OK Serious Topic Here: How many of YOU are between the ages of 18 and 26? Are YOU ready to go to WAR?

[bch7773 0]

I basically agree with what some of the people have said so far.

If a real war, (i.e. not if we decide to invade iran because we think they have WMDs) but more like if uhhh north korea actually fired a couple nukes at the US, I would gladly participate in the draft.

However, at this point and time, I think that a draft to support this invasion of iraq for "Freedom" would be stupid, and I am totally against it. If we really need that many more soldiers in iraq to finish this, then maybe bush shoulda looked at the numbers before we invaded.

I'm not worried about this current bill, however, since it seems pretty unlikely to pass.
And I'm totally against manditory military service, like in china. Freedom means choice, and that means we shouldn't be forced into the military or some bs park ranger job.
and if you ask me, if they need more people in the military, try paying them better. I think more people might enlist then.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Salamander 0]

I agree that you have to read what you sign. However, if I ask you if you would like to buy my rig for $5.00 and you agree... we have a contract. It may only be a verbal contract, but it is still a contract. If you can prove that all the necessary elements of a valid contract existed, that rig is yours.

I am not a contract lawyer, but I would assume the victim (I know, bad choice of words) has some amount of legal recourse if they can prove the salesperson was lying.

[TXBLKBEAR 0]

You are 100% correct.

But, a written contract supersedes a verbal one every time. We are not talking one or the other, we are talking both.

But good argument anyway.

Airborne!

[Amazon 7]

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But, a written contract supersedes a verbal one every time. We are not talking one or the other, we are talking both

Uh they have to be able to READ the contract

Since so many HS graduates cant even read at grade school level.

[Salamander 0]

OK... now I see where I went wrong.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Nightingale 0]

Angela-

I do not support Bush's war. I want my friends home safe, and believe they never should have been sent there to begin with.

I do, however, know that our troops over there are doing the best they can with the orders they're given, and they would not permit civilian casualties out of simple "carelessness" as you put it. They do care. And frankly, they obviously care a lot more about you than you do about them.

[TXBLKBEAR 0]

Can't argue with that.

I have three Kids in school 2nd, 9th and 12th grade.

Sometimes I would have to correct the teachers notes and send them back.

I moved and this school is much better.

Teachers just don't get paid enough.

Airborne!

[Douva 0]

Here is a really interesting article I found on conscription ("the draft") in the United States and abroad.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1571/6_17/72272413/p1/article.jhtml?term=

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[jdhill 0]

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but...

EVERYONE who joins the military has an 8 year obligation, called Military Service Obligation, and it is served in a combination of Active, Active Reserve, and Inactive Reserve, depending on ones enlistment options...

As to the rest of her situation, I've got a few questions...
1.Active or reserve?
2. Marital Status?
3. Had the child since on active duty? (if active), or did she have him when she enlisted?

There is no reason for any soldier, who is responsible with their money, to be on food stamps.

If she is a single parent, or both parents are military, they need to have a Family Care Plan, that defines what happens to the child in the event of deployment... if htey don't they can be administratively separated

At present,noone is foreced to join, so you make your bed, you lie in it.

I have served, 7 years in the Army.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[osuskydiver 0]

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I don't mean to sound insensitive, but...

EVERYONE who joins the military has an 8 year obligation, called Military Service Obligation, and it is served in a combination of Active, Active Reserve, and Inactive Reserve, depending on ones enlistment options...

As to the rest of her situation, I've got a few questions...
1.Active or reserve?
2. Marital Status?
3. Had the child since on active duty? (if active), or did she have him when she enlisted?

There is no reason for any soldier, who is responsible with their money, to be on food stamps.

If she is a single parent, or both parents are military, they need to have a Family Care Plan, that defines what happens to the child in the event of deployment... if htey don't they can be administratively separated

At present,noone is foreced to join, so you make your bed, you lie in it.

I have served, 7 years in the Army.

J

Everything he said IS true. I agree totally.
I would liek to know more about her situation as well becasue it makes absolutely no sense at all. Any good commander would have stepped in and given the soldier options before the situation could get that bad, and if it continued she would be administratively seperated.

