What religion are you?

[jkm2500 0]

Only those who have been on the receiving end will know. Those who haven't can only imagine. A more disconcerting sound is the sound of an RPG impacting less than 20 feet from you, or incoming 120mm mortars.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[jkm2500 0]

Dave,

There are arguments that could be made both for or against any one religion. My comment is directed toward the definition of faith. You quoted the bible saying:

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1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

The definition is perfect. I know that the Lord exists. I know that Jesus died on the cross so that the gates of heaven could be opened. I know that Jesus took upon the sins of the world so that God could be merciful and forgive us of our many sins and shortcomings. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know that there are modern day prophets on the Earth. You are going to say how do I know these things? Well, let me quote from the Book of Mormon. Moroni Chapter 10, verses 4-7.

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4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true•; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real• intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth• of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know• the truth• of all things.

6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.

7 And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according• to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.

Those can be found online at http://scriptures.lds.org/moro/10

That pretty much means that anyone can experience personal revelation. Which also means that I cannot prove how I know the things that I know. You have to be willing to put in the work and have the faith to get the answers that you are looking for.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[jkm2500 0]

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Years ago while on a business trip to American Fork, Utah I picked up a book about Porter Rockwell and the history of the Mormon religion. I'm just curious if the religion teaches about this man in particular and its history in general.

Johnny,

I think that it is funny when people point out the bad apples in each crowd and claim that the group is just like them. That is the 'guilt by association' thought process. I don't know a whole lot about Porter Rockwell. I am sure that I could do some more research and find out about him. But that wouldn't prove to me that the gospel of Christ is wrong, just that this guy lost his focus some where along the way. Just to point out another couple of zealots that lost focus. The Lafferty brothers are currently serving life sentences for murdering another one of their brother's wife and infant child. There are plenty of examples in any religion of people losing faith. For example, the scandal that occured recently in the Catholic Church. Think about that for a minute or two if you would.

Josh

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[JohnnyD 0]

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I think that it is funny when people point out the bad apples in each crowd and claim that the group is just like them. That is the 'guilt by association' thought process. I don't know a whole lot about Porter Rockwell. I am sure that I could do some more research and find out about him. But that wouldn't prove to me that the gospel of Christ is wrong, just that this guy lost his focus some where along the way. Just to point out another couple of zealots that lost focus. The Lafferty brothers are currently serving life sentences for murdering another one of their brother's wife and infant child. There are plenty of examples in any religion of people losing faith. For example, the scandal that occured recently in the Catholic Church. Think about that for a minute or two if you would.

Josh

It was not my intention to say that Porter Rockwell was a bad apple or that he somehow has any bearing on anyone currently following the faith. He was actually portrayed in the book as a great and loyal friend to Joseph Smith and sort of a product of the times (settling the west). I was simply curious as to what is taught in terms of history and the men who founded the religion. Nothing more. I find it much easier to relate to the LDS history because it is more recent and plausible to me than other religions with origins in ancient times.

[jkm2500 0]

Johnny,

From my understanding Porter Rockwell was a close friend of Joseph Smith. He was Smith's bodyguard for a while. After Joseph Smith death, Porter Rockwell gained notariety for being a gunman. From my understanding he was considered a zealot by today's standards. But then again he was just standing up for what he thought was just and true. A couple of articles that I found online:

http://www.media.utah.edu/UHE/r/ROCKWELL,ORIN.html

http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/orrin.htm

tell me what you think

Josh

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[JohnnyD 0]

That's pretty much what the book said, just with a different slant. He was actually a neighbor and childhood friend of Joseph Smith. It seems that he wasn't very different than any other frontiersman with the exception of the Boggs shooting. In the book, the great furor wasn't over the fact that Boggs was a governor but the fact that his children were in the room with him when it happened. Interesting that it was never proven - kind of like the OJ of his time.

[AggieDave 6]

Easy there buddy. I've read the book of Mormon, I know what you believe.

I'm just trying to get you to step outside of the religous dogma and evaluate whats going on.

That goes for ANY religion. I don't care if you're apart of the Church of the Flying Saucer, if you don't actually evaluate your beliefs from a non-biased view point in terms of faith, then you're following blindly.

If you're following blindly, how do you know what you believe is actually what you believe and not what others are telling you to believe.

Being blind sheep in the religous context is dangerous, people have fallen into that trap since the dawn of time. Wars have been fought, people's lives ruined, etc. Nevermind the heated debates around a fire after a jumpday.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[canopycandy 0]

Does anyone else find their church in skydiving?

I'm being serious here. I've found that skydiving deepens my spirituality.

Anyone else?

[kelel01 1]

Goodness knows that it did when I first started. Now I just think it's a blast, although I do feel a lot of serenity on the plane ride, which is weird. Well, I feel serenity if the ride is comfortable-- 9 people in a porter for 30 minutes to 14k, no serenity, just pain.

Kelly

[jkm2500 0]

Dave,

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I'm just trying to get you to step outside of the religous dogma and evaluate whats going on.

That goes for ANY religion. I don't care if you're apart of the Church of the Flying Saucer, if you don't actually evaluate your beliefs from a non-biased view point in terms of faith, then you're following blindly.

If you're following blindly, how do you know what you believe is actually what you believe and not what others are telling you to believe.

Being blind sheep in the religous context is dangerous, people have fallen into that trap since the dawn of time. Wars have been fought, people's lives ruined, etc. Nevermind the heated debates around a fire after a jumpday.

I completely agree.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[Zennie 0]

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Atheism does not require faith

Actually, it does. A true Atheist has faith that there is no deity (or deities).

Which is why I'm Agnostic. I can neither rule it in nor out because I have proof of neither.

