real tv bounce vid

[JohnRich 4]

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this show happened to have a vid about a 13 year old in columbia making a skydive.

Let me just make this clear, because I don't think some people have understood this correctly.

The video in question was of a jump made in Columbia - the country in South America.

This was not in Columbia, South Carolina, or any other "Columbia" in the United States.

Thus, certain comments about the type of gear, and age restrictions, may not apply, since the country involved is not the U.S.

[DJatLarge 0]

I'm kinda a rookie to skydiving........ but I've noticed a few trends. Sure accidents happen occasionally, but it tends to be the people that are just being stupid... (like this kids parents) that really tarnish the sport. At times.... Darwin is right!

[Ron 10]

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I like the idea of having them with me. I like the idea of them being interested in a legal sport, instead of anything illegal, be it drugs, truancy, mailbox baseball, ect.

Funny I did most of these things with one of Mikes kids....

So maybe it does not work that well....In fact I had not been around drugs till I was at a DZ.....

I have many good stories about drugs and all kinds of illegal stuff. All from DZ's.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[airdweller 0]

> I'm kinda a rookie to skydiving <

Hopefully you will be in this sport for a long time. If you are you will probably end up burying a friend or two, like a lot of people on this site have had to do, and you might start thinking that there is much more to it than

> Darwin is right <

Peace
Tom

------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[base698 19]

Sorry but it's Colombia, South America and Columbia, SC.

[elfanie 0]

Ya'll keep talking about age requirements for jumping...

what about for a tandem jump? do you think it would be ok for a 13 year old to do a tandem? What about a 10 year old? 5 year old? 2 year old?

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[RevJim 0]

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I like the idea of having them with me. I like the idea of them being interested in a legal sport, instead of anything illegal, be it drugs, truancy, mailbox baseball, ect.

Funny I did most of these things with one of Mikes kids....

So maybe it does not work that well....In fact I had not been around drugs till I was at a DZ.....

I have many good stories about drugs and all kinds of illegal stuff. All from DZ's.

Sure, I've seen it around Dz's too, but minus the peer pressure. A simple No, and it seems to disappear from view. Sure, you know the ones that do it, but when you make it plainly known you don't want it, and want it nowhere near you, it stays away.

I don't have that kind of control over my own life, much less my childrens, anywhere else.

Just being at the DZ isn't going to be enough, of course. It takes parenting. But the right parenting, along with the right attitude and atmosphere can make the difference.

Since you say you did most of that with one of Mike's kids, may I ask who initiated the contact?

Doesn't really matter, one initiated, and one didn't say no. Result? Both guilty.

If you offered to the kid, shame on you, big time.

If the kid offered to you, just exactly why did you accept? nice way to set an example, Ron.

And if, by some strange chance, "most of those things with one of mikes kids" doesn't include drugs, is there a reason you felt the need to drop your maturity level for the rest?

Mailbox baseball?
Truancy?
Drugs?

This from a person who seems to know how to stop hook turn incidents?



The point I'm trying to make, Ron, is the DZ is in general a better place for adolescents than pretty much anywhere else.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[jumpinfarmer 0]

I agree with you 100% on this thread.

[RevJim 0]

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Ya'll keep talking about age requirements for jumping...

what about for a tandem jump? do you think it would be ok for a 13 year old to do a tandem? What about a 10 year old? 5 year old? 2 year old?

There have been many, many underage tandems done, all over the world.

I have not done them(obviously), and seen very few.

Maybe you should pose that question to one of the (presently) greatest freeflyers in the world.

Yea, that's it. Ask Rook Nelson what his opinion is of under 18 tandems.

Ask Jeff Mullins while you're at it.

Note, these people are not the exception, they are just the high profile kids out of hundreds, if not thousands of underage tandems done each and every year.

This has been hashed out over and over and over here.

Given the choice between hangin with me at the DZ or other kids in town, I'll choose the DZ for my kids any day. If that gets them interested, great. If not, that's ok too, but at least I know what's going on in their lives.

Oh, and jumpinfarmer, thanks for the support.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[jumpinfarmer 0]

It seems people like to sell kids short on everything. I'm not saying they can do everything but some are more capable of sports, jobs, tasks, exc. than adults. I know some kids who are better snowmobilers than many adults that I've rode with. I've known kids who worked with there fathers in construction and were better operators than any of the adults. Some of the firefighters sons and daughters in our department are far more help at a fire than many of the firefighters and safer and more knowledgeable to.
I have allways been around adult things and have spent time with kids that were raised the same way and they allways seem to turn out a lot better than the ones that are kept away and told they can't because of there age.
Someday hopefully I'll have a family and don't plan on leaving the kids at home. Where I go they'll go, wether to a tractor pull, snowmobiling, doing everyday farm work, or the DZ they will be there. Thats the best way I've seen yet to get your kids follow in your foot steps.

