Argus service bullettin

[skymik 0]

Mandatory replacement of cutter products until August 2007

http://www.skymik.it

[Hvance 0]

There was another thread about this, but I think it was deleted.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[PhreeZone 20]

Does anyone have the steps needed to get a new cutter for free? I have a few customers that will be needing new cutters it looks like.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[slotperfect 7]

The first thread on this subject was removed at the request of the OP. The manufacturer changed the SB right after it was issued and the OP did not want to cause confusion.

Arrive Safely

John

[RIGGER 0]

Hi

Looking into the details it looks like the effected cutter might have cutting issues which the new cutter will solve – it might be the reason for the Poland fatality or not but based on the polish report & if there is any kind of question marks the unit must be replaced & this is the way AVIACOM decided to go = NEW CUTTERS.

I do not understand the AVIACOM statement of "Must be replaced at next reserve repack or no later than 31 Dec. 2010"

If there is any chance that there is a cutter cutting issue the Mandatory SB must be done before NEXT JUMP!!!

Carry on with that type / model of cutter might put the users in RISK – if AVIACOM make the decision to replace the cutter with a better one it must be done before next jump.

Any comments please.

Be Safe !!!

[councilman24 37]

Shlomo,

I agree with you that I'd go ahead and have the cutter replaced right away. But Aviacom has determined that they believe at the next repack is good enough. That's their descrition. They don't believe the cutter failed to cut the loop in Poland. This service bulletin gives users the opportunity to make the choice for themselves. A user can always have the next repack early/now.

You and I agree on what we'd recommend to our customers. What Aviacom chooses to require is up to them.

I'm glad to see them replacing the cutters free even though they don't agree with the Polish report.

Your choice of english I believe is sometime confusing to Americans. Your statements "must be done before NEXT JUMP!!!" seem to imply that is what the service bulleting says. In fact it is your opinion, which I agree with. I know you know this but others may not.

In Israel you or other authorities may be able to implement you suggestion, and other countries by also require it before the next jump. But in the U.S.A. nobody has the authority to superceed the manufacturer's service bulletin. At least on AAD's.

I look forward to seeing you in Reno in Febuary. It's been to long old friend.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

Does anyone have the steps needed to get a new cutter for free? I have a few customers that will be needing new cutters it looks like.

I have an email from Karel Goorts telling me I must return a cutter to them to get a new one.

The message did not say where cutters here in the USA must be sent.

If they must go to Belgium, that's going to take some time, and the rig will be down in the meantime.

I hope very much that they'll give this some additional thought.

I also sent an email to Mike Gruwell at Chuting Star. Maybe since they are a service center, they'll be able to help make this less inconvenient.

I'll post if/when I learn more.

[koppel 4]

As a dealer I carry a stock (albeit a small amount) of cutters so those of my customers that need them urgently, ie cameraflyers/instructors etc will be getting those and then I will send them back express and then replace as people require.

Those that stock Argus will also have stock units on the shelf and they can pull cutters off them in the mean time as well.

As much as I hate the cost of the shipping I figure I will bear it as part of a business cost. I made a small amount of cash selling the units so now I bear the cost. Customer service counts.

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[chutingstar 1]

Quote

Quote

Does anyone have the steps needed to get a new cutter for free? I have a few customers that will be needing new cutters it looks like.

I have an email from Karel Goorts telling me I must return a cutter to them to get a new one.

The message did not say where cutters here in the USA must be sent.

If they must go to Belgium, that's going to take some time, and the rig will be down in the meantime.

I hope very much that they'll give this some additional thought.

I also sent an email to Mike Gruwell at Chuting Star. Maybe since they are a service center, they'll be able to help make this less inconvenient.

I'll post if/when I learn more.

We're trying to get the logistics of this as you are. We only had several cutters that could be pulled from new units on the shelf, and those have already been claimed. So ChutingStar as well as Para-Concepts is hoping to have a stock of cutters in the U.S. to minimize down times for Argus owners. But as of now, we don't. Right now, we recommend contacting Aviacom directly for the exchange.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[riggerpaul 1]

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Quote

I also sent an email to Mike Gruwell at Chuting Star. Maybe since they are a service center, they'll be able to help make this less inconvenient.

I'll post if/when I learn more.