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Angela-

I do not support Bush's war. I want my friends home safe, and believe they never should have been sent there to begin with.

I do, however, know that our troops over there are doing the best they can with the orders they're given, and they would not permit civilian casualties out of simple "carelessness" as you put it. They do care. And frankly, they obviously care a lot more about you than you do about them.

I want your friends home safe, too. I am just not in support of this war. I understand that they are following orders. I do not condemn them for that.

Maybe carelessness needed to be clarified a bit. I am not saying that your friends are walking around with guns shooting children. I am saying that we know that many innocents have been killed as a result of orders. Maybe those orders were not "kill innocents", but, those orders caused and are causing the death of innocents.

I do hope that our troops return safely... I just wish they were called back sooner than later. I don't see the good outweighing the harm here.

take care:)
Angela.

[Nightingale 0]

now that comment made a bit more sense.

your original comment sounded like you thought our troops were killing children because they simply didn't give a damn and didn't take the appropriate steps to prevent it.

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

I'm not sure of all the details but I can tell you this: She was active duty for 3 years, got out for 2 and I think had her child and then went back into the National Guard Reserves. Her ex was (or is) a Marine and is not paying his child support and she is on food stamps. That is all I know at the moment but I will try to find out more details.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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now that comment made a bit more sense.

your original comment sounded like you thought our troops were killing children because they simply didn't give a damn and didn't take the appropriate steps to prevent it.

I apologize for not being more clear, I didn't realize that that was the way it sounded. I do not hate the soldiers. I hate the war. I think that the politicians and leaders of our country have poor decision making skills and are too trigger happy.

jmo.
Angela.

[kallend 2,026]

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But the draft was on during WWII.

They were not of Draft age were they?

A lot of great people did get drafted and did great things in the war. We could what if all night long.

But, I do understand your point and respect you for it.

Yes, they were both of draft age (which extended much longer at that time. However, Feynman was mid 20s and draftable, Turing in 30s and draftable in the UK.

I just picked those two out as well known people. The scientific and military research extablishments had lots of draftable young people, exempted from military service for very good reason - they were far more valuable doing that than being cannon fodder like poor old Moseley in WWI.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nbblood 0]

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Oh, and I greatly appreciate our countrymen slaughtering children in Iraq out of carelessness so that I can live in fear of what will happen when they get fed the hell up. ... Thanks

This angers me to no end. I would be quite offended, but I take resolution in the fact that you very obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You've never been there, you have no clue what our presence means to the Iraqis. I guess it's real simple for you to only consider your own welfare and beliefs. I suppose, to you, we are all murderers. You don't have any clue what it means to have your life on the line. You don't know what it means to have to live with something when accidents inevitably happen. Go ahead, believe anything CNN and any self-interest group waves in your face, but only if you really want to believe.....don't worry about actually being there and seeing for yourself, that won't serve your interests anyway.

I can't believe this whole thread has gone this long. There are NO plans to enact the draft within the military. Trust me if it ever gets close, there will be indications within the military....not just some bill in congress. There are none.

Go ahead and believe the media on everything else if you want. Trust me, they are very rarely ever anywhere near accurate reporting on the Iraq and Afghanistan situations. How do I know? Because I've been there and I correspond daily with people that are there.

People this is an election year, you WILL hear all kinds of crazy shit and most of it will not be true. Unbelievable to me what "open minds" can dream up some time.

Blues,
Nathan

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[kallend 2,026]

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This has been a hot topic of discussion between my sister and me--She's 21, and I turn 24 in two days. Here is my take on it:

I support mandatory service; I always have. If this bill passes in the next year or two, I'll probably enlist, regardless of whether or not I'm still eligible (still young enough) to be drafted because I don't want to see my younger friends and family serving while I enjoy the luxury of having been born a year or two earlier. With that said, I don't want to join the military. I'm 24, working on a career, and no longer interested in joining the military. If this had come along five or six years ago, that would have been a different story. Unfortunately, that's my problem. The timing would be bad for me, but I'd just have to deal with it. The draft has always been an inconvenience. It has always interrupted people's lives. Elvis was drafted. You don't think Elvis had some other things going on in his life?