[Ron 10]

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Since you say you did most of that with one of Mike's kids, may I ask who initiated the contact?

who said it was me or him that started it..It could have, and was another jumper.

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Doesn't really matter, one initiated, and one didn't say no. Result? Both guilty.

Actually one did say no...Me. I don't do drugs...In fact I didn't even drink much then, and don't now.

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If you offered to the kid, shame on you, big time.

If the kid offered to you, just exactly why did you accept? nice way to set an example, Ron.

See I didn't do it, but we were both around it. And we would not have been if not for being there. I would have never even been around it most drugs if not for a DZ.

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And if, by some strange chance, "most of those things with one of mikes kids" doesn't include drugs, is there a reason you felt the need to drop your maturity level for the rest?

Im not going to go into the stories since that would be bullshit to tell..

But as for dropping my maturity level....Well I was in my early 20's...I was not mature.

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This from a person who seems to know how to stop hook turn incidents?

#1. This is a totaly different topic, and
#2. That was 10 fucking years ago..Im not the same guy. So yes, I do know how to help the hook turn problem.

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The point I'm trying to make, Ron, is the DZ is in general a better place for adolescents than pretty much anywhere else.

And the point Im making is it is not. Drugs, sex, death. The only place I have seen "hard drugs" is at a DZ. I have seen 30 years olds sleeping with 16 year olds at a DZ, and I have seen plenty of death at a DZ.

So the DZ is not a safe place for kids....I could be wrong, Im not a parent, but I have been on DZ's for over 10 years now.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[WrongWay 0]

Aw....that is BAD taste. Terrible thing.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[elfanie 0]

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So the DZ is not a safe place for kids....I could be wrong, Im not a parent, but I have been on DZ's for over 10 years now.

well...I am a parent...
and I think this is too much of a generalization to be true.

"the DZ"....WHAT DZ?

We have our home DZ for specifically the reason that it is "kid-friendly". Only thing there that I have seen is language (which my children are aware of - and I don't think that is something that will harm them. nobody is harmed by hearing a bad word.) and alcohol (and by the time the alcohol comes out...usually they are tucked into bed by then.)

I'm sure there are other DZs that have other things that kids can become exposed to...each DZ is different. There is a big DZ not far from where we jump - a pretty major DZ - but we don't go there. Not because it's not a fantastic DZ! but because it's not "kid-friendly".

Ours is. And I do feel that our DZ is a safe place for our kids or we wouldn't go there. (safe in the aspect of the people...of course things could happen, like anywhere in the world. They could get bitten by a spider...wreck their bikes...etc.)

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[Ron 10]

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well...I am a parent...
and I think this is too much of a generalization to be true.

It may not be true at the one DZ that you have jumped at...But it is true for MANY others.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[elfanie 0]

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well...I am a parent...
and I think this is too much of a generalization to be true.

It may not be true at the one DZ that you have jumped at...But it is true for MANY others.

I will agree with this.
It may even be true for MOST DZs out there.

Just not all.

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[Ron 10]

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I will agree with this.
It may even be true for MOST DZs out there.

Just not all.

I would be willing to bet that someone on your DZ uses drugs.

That someone is an alcoholic.


I could be wrong, but I would bet that I am right...Even in my old "Christian Group" we had drug users.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[elfanie 0]

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I will agree with this.
It may even be true for MOST DZs out there.

Just not all.

I would be willing to bet that someone on your DZ uses drugs.

That someone is an alcoholic.


I could be wrong, but I would bet that I am right...Even in my old "Christian Group" we had drug users.

I would bet that is true as well...
but honestly, I don't care. I don't care what people do as long as they don't do it in front of me or around my kids...so if someone goes into the back and shoots up and I don't know it, so what. that's no different than any other place in the world.

The object isn't to keep the kids from seeing what is out in the world...
the object is to educate them as to what is out there, and try to keep them from doing it themselves.

they WILL run into drugs....it's inevitable unless you lock them in a closet their entire childhood. The thing is..do you have open communication with your child so that 1. they feel comfortable talking to you and 2. they know the reasons to say no.

My son is 8.5 years old. He is in the 3rd grade. Earlier this year, coming off the bus at his elementary school, another kid offered him drugs. My son's response? "No thank you...I'm allergic."
BWAHAHAHAHA!!! I loved it! He came home and told me this..and I thought it was great!!! Good for him!
but to think that it's the last time he will be exposed to drugs....is foolish. They are around...rather than ignoring them, I prefer to deal with them.

Now..in about 10 years we'll see how well it works...but for now, that's the goal.

