OK Serious Topic Here: How many of YOU are between the ages of 18 and 26? Are YOU ready to go to WAR?

[favaks 0]

Ahhh, so it is about oil and greed?

[crapflinger2000 1]

Well, I think the fact that RF was NOT drafted during a period of war indicates that the draft takes this sort of stuff into consideration.

He WAS of military age before he went to Los Alamos... did you read about how he got 4Fed from the draft after the war for being crazy? Fricken hilarious!

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What would Vic Mackey do?

[billvon 2,990]

>You can only vote if you serve in some capacity.

I don't know if it would be a good idea to have an electorate composed only of people who want to fight. Perhaps there would be other ways to serve (i.e. swapping boxes on ATC radars) but I worry about _any_ attempt to make a chunk of citizens ineligible to vote, whether it's military, nonmilitary, naturalized citizens etc.

[JohnRich 4]

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We live in a free country. A country where you have the freedom to choose the course of action for your life. With that freedom comes responsibility. And consequences.

To just require service from everyone would be a diservice to that freedom. There is another issue. There are some people you would not WANT to serve with. (Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind).

Yes, some people are unfit for sevice, and they are weeded out during induction and the first few weeks of boot camp.

And we're only talking about a draft during a time of national crisis. If our very way of life is in jeopardy, I have no problem with a draft in those circumstances.

I don't think anyone is proposing that all young people be required to serve, even when there isn't a national crisis. In that case, I'm with you - it should be voluntary.

[SublimeBreeze 0]

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fighting wars over oil and greed I will not do.

So, what kind of vehicle do you drive, and how many miles do you drive each year?

Do you have central heat and air in your home?

How many kilowatts of electricity do you use each month?

Those are all valid points. We are in a crisis, and the crisis is in our energy. I like the rest of you use gas to drive my car, (jump out of planes that use gas), I use electricity, However I Oppose the war, I think we have slaughted thousands of innocents because of it. And lost a lot of life because of it. I would not willingly participate in it. I realize that usuing electricity is in some means participating but there is very little I can do about that.

Sean
Sean In Thailand

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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the US Congress is in the process of having the draft re-enacted. This draft would be for ALL people, MALE AND FEMALE between the ages of 18 and 26. If you are in college and are drafted, you will be able to finish your current academic semester and then would be considered ACTIVE DUTY after that.

So you want to live your life in America, enjoying all of its freedoms and prosperity, but you're not willing to serve your country for a few years in a time of national crisis.

If threats and fighting got so bad that the current armed forces couldn't handle the job, and a draft was necessary, I have confidence that enough young people will step forward to do the job. Even if you don't.

That's a wonderful attitude you have there.

Note that the Bills provide for alternative civilian service - you wouldn't necessarily be in the military.

You women wanted equal rights, and this gives it to you. You can step up and serve your country like the men have been doing for hundreds of years.

"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."
- John F. Kennedy

Fuck that! I don't believe in war. I was born here, I did not choose this country to live it. If they want to deport me because I don't want to serve for thier stupid fucking war, then go ahead. I'd rather live elsewhere than fight in a battle I don't believe in.

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Would you prefer to allow the terrorists free territory in which they can plan and organize their terrorist acts against our homeland?

You should have noticed by now, that the fight against terrorism is over there, and not on our own soil. If we pull out over there, they'll be striking us at home.

Which would you prefer?

Right, because you can see the future and know exactly what would happen. Don't speculate. Assumptions make you look like an ass.

Angela.

[TXBLKBEAR 0]

Hey that a bunch of crapppppp. I was on active duty for 10.5 years, I deployed to the first gulf war. I am now in the National guard 1SG/E-8. I was called up to serve another year active duty and just returned. I supervise 142 of the finest 11M infantry soldiers serving today. As a private or sp4 she might be on food stamps but that is her choice! The military provides you with free food and BAQ/VHA (money for rent). Her pay might not be great now but it's much better than most civilian jobs. As for her child, she had the option to get out of the military as a single parent. If she joined and already had a child she had to provide a family care plan to show that she had given up custody or was married at the time. Remember there is no draft yet! so your friend volunteered did she not. Did she look into how much starting pay was? Please!!!!

Airborne!

[billvon 2,990]

>I realize that usuing electricity is in some means participating but
>there is very little I can do about that.

Solar. I generate more than I use now. It's expensive, but I think wars cost more.

[MrBester 0]

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Fuck that! I don't believe in war. I was born here, I did not choose this country to live it. If they want to deport me because I don't want to serve for thier stupid fucking war, then go ahead. I'd rather live elsewhere than fight in a battle I don't believe in.

I'll second that.

