be. be a good person, and be happy. you cant go wrong. in the end, none of this debating is really going to matter anyway. you will never convince a person that you are right and they were wrong. you can preach all you want, but NO ONE knows. thats why its called FAITH. some have it, some dont. i choose to live my life with faith in God because it makes me a better person. it brings me happiness and love. it fulfills me. if i die and there is no God, at least i was a better person in life because of the faith that i had. i saw the movie last night. i cried for about an hour and a half. it broke my heart. but it made me grateful for what i have. it makes me not want to take my life for granted. i think we all could use that from time to time.Oh Canada, merci pour la livraison! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #196 February 28, 2004 Quotethats why its called FAITH. some have it, some dont. i choose to live my life with faith in God because it makes me a better person. it brings me happiness and love. it fulfills me. if i die and there is no God, at least i was a better person in life because of the faith that i had. I agree - it's about faith....all about faith. Seeing what can't be seen with the physical eyes, feeling what can't be felt with the physical flesh. It's about living your life with accountability to Someone or Something. But it's also about a daily accounting to God and self; what have I done today that has made the world better? What have I done today that touches someone, makes someone better? Did I contribute to the world today, or did I just take from the world? Did I intentionally deceive anyone for any reason? And why? Or was I honest and truthful, and maintain a good moral character and example to others, whether or not they're looking? It's all about faith. I have a friend named Jackie who lives her life with the best faith I've ever seen - and she is almost always calm, cool, collected, and relaxed. I wish I had her faith...but I will work on mine, and maybe someday have that sort of faith. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
North95 0 #197 February 28, 2004 Getting back to the movie. Has anyone posted this link to this film review yet? Passion ReviewRepetition does not transform a lie into a truth. Franklin D. Roosevelt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #198 February 28, 2004 Yeah, I have no clue what thread I should post this in. But I just saw this movie a few minutes ago. Go see it. It's the most well-made movie I have ever seen, and will leave you speechless. The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #199 February 28, 2004 Quote That too, has been directed from God, a part of His amazing plan for this world. It was not simply selected to be the Universal language on the whim of some man. God and Bill Gates... oh and a lot of British Generals when they conquered 1/3 of the world two hundred years ago... Quote Oh, you didnt know that London England is at the center of the world???? Well, it is situated on the Prime Meridian, exactly 12 hours from the International Dateline in either direction. the center of the 24 hour day. Not sure that had a lot to do with god - again it is just pretty much because we used to rule the waves... dont any more of course... Dude, didnt you learn at school that the world is a sphere? The centre is straight underneath you! *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #200 February 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteI dont think you'll have to wait too long. This old world is on its last legs. Yeah, science has proven that in about 5 billion years our sun will run out of fuel and incinerate the earth. *Like "Too many rats in one cage", Modern Sociology that we survive in/World politics will bring our demise long before nature can "Clean House"._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