We're trying to get the logistics of this as you are. We only had several cutters that could be pulled from new units on the shelf, and those have already been claimed. So ChutingStar as well as Para-Concepts is hoping to have a stock of cutters in the U.S. to minimize down times for Argus owners. But as of now, we don't. Right now, we recommend contacting Aviacom directly for the exchange.

Mike

Thanks Mike.

I'd really like avoid sending anything to Belgium if at all possible.

Having to send a cutter before getting one is a big pain, but it would be a lot less so if the cutters were available in the US.

Forcing downtime on the owner is bad enough. Forcing him to be down for weeks, as would be necessary if we have to go all the way to Belgium, is just adding insult to injury.

Please let us know if/when better arrangements become available.

[RIGGER 0]

Hi

Terry, all I said in bolt is IMO but I put it in bold to make it clear & catch the readers eye - no the SB does not say that but at next repack or till 31 Dec. 2010 which I disagree.

Cutters were replaced for a reason - even done for being on the SAFE side only it is a good reason.

For being on the SAFE side for me is STOP using the cutters in question.

I do not have to deal with that here in Israel - we do not have these units here.

If I would have to deal with it I would stop the units & give the owner/s a different AAD from what I have to keep them airborne - in Israel AAD is mandatory for skydiving.

Terry, you do not need the FAA or the law to do logic steps which might eliminate the next issue & it is good for any subject with question marks in the rigging & skydiving areas. Yes, I know it is different in the USA or at other places & I also know that others will agree with me as well.

See you at PIA 2011

Be Safe !!!

[riggerpaul 1]

I have received an email from Aviacom that says they are working to arrange for the service centers to have cutters.

The email says there are service centers in the USA, Australia, and New Zealand.

Those of us who can utilize the service centers won't have to send cutters to Belguim.

I'll post when/if I hear anything more.

[erdnarob 1]

FYI, the last Technical bulletin in Canada #96 mentions that all Argus cutters made from January 2007 to October 2007 should be removed for replacement. The cutters to be replaced have the batch identification "JAN 2007" written on a sticker on the cable near the control box. This is the agreement between Aviacom, the Argus maker and the French Parachute Federation.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Skybear 0]

All Argus-users please make sure that you have the cutters replaced. There was another misfire in Portugal where the loop was jammed in the cutter. Luckily it happened before the instructor was checking the student, and he realized that the Argus display was blank. The student landed with the plane and after the landing the rig was inspected. What they found seemed to be exactly the same what has happened in Poland.

[jurgencamps 0]

Quote

All Argus-users please make sure that you have the cutters replaced. There was another misfire in Portugal where the loop was jammed in the cutter. Luckily it happened before the instructor was checking the student, and he realized that the Argus display was blank. The student landed with the plane and after the landing the rig was inspected. What they found seemed to be exactly the same what has happened in Poland.

This story and unsharp picture contains a lot of strange info that needs some explanation.
A misfire during the climb to altitude?
Have you looked at the reservepin? Strange angle.

Do you have a better picture?

[Skybear 0]

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A misfire during the climb to altitude?
Have you looked at the reservepin? Strange angle.

Do you have a better picture?

1.) It must have fired sometime between switching the unit on and the student being double-checked during climb to altitude. That 's all that can be said.

2.) Yes I did. It might have been bent from the reserve-pc putting pressure on the pin after the loop being not fully cut. The cutter was checked because the reserve container looked "strange" when the student was back on the ground.

3.) All the pictures I saw are of bad quality, but I have one more from the cutter which is a bit better. See attachment.

I do not know whether this cutters were already replaced before the incident, however: Please make sure that all cutters which are concerned by the SB are replaced!

[Scootersv 0]

Indeed, your story mate contains a lot of strange info that needs to be elaborated as a minimum with all the circumstance surrounded the incident explained along with the ‘expert statement’ you made. I understand your concern about the safety of Aviacom product users, but next time before making such an announcement it’d be quite handy for the community to post an additional info, so there’ll be more or less clear picture of what actually happened. I’d say first hand info would be highly appreciated too. Has the report been submitted to the manufacturer? If so, what was their response then? I’m sure there’ll be quite a few people interested.

P.S Out of curiosity: what AAD do you jump with?