IMO serving your country should be mandatory - but you should have a choice (military/civil service).
When I was 19 years old I had to decide whether to serve in the German military or in a civil service program. That was a pretty easy decision. I spent 14 wonderful months working with handicapped children. No guns for me, thank you.
I simply don't ever want to get into a situation where my life (or the fate of my country/the whole world/some similar crap) depends on if I am willing to pull the trigger to kill another human being or not. If some people could show more respect for the beliefs and ideals of others and life in general there would not be the need to fight wars over minor conflicts blah blah blah. Unfortunetaly that's a really Utopian hope.
I am certainly not ready to go to war. I doubt that anyone is. Besides fanatism, war is one of the most senseless and tragic things mankind has ever contributed to this world.

[JohnRich 4]

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Also, JohnRich, I forgot to mention ... funny you should mention the freedoms and prosperity of American citizens. My ROOMMATE is serving in the Army and has an 8 year commitment. She is treated like shit by our country. She is on food stamps and welfare because she gets paid so little. She also has a two year old son. If she gets deployed, what happens to her son if God forbid she didn't come back? Most people serving get paid a little above poverty to serve their country. And also just out of curiosity, have you served your country?

Yep, serving your country means making sacrifices. It doesn't pay much, sometimes you get treated like crap, you have to do things you don't particularly enjoy, and so on. That's part of life in the armed forces.

If she has an 8-year committment, then it means that she got something in return, like a free college education. No one is required to serve 8-years unless there is some deal attached. She made a deal, and shouldn't complain now about what goes with the deal - she knew that in advance when she signed the papers.

And yes, I served five years in the USMC, with two children, living below the poverty line. My pay was $407 per month at first. I worked extra jobs off-base to make ends meet. And I faced the possibility that I could be sent off so that my children would never see their father again. No one promises that serving in the military will be a cakewalk.

Attached: the top part of my draft notice, where the President of the U.S. orders me to report for duty...
(Pardon the low quality - the 60k size limit on images destroys the quality)

[Amazon 7]

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You women wanted equal rights, and this gives it to you. You can step up and serve your country like the men have been doing for hundreds of years.

"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."
- John F. Kennedy

Pssst John.. they never p[assed the Equal Rights Amendment...


But I did and DO take to heart what JFK said back then. Its been an important part of my life. I like the Robert Heinlein school of thought. if you want to be a citizen then you need to DO SOMETHING to give back to the society. Its a very equalizing tenent that would work far better than the idiocy of student deferments and rich boy appointments to highly protected military assignments in units that would NEVER see any form of action as happened in prior years when the South East Asian War Games were being played.

Yes I served my country for 8 years.. and I think EVERYONE should.

[osuskydiver 0]

8 year commitment sounds liek the reserve commitment to me. And if she is in the reserves and that is he ronly income no wonder she is on food stamps. Being in the reserves is not a FULL TIME job unless you are deployed.

And John is right. Everyone in the army gets the G.I. Bill and 100% tuition assistance. Not the Army's fault she is livign her life that way.

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[JohnRich 4]

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Those are all valid points. We are in a crisis, and the crisis is in our energy. I like the rest of you use gas to drive my car, (jump out of planes that use gas), I use electricity, However I Oppose the war, I realize that usuing electricity is in some means participating but there is very little I can do about that.

In other words, you want to have your cake, and eat it too.

If you hate our dependence upon foreign oil so much, give up your car and use public transportation, turn your heater thermostat down to 50 degrees, don't use your air-conditioning in summer, and disable your hot-water heater. Oh yeah, and quit sucking up all that av-gas to take you to 13,000'.

Put your lifestyle where your mouth is.

[JohnRich 4]

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I don't believe in war.

You don't believe in any war, ever?

You don't think that WWII was worthwhile to fight, to keep Hitler from ruling all of Europe?

What do you think should be our response to the attacks against us on 9-11-01 which killed 3,000 of our fellow citizens?

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I was born here, I did not choose this country to live it.

Thank you for your appreciation of all the freedom and prosperity that you were fortunate enough to be born into.

[JohnRich 4]

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I simply don't ever want to get into a situation where my life (or the fate of my country/the whole world/some similar crap) depends on if I am willing to pull the trigger to kill another human being or not. If some people could show more respect for the beliefs and ideals of others and life in general there would not be the need to fight wars.

The history of the world demonstrates that there will always be bad guys willing to start wars in order to advance their own evil purposes.

That will always be true, no matter how nice you try to be. Someone will always still want to kill you.

Given that reality, you can either defend yourself, or do nothing and let the bad guys win.

I'm glad that not everyone is like you, and that many are willing to fight against bad guys, rather than surrendur to them.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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I don't believe in war.

You don't believe in any war, ever?

You don't think that WWII was worthwhile to fight, to keep Hitler from ruling all of Europe?

What do you think should be our response to the attacks against us on 9-11-01 which killed 3,000 of our fellow citizens?

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I was born here, I did not choose this country to live it.

Thank you for your appreciation of all the freedom and prosperity that you were fortunate enough to be born into.

I don't believe in hurting innocents, no. Sorry. That would be like saying that i'm ok with people coming over here and bombing my city because our war-happy president continues to hurt the innocents in other countries. Hate breeds hate. War breeds war. It is an endless cycle.