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[goose491 0]

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I would be willing to bet that someone on your DZ uses drugs.

That someone is an alcoholic.

Oh I'd bet you'd be right. Many a skydiver has an addictive peronality so it can't be uncommone to find the addicted at a DZ. However, generalisation is a very very bad thing Ron.

Here's a generalisation that most won't disagree with however. And that's that skydivers respect eachother, quite possibly more than anyone else. Here's another, skydivers hold to a tight-knit, family-like group.

Sure these things are present at most (I would be willing to bet all) DZs but does that mean that it's a bad place for kids? I don't think so. IMO, a kid at a dropzone will be there with his parent(s), it's not bad, simply to be exposed to these things... It could be a good thing actually, if the parent is aware and teaches the child properly about them.

And I'm willing to bet that these things would 'dissapear' from the childs view the moment anything was said by the parent(s) (in most cases anyway).. ignoring the parent(s) such wishes would just be disrespectful and dumb.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Vallerina 2]

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And the point Im making is it is not. Drugs, sex, death. The only place I have seen "hard drugs" is at a DZ. I have seen 30 years olds sleeping with 16 year olds at a DZ, and I have seen plenty of death at a DZ.

I think that's worth repeating. Most dropzones are filled with more creepy, old men and alcohol than anywhere kids hang out. My parents tried to get me to be a good kid by signing me up for as many dance classes as I wanted. (Oddly enough, about the second I stopped dancing I started drinking! )

I agree...dropzones are not good places for kids to be at.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[freeflir29 0]

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Most dropzones are filled with more creepy, old men and alcohol

Come on....I'm NOT THAT old....and well...I really don't drink THAT much....

[Ron 10]

Befor I skydived at 20...the only drugs I had ever seen was alcohol, and pot.....After being on a DZ for one year, I could add the whole list of dugs I know of.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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And I'm willing to bet that these things would 'dissapear' from the childs view the moment anything was said by the parent(s) (in most cases anyway).. ignoring the parent(s) such wishes would just be disrespectful and dumb.

thats your opinion. mine is different.

I was 20 when I stepped on to my first DZ. I have seen, and done more crazy shit that I had ever thought I would do....I have seen more death and destrution than most normal folks every will, and I have seen more drugs, and more sexual acts than most normal folks would.

Im not saying that a DZ can be a bad place for a kid...but it is NOT void of dangers. I have seen many kids get handed a beer when the parents are not around....I have been asked by kids to buy them beer. I have seen kids walk right up and buy beer from the DZ bar...I have seen kids get handed a joint. I have seen 16 year olds sleeping with 30 year olds.

Simple fact is that kids WANT to fit in...So being around a bunch of drink and drug loving, free spirited, sexually active ADULTS...In my opinion is not a good thing for them...they will want to fit in.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Blahr 0]

Rev
Fact is, theres drugs, sex, and death everywhere.
Thats life. If you do a good job raising your kids and keep in touch with their lives, they are NOT more likely to get in trouble out in the world than at the DZ.

Keeping them physically closer to you doesnt reduce their risk.
Being a good parent does.
One might make a convincing argument for keeping minors AWAY from the DZ because since they wont be jumping, they are more likely to get into some of the more seedy stuff for lack of anything better to do.
I dont care how good your eyes are, you cant see them while you are in the sky

Also, forcing them to stick by you all the time might just give them the impression that you dont trust them. Thats bad too.

[RevJim 0]

Like I said before, it's been hashed out over and over here. Both the skydiving age items and the kids at the dz items.

Asking for an answer is like asking who makes the best rig (Mirage), reserve (PD), Main (Brian Germain), or AAD (your own brain).

We all have different parenting styles, and will probably end up with different results. This can get way too personal, which is where it was going, and also why I decided to step out of this thread.

You all can hash it out, I'm done.

I'll write book after they are all 18+. (13 years)

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[pilotdave 0]

I think a DZ can be a great place for kids to hang out... during the day. At night, definitely not. But if there's anyone doing drugs or even drinking during the day, they have no bidness being on a dropzone. But, just like you've said, all dropzones are different. I jump at a very kid-friendly DZ. Language is the only thing they'd be exposed to. I've been jumping for 5 years and never once seen hard drugs, sex, or death. Not saying they don't happen. Just saying that they don't happen all the time. I have seen little kids learning how to open beer bottles, but that's about as bad as it gets on a normal day. Maybe most people wouldn't find that strange but I was never really exposed to drinking as a little kid so I find it pretty odd.

But to say a DZ is a bad place for kids because they are full of sex, drugs, and death just sounds so out of touch with reality. Sure doesn't sound like any DZ I've ever been to.

Dave