freefli 2 #1 February 16, 2004 So at the dropzone this morning a jumper shows up and checks in with manifest. the person working manifest at the time was the dz manager/S&TA. The manager finds out that this jumper has shown up with a borrowed rig from someone jumper is dating from a neigboring dropzone..no problem.....then we find out it's got a 120 stilleto!!! The manager said no way are you jumping that here. then the usual questions were asked.. who gave it you, where do you usually jump, what were your other canopies before this one? these questions were answered and we then talked to the jumper about all the reasons for not jumping this canopy.. the jumper felt bad about having jumped it when it wasn't the jumpers fault. End result, i lent the jumper my rig with a 150 spectre after asking the jumpers weight, 105 lbs, no gear. this jumper does not get on this site and i would like to give this jumper more feedback than they have gotten from my dz, just to show that this is not just the opinion our dz since the dz that the jumper did the previous jumps at didn't think it would be a problem to be on this canopy. could you respond with what you would say to this jumper if you had been in manifest and first hearing about this........thanks.....your responses will be of great benefit to this jumper.... i'm leaving the names of the innocent ommited for their protection... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #2 February 16, 2004 ST 120 loaded at 1:1 geared up? It's not unheard of actually. But yah, I would be asking about previous canopy training in depth and how many jumps this person had on this canopy already. Say this jumper had been on this canopy since jump 20 I might at least have to observe one jump. But that's only after a long conversation.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #3 February 16, 2004 Seems reasonable if the jumper weighs 80 pounds or so. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #4 February 16, 2004 A rigger friend of mine seriously goofed up her knee and put her bottom teeth through her lip on a Stiletto loaded at 1:1. That's a WHOLE lot too much canopy for someone with 40 some jumps. In fact....I would be a little less worried about them landing it than I would just getting it open or dealing with a mal. One word...Scary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefli 2 #5 February 16, 2004 wing load is one concern, but so is it being an ellipticle. one little panic turn low...........i don't care if the person has taken 20 hours of canopy ground school from the best canopy pilots in the world, nothing can replace the experience of time under canopy, which is what is needed...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SublimeBreeze 0 #6 February 16, 2004 Ive got a pd 170 loaded at around 1:1 I wiegh 160 well gained a few so 165... I fly fine.. Always standup landings no prob at all... No funny business tho... Im not trying to hook it in =D. Normal landing pattern. Ive got 39 jumps. Haven't fallent once yet =D although im sure too one of these days. Peace Edit: blah... didn't noticed it was a stilleto, would that be signifigant enough to be a problem? Sean Sean In Thailand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #7 February 16, 2004 Quotewould that be signifigant enough to be a problem? THAT IS the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PETA 0 #8 February 16, 2004 the stilleto being elliptical is the entire problem in this case. this jumper is loaded a little over 1:1 which is ok with these jump #'s.------------------------------------------------- I love animals.....they taste delicious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AntiPinkChrissy 0 #9 February 16, 2004 Quotethe stilleto being elliptical is the entire problem in this case. this jumper is loaded a little over 1:1 which is ok with these jump #'s. Actually canopies of a smaller size DO NOT react that same as larger canopies loaded at the same wing loading. A Stilleto 120 loaded at 1:1 will react differently than a Stilleto 190 loaded at 1:1. Way to go that your manifest person caught this potentially dangerous situation. The jumper should have been more informed about the gear they were about to jump. ~La La Gang Member #2~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 February 16, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the stilleto being elliptical is the entire problem in this case. this jumper is loaded a little over 1:1 which is ok with these jump #'s. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually canopies of a smaller size DO NOT react that same as larger canopies loaded at the same wing loading. A Stilleto 120 loaded at 1:1 will react differently than a Stilleto 190 loaded at 1:1. I was going to point this out, but it's been done already. Thanks APC!---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jose 0 #11 February 16, 2004 If I recall correctly, a young man died in NorCal last year at Lodi with a stiletto 190 over him. Apparenly a panic turn. He was a very inexperienced jumper and when he bought the canopy at Lodi and went to jump it at a neighboring DZ, Hollister, he was told that he could not jump it there due to the inexperience he had, not only in the sport, but ellipticals. To make a long story short, he decided that he would jump it anyways, regardless of anyone else's experienced advice. End result? Dude dies under that main shortly thereafter at Lodi. Paul had 30 jumps. I dont think the differnce between 30 and 46 is shit, and I believe that this lesson needs to be enforced. Advice to give to this jumper? If you see him again, give him a copy of the incident, even the posts regarding Paul's incident. If he seems like hes going to blow you off because your approaching him with kindness and a non-confrontational attitude, go to the next level. In the middle of the packing area, when said jumper is there, get everyones attention and ask them if they think a guy jumping a stiletto with 30 jumps is asking for a pine box. The statements of many are more powerful than the statements of one. If he still jumps it, fuck him. Just hope that he doesn't kill anyone else in the process. All of this hopefully not needed if the safety guy does his job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SublimeBreeze 0 #12 February 16, 2004 Will someone please explain why the eliptical canopy is so much more dangerous? Thx.. sorry for the newb question, im just really curious. Sean Sean In Thailand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefli 2 #13 February 16, 2004 look here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=84160;search_string=elliptical%20experience;guest=4524334#84160 there are a lot of threads out there regarding this subject. i found this one quickly. look some more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueskyserenity 0 #14 February 16, 2004 Quotelook here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=84160;search_string=elliptical%20experience;guest=4524334#84160 there are a lot of threads out there regarding this subject. i found this one quickly. look some more.I like coconuts. You can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #15 February 16, 2004 And the clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #16 February 16, 2004 QuoteST 120 loaded at 1:1 geared up? It's not unheard of actually. But yah, I would be asking about previous canopy training in depth and how many jumps this person had on this canopy already. Say this jumper had been on this canopy since jump 20 I might at least have to observe one jump. But that's only after a long conversation. Not unheard of? Not at all uncommon for something like this at a DZ we both know. I made my first jump on a Stiletto 150 (WL>1.2) at 38 jumps.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #17 February 16, 2004 ...and EXTREMELY uncommon anywhere else. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
kallend 2,106 #16 February 16, 2004 QuoteST 120 loaded at 1:1 geared up? It's not unheard of actually. But yah, I would be asking about previous canopy training in depth and how many jumps this person had on this canopy already. Say this jumper had been on this canopy since jump 20 I might at least have to observe one jump. But that's only after a long conversation. Not unheard of? Not at all uncommon for something like this at a DZ we both know. I made my first jump on a Stiletto 150 (WL>1.2) at 38 jumps.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #17 February 16, 2004 ...and EXTREMELY uncommon anywhere else. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