I am completely against the idea of "alternative service." "Alternative service," like all exemptions, would eventually become an escape clause for the wealthy and the well connected. The poor kids would still be scrapping it out in the trenches while the George W.'s were off baking cookies with inner-city children. "Mandatory service" should mean mandatory military service for all. It shouldn't be a military draft for some and a community outreach program for others. .

So you think all the bright young men who worked at Los Alamos and Oak Ridge during WWII were shirking their duty because they just helped win the war by developing the A-bomb instead of charging ashore at Omaha Beach. And the code breakers at Bletchley were shirking too when they could have been fighter pilots. And how about the young guys who developed the cavity magnetron - so valuable to the war effort that the prototype was personally delivered to Roosevelt by Churchill. Much better sending them to North Africa to fight Rommel.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[osuskydiver 0]

To SkydiveNFlorida who thinks we are slaughtering civilians and who has no clue of what the soldiers are doing in Iraq.

TO people who do not believe we are undermanned

This article says it all. Pay attention to where it says what the soldiers are doing and the impatient civilians that do not listen and go around road blocks. and to the supply specialist who is doing the same work as MP's because of being under staffed.

MANY QUESTIONS ANSWERED HERE

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[kallend 2,026]

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Don't feel bad, My first car was a Gremlin.

Hmm - serious doubts now about YOUR judgement.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zenister 0]

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I don't see the good outweighing the harm here.

perhaps you should try to imagine your life with gasoline at 5+ dollars a gallon?

this war IS about American economic stability and maintaining your continued way of life, as well as reducing and deflecting terrorist activity against the American populace, the benefits to the Iraqi people (and believe me there are already a great many benefits they are seeing and their children will live better than their grandparents ever could under Saddam) are a secondary effect..

you seem to resent the comfort their sacrifices provide you

the unfortunate part is the government couldn’t be more honest about their reasons for it...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[rjf98 0]

Zenister... totally off topic here, but I thought your sig was interesting. Reminded me of something I learned in HS though. A mind that is too open catches nothing.

[Zenister 0]

thats a very 'western' idea

i'd say there is no such thing as 'too open'
the idea is to absorb everything..keep that which is useful and discard that which is not..
'void'
'beginners mind'
lacking expectations or
'no intention'

variations of my sig can be found in lots of places, but its a paraphrase of an ideal my sensei expressed often..

"if you have something in your eyes you cant see the rest of the world..."

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 2,990]

>perhaps you should try to imagine your life with gasoline at 5+ dollars a gallon?

When the alternative is this then I am perfectly willing to pay $5 a gallon. Heck, I'd pay $10 a gallon to prevent a few thousand deaths. How many innocent kids would you be willing to sacrifice for $1 a gallon gas?

There are many arguments one can make for this war; people have to pick their reason du jour since no WMD's were found. Removing a tyrant from power, a tyrant who killed tens of thousands, isn't a bad one. Saying that we want cheap gas - that the nearly ten thousand innocent Iraqis killed were worth it so we can drive big trucks and not pay too much - is the worst one I've heard so far.

Within 5 years we could eliminate our dependency on foreign oil; we simply don't care to do it. And thus there is another reason for us to have these wars. War is the worst thing there is; there is nothing worse than the intentional violent slaughter that is at the heart of war. Sometimes it is needed as a last resort. It is NOT needed because we're too lazy to get away from cheap oil.

[SublimeBreeze 0]

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>And if so, that means that Hitler would rule all of Europe to this day.

Godwin's Rule. Any argument where someone feels they must invoke Hitler to make their case is automatically lost by that person. Sort of like the first person to insult someone's mother in a bar.

Good call, Those arguments are useless, There just isn't a apropriate comparison between hitler and anything that is going on today, unless its GWB =P heheh jk

Peace

Sean
Sean In Thailand

[Aviatrr 0]

Well, I'm outside that age range(27), but I feel that if it is necessary to keep our country safe, I'm in favor of it. Hell, I have tried to get into the ANG as a pilot(as well as the Reserves flying helos), and they're full and have waiting lists. If they enacted a draft, and called me....I'd do whatever it takes to get a slot as a pilot, but if it didn't happen, I'd do whatever was required of me to protect my country.

Mike