Oh, and I greatly appreciate our countrymen slaughtering children in Iraq out of carelessness so that I can live in fear of what will happen when they get fed the hell up. ... Thanks.

Angela.

[benny 0]

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If we were fighting the war against terrorism now, with the tools that John Kerry would have allowed the military to have, there would be a lot more fatalities.

Which of these tools of modern war which JK voted against have actually stopped terrorism? Last I checked the two greatest acts of terror on US soil were committed with utility knives, 767s, cow shit and a truck. Which modern weapons do you propose would have stopped those? Until you understand that Iraq was not part of the war on terror but rather a diversion therefrom, this debate is useless.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[JohnRich 4]

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I greatly appreciate our countrymen slaughtering children in Iraq out of carelessness so that I can live in fear of what will happen when they get fed the hell up.

You have hit rock bottom, and continue to dig. You should quit before the hole you are standing in gets any deeper.

So if I understand you correctly, any war in which a single innocent child is accidentally killed, is a war that you think should not have been fought?

And if so, that means that Hitler would rule all of Europe to this day. And that means that the number of Jewish children he killed along the way, would have been even greater.

So now what does this do to your philosophy? Children are killed if you don't fight back, and children are killed if you do fight back!

Failure to fight back against evil, even though some innocents may be accidentally killed in the process, creates an even greater evil.

[Nightingale 0]

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I greatly appreciate our countrymen slaughtering children in Iraq out of carelessness so that I can live in fear of what will happen when they get fed the hell up.

You have hit rock bottom, and continue to dig. You should quit before the hole you are in gets any deeper.

John, I think we actually agree on this one.

[osuskydiver 0]

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Oh, and I greatly appreciate our countrymen slaughtering children in Iraq out of carelessness so that I can live in fear of what will happen when they get fed the hell up. ... Thanks.

Angela.

After reading that I just wanted to take a moment and tell everyone serving our country in any of the uniformed services past, present and future THANK YOU, GOD BLESS, and I appericate it.

I love my country and I love serving in the U.S. Army. HOOAH!

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[Douva 0]

This has been a hot topic of discussion between my sister and me--She's 21, and I turn 24 in two days. Here is my take on it:

I support mandatory service; I always have. If this bill passes in the next year or two, I'll probably enlist, regardless of whether or not I'm still eligible (still young enough) to be drafted because I don't want to see my younger friends and family serving while I enjoy the luxury of having been born a year or two earlier. With that said, I don't want to join the military. I'm 24, working on a career, and no longer interested in joining the military. If this had come along five or six years ago, that would have been a different story. Unfortunately, that's my problem. The timing would be bad for me, but I'd just have to deal with it. The draft has always been an inconvenience. It has always interrupted people's lives. Elvis was drafted. You don't think Elvis had some other things going on in his life?

I am completely against the idea of "alternative service." "Alternative service," like all exemptions, would eventually become an escape clause for the wealthy and the well connected. The poor kids would still be scrapping it out in the trenches while the George W.'s were off baking cookies with inner-city children. "Mandatory service" should mean mandatory military service for all. It shouldn't be a military draft for some and a community outreach program for others. Conscientious objectors could, as always, be put in noncombatant roles. I do applaud the exclusion of most other exemptions from the bill. A lot of people don't realize that the college exemption was done away with decades ago, and many other so-called exemptions, like the "last remaining son" exemption, are just myths. Basically, the current bill simply says that everybody serves--no exceptions.

The biggest hurdle this bill is going to face will be public outrage. Most of the generation "Y" crowd is a little too concerned with their own lives to be worrying about foreign affairs and national security, and you can bet your sweet bippy that very few parents are going to want to face the prospect of their babies being sent off to war. I predict this will be the most divisive issue in the last hundred and twenty-five years or so of American politics. But then again, maybe I'll be proven wrong.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Nightingale 0]

Angela, I'm sorry, but I have to call foul here.

I have friends and family over there fighting, and I can say that every single US soldier I've ever had the honor to meet would never allow women or children to come to harm over "carelessness."

In all honesty, I've never met a group of young people who cared so much.

I'm signing off for a while before I violate the "no personal attacks" rule, because I just about have steam coming out of my ears at the moment.

[kansasskydiver 0]

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Did she look into how much starting pay was? Please!!!!

And for this exact reason my friend is making oh about 20k less than what they told him, and not doing REMOTELY was he was told by his recruiter. Full of lies, WMD my ass, I don't believe in the war either. Yes this country is great, but that doesn't mean that we have to be the biggest and bad-ass to everyone else. There are many just as pleasant and equal spots in the world and you don't see them busting in just because "daddy didn't finish it, Sadam called him a redneck, I'll show him" too many innocent lives and I'll be FUCKING damned if my nephew never gets to meet his father because of some political war bullshit!

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[osuskydiver 0]

Is your friend Active duty or Reserve?

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[kansasskydiver 0]

active

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!