It makes me wonder how many people who call themselves Atheists are in actuality Agnostic.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[Dougjumper 0]

You Mean you believe in Joseph Smith.
The Mormon church was first based upon him.
You believe in the Gospel but not the Whole Gospel.
Jesus Christ was a good man but according to
Mormon Faith not the Messiah.

There is and never will be a second Bible.
Jesus Christ died for all mans Sins and gave Man
a second chance. He offers all Men and Women
the Choice and I mean Choice at Eternal life.
The Choice is Yours. As far as the Bible there has
and always will be controversy. But you may find
Satans best work is through deception. To deceive
men in their minds etc. Jesus said my Yoke is easy.
I find it the easiest to believe in. Much harder to believe in other Cults,Ocults,Religions etc.

You will find if most peolple read their Bible.
Holy Bible that is, Gods Word is that no man shall add
or take away to what is written...

The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all.

[kelel01 1]

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Jesus Christ was a good man but according to
Mormon Faith not the Messiah.

Where did you get this load of balogna?

Kelly

[kelel01 1]

And Joseph Smith founded the LDS church-- we do not worship him.

Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but the Bible is made up of MANY books. It is not one whole piece. The additional scriptures we have are just more books to add to the multitude present in the Bible. Many of them are from the same time period in a different part of the world, including immediately following the resurrection.

Kelly

[Dougjumper 0]

Through Mormon Belief Bible

The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all.

[Zennie 0]

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Through Mormon Belief Bible

Doesn't seem like the most objective of sites.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[kelel01 1]

Yeah, that looks legit.

Try this: http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1082-1,00.html

Kelly

[jkm2500 0]

Doug,

You have some interesting beliefs about the Mormon religion. I appreciate your views, but the bottom line is that you are misinformed. I posted a link in the first post in this thread. You might want to check it out.

I will entertain your thoughts, but please ask questions. It is somewhat impolite for you to profess what my beliefs are, considering that you don't know what is really going on in my head.

Joseph Smith was the founder of the Mormon religion. He was the first prophet of the Mormon church. The Mormons believe that the holy priedthood was restored to the earth through JS. He was a good man, but is not worshipped in the LDS faith.

Jesus Christ is the Messiah. He suffered and died on the cross so that the gates of heaven could be opened, and man might be saved. Through the atonement, Jesus took upon himself the sins of this world so that God could be merciful, and we could be forgiven. That way we could return to our Heavenly Father after this mortal life.

The Book of Mormon is not a second Bible. It is another testament of Jesus. It is the history of a group of people that left Jerusalem, and came to a "new world".

From here, I ask that you say what you believe to be true about your religion, and not what you believe is false about the mormon religion. I do not claim to know what you believe. I do not claim that I am right, and you are wrong. I know what I believe. But, I think that your last post was in poor taste. Please ask questions. I think that you fear what you dont know.

Josh

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[Dougjumper 0]

No personal attacks here whether you believe
my post was in poor taste or not.
I simply like to inform Americans of their
options and like most read between the
lines.

Like I said there are many false Doctrines and Religions.
Whether they want to know the Truth or not
Jesus is the same Yesterday,Today and Forever...
And Satan is always..always a Lyer a Cheat and
Deception Artist...

PEACE ME SKYDIVER FRIENDS...

The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all.

[3ringheathen 0]

Quote

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***Atheism does not require faith

Actually, it does. A true Atheist has faith that there is no deity (or deities).

Which is why I'm Agnostic. I can neither rule it in nor out because I have proof of neither.

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Are you agnostic about Santa Claus, leprechauns, car key gnomes and such?

Or do you operate on the reasonable assumption that such creatures don't exist?
You can't prove that leprechauns don't exist.
I bet you feel comfortable stating that they are fictional.
What is different about the concept of god?

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It makes me wonder how many people who call themselves Atheists are in actuality Agnostic.

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My guess would be very few. I think it's far more likely that many agnostics are in fact atheists that have misconceptions about what atheism means.
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

• Quote

[pdj6p 0]

Doug, I can definaitly tell you as a mormon I accept Christ as my personal saviour who took upon himself all the sins of the world that we might be saved. Joseph Smith was a prophet who testified of jesus christ and is not worshiped as god in this church.

as far as what you quoted "Satan is always a lyer a Cheat and a Deception Artist."
mabey you need to question where you got your information on mormons from because they sure seem to be lies.

Death is so permanant, and I'm just not ready for that kind of committment.

[Unstable 9]

I agree..... The website you are looking at does not appear to be a very objective website at all -

Look at Our Churches 13 Articles of Faith - those our our tennants, our basis for our religion.... See if you can find them yourself, maybe you'll come across some other useful information on your way.....

=========Shaun ==========

[Unstable 9]

I get very frusterated when other Christians are tellling me what I really believe in when I tell them that I am Mormon.

"No No No No, Let ME tell YOU what YOU really believe in...."


Come on people, us LDS folk are not misinformed or misled, give us enough credit to at least have an intellictual discussion with us......

=========Shaun ==========

[Dougjumper 0]

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as far as what you quoted "Satan is always a lyer a Cheat and a Deception Artist."
mabey you need to question where you got your information on mormons from because they sure seem to be lies.

Ok I will be sure to check my info more correctly
sorry If I offended anyone...

On the other side clearly the Holy Bible is Enough
for a True Christian, nothing more...

If you feel like you have to get a last word in
go ahead im done...Let Americans pick their faith..
Good Day..

The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all.

[WrongWay 0]

Hmmm......I'm either agnostic or deist, but not sure which.

Either way, it's all good, I'm happy with my spiritual side or lack thereof.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.