[TrojanHorse 0]

Quote

All Argus-users please make sure that you have the cutters replaced. There was another misfire in Portugal where the loop was jammed in the cutter. Luckily it happened before the instructor was checking the student, and he realized that the Argus display was blank. The student landed with the plane and after the landing the rig was inspected. What they found seemed to be exactly the same what has happened in Poland.

Quote

1.) It must have fired sometime between switching the unit on and the student being double-checked during climb to altitude. That 's all that can be said.

2.) Yes I did. It might have been bent from the reserve-pc putting pressure on the pin after the loop being not fully cut. The cutter was checked because the reserve container looked "strange" when the student was back on the ground.

3.) All the pictures I saw are of bad quality, but I have one more from the cutter which is a bit better. See attachment.

I do not know whether this cutters were already replaced before the incident, however: Please make sure that all cutters which are concerned by the SB are replaced!

Sebastian,
Your statements above are there for one reason only and that is to bash any other AAD than the one you are using yourself. Your comments in the past speak for themselves.

Concerning Portugal:
- It was not a misfire.
- The unit (set in Novice mode) activated during a too fast descent because it hadn’t been switched off by the student’s instructors.
- The display was blank because it was broken due to proven rough handling (cable torn out).
- Because of the blank screen the instructors assumed the unit was off. This is wrong, the instructors should not have assumed but informed the pilot to make a calm approach as a student is onboard.*
- This incident took place early September and you know that. You imply not to know if this is a replacement cutter that failed. You know it was not. It was a cutter that falls under the current preventive SB.
- This incident is not even remotely similar to the fatality in Poland.

There is more to this story that is currently under investigation. We are still waiting for a report from the DZ where the incident happened (we only received an email and the unit back) To investigate further I have requested to the DZ manager involved now four times for his report and additional information. So far no reply.

All replaced cutters are tested upon return. We will inform the community about the outcome as soon as all tests have been completed. The testing is done by an independent laboratory.

William
Argus


*(After switch on, all AADs work autonomously from their display. Blank screens are no guarantee an AAD is off)

[ast4711 0]

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William
Argus

I don`t have any opinion to share in this case, but I just wonder why someone, who seems to be somehow representing a manufacturer, needs to login to this board as "TrojanHorse"....
If I would represent a company, especially in such an important case (possibly), I would do everything to make shure my messages are distributed as professional and trustworthy as possible....

alex

[Skybear 0]

William,

I am concerned about people not changing faulty cutters before their next jump. As you stated yourself the cutter in Portugal was from that faulty production batch. Why does the SB say that the cutters have to be replaced at the next repack or at latest 31st Dec. 2010? Why not immediately? Obviously they are prone to jamming loops and that can kill people. If it happened with any other AAD you could just replace the brand name in my postings, even if it was a Cypres.

Once more: My concern is the SAFETY of the skydiving community.

[TrojanHorse 0]

Hi Alex,
I use this name for several years now. By now replying under another name, that would raise questions.

That's why.

[TrojanHorse 0]

Sebastian,
This discussion is about two months too late. By now the majority of cutters is been replaced.

The cutter actually (the whole incident) of Portugal is under investigation. And I receive little to none cooperation.

Back then we chose for the replacement before December 31 (or next repack whatever comes first). What we have seen and know so-far we have no reason to change that.

William

[piisfish 140]

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Back then we chose for the replacement before December 31 (or next repack whatever comes first). What we have seen and know so-far we have no reason to change that.

William

Hi William,

will this portuguese event push Aviacom to change the date of application to be "immediate change" ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Skybear 0]

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Back then we chose for the replacement before December 31 (or next repack whatever comes first).

A clear statement, but it does not answer my question. Why did you choose so? What were the facts that supported you in making this decision? I am not asking for a full explanation, just for some key facts which give a better answer than "What we have seen and known..."

Thanks!
Sebastian

[spootch 0]

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Back then we chose for the replacement before December 31 (or next repack whatever comes first). What we have seen and know so-far we have no reason to change that.

William

Hi William,

will this portuguese event push Aviacom to change the date of application to be "immediate change" ?

Also would you say you now agree with the Polish authorities findings?
Thats twice now someone has gotten a picture of a loop that was not cleanly cut regaurdless of how it activated. I would think "immediate change" would be the right/ safest thing to do.