Air Force Academy on 20/20

[prepheckt 0]

I don't know if you're aware of what has been happening here at the Academy, but apparently we're on 20/20 tonight. I'd like to hear what everybody thinks about the show and situation (I'm sure 20/20 will give a basic run down of what's happened here over the last year). If you could please watch, that'd be awesome.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[slug 1]

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I don't know if you're aware of what has been happening here at the Academy, but apparently we're on 20/20 tonight. I'd like to hear what everybody thinks about the show and situation (I'm sure 20/20 will give a basic run down of what's happened here over the last year). If you could please watch, that'd be awesome.

I haven't watched the show but based on what I've read.

Are you refering to the recent change in command and rumor's of rape and the the fact that a congress person had to get involved to get the issue addressed at least to some degree.

I don't htink this is a witch hunt. The chain of command failed, sending out the same SOP (don't do this or that) every year and then punishing the messenger is B.S.

IMO The scandel at the USAF is a black mark on all officers, and their "moral code".

R.I.P.

[prepheckt 0]

Yes, I am, I was wondering what impression those on the "outside" the fishbowl are thinking.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[juanesky 0]

The message conveyed is not that all of you guys are at fault, but rather a faulty brotherhood willing to cover up that type of behaviour instead of showing the courage to stand for what is right....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[prepheckt 0]

In a sense, I agree and disagree with your statement at the same time. I would say a large portion of us were unaware what was going on. I promise you, if I ever heard of someone doing that to one of my "sisters", his life would not be pleasant. I agree that anyone who allows it to go on, and hides it as well, is not worthy to wear the uniform. I have always tried to hold myself to the highest moral and ethical standards. I admit, I'm not perfect, but I try to better each day. One question that many graduates and cadets are asking is "Is the Agenda for Change really going to solve anything, or is it just to placate the media and public?" That is a question I cannot answer, because while I have a front row seat, it is still early to tell.

I didn't like that they removed the physical and mental stress that was an integral part of the 4th class year. I feel the class of '07 has been cheated out of experiences and the knowledge that they can push themselves beyond any mental and physical limits then they would ever have thought possible.

Because of this whole situation, I am sometimes ashamed to say that I go to the Academy, even though I used to be proud of what I have managed to achieve.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[jumper03 0]

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Because of this whole situation, I am sometimes ashamed to say that I go to the Academy, even though I used to be proud of what I have managed to achieve.

That may be a bit extreme guy. It is what you make of it. You should be proud of it - you've accomplished something many didn't even get a shot at. Don't let others tarnish it for you or they win. Hold it high for all the world to see and the idiot 10 percent will fade away and be forgotten.

Congrats and Semper Fi.

Jump

Scars remind us that the past is real

[bobsled92 0]

IF no one is able to speak up when they MOST need to and can't say NO.
Then how the fuck did they get into the Academy!
This cadet is being used. I feel rapist should be gutted like fish.***The case shown on 20/20 was NOT a rape case in her descirption of events, her choices and actions.
I belive ONE cadet is going to be a scape goat for all things mentioned after an encounter that made her feel embarrassed of what happened when her brother and family would find her act with another cadet.
THe Academy should continue and be 100% separated.
I lived at Valley Forge M.A. '74- '80.
I tried to kill a guy that my sister claimed "date rape" on, to find out that she was ashamed & worried what I would think of "her with him".
She confessed 5 months later, after destroying my chance to ever enter law enforcment.
REALLY have to look at the whole deal before casting stones.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[juanesky 0]

I did not mean for you to be hurt. I think the problem is at the higher levels, not doing their jobs. Most of us know the high standards which you cadets have to follow on your daily lives and what you have to endure.

You should be proud, but in your future career that is just starting you should seek that all of you agree to follow up on the changes, as you will become part of the inner circle.....

It is just that as the press exploits the events from the rotten few, and yet it spills the whole spectrum.

Of course the newer guys will be out of the loop, but then, as a group, and now knowing what is going on, you can all somehow look for peer to peer solutions to these problems. My 2 cts, but what do i know!

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Amazon 7]

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Because of this whole situation, I am sometimes ashamed to say that I go to the Academy, even though I used to be proud of what I have managed to achieve

Dont be Prepheckt... you have achieved a lot and I know that had you known you would have done something about it.
Its not just the academy... it runs the gamut throuout the services but I think it's probably gotten far better in more places than it was say 30 years ago. But never forget that it happens.. and when upper eschelons do nothing about a reported incident then its their shame not the individual who came forward.

[FunBobby 0]

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I didn't like that they removed the physical and mental stress that was an integral part of the 4th class year. I feel the class of '07 has been cheated out of experiences and the knowledge that they can push themselves beyond any mental and physical limits then they would ever have thought possible.

Almost every graduate from USNA, USMA, and USAFA will claim that they had the last real plebe year. Oh, that's right... what do they call your freshmen? Doolies? I agree that much of the harshness that had previously characterized the freshman year of service academies has been done away with, and, in fact, outlawed. Some of that was pure nonsense, but much of what I remember was arguably beneficial. I can't quote him exactly, but during a lecture to the entire Brigade of Midshipmen at USNA during my time there (and with the entire staff present as well, from the Superintendant all the way down) Ross Perot asserted that that a certain amount of hazing, applied in the right manner and at the right time, is good. The true mark of a man is not where he stands and what he does during times of peace; it is his stance and his actions during times of adversity that define him (or her). Such adversity was to be expected during freshman year, and I believe thousands and thousands of Cadets and Midshipmen learned a great deal about themselves and each other and grew tremendously from facing and overcoming that adversity.

By the way, be careful about complaining publicly about the lack of discipline in the freshman ranks because freshman year is too easy. Some graduates, while they may agree, may not be so sympathetic.

God Bless

Bobby
USNA 1993

Edited - typo.

[prepheckt 0]

I agree with you. I'm not complaining about discipline in the freshmen class, or that my year was harder... that is not my point, this is not the forum for that. I don't like that '07 is not being offered that experience. I may not like what happened, but I don't have to like it, I just have to do it and say "Yes sir or ma'am" and follow my orders to the best of my ability.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[Kramer 0]

Wow, this is some pretty deep shit.

I'm going Air Force ROTC soon, I kinda hope this problem is isolated at the Academy.

I missed the 20/20 special tonight, any highlights you care to share?

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[prepheckt 0]

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Wow, this is some pretty deep shit.

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I'm going Air Force ROTC soon, I kinda hope this problem is isolated at the Academy.

I highly doubt it, since most ROTC units are at major colleges.

I would like to compare the Academy's reported rate with other schools, and on a national level to see how prevalent sexual assault really is.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[slug 1]

Hi Prepcheckt

I responded to your E mail earlier based on the past history of the academy leadership failing to address reports sexuall haressment/rape cases in the past.

I live on the west coast and just saw the segment of 20/20 thaqt you refered to so I need to add to what I had previously posted. Based on tonights T.V.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't tell if the case presented on 20/20 meets the definition of rape or not. In a criminal or military court.

What I can tell is that the new leadership at the acedemy has adopted the appearence of zero tolerence where there is a claim of sexual assualt. I don't know if a BAT 12 hr's after the event could have provided objective evidence if the female cadet had given informed consent

All the folks in the service and vets know that the UCMJ has different standards than in the real world.Plus you are being judged by by the military that now has their own agenda.

IMO if your attending the academy keep your pants zipped to try and avoid any appearence of inappropiate behavior, and don't meet with the opposite sex unless there are other folks present so no he said she said.

Hopefully this will keep the Brass from getting invloved and having to make a decision.

I know some folks who have adopted the same attitude in the real world, never be alone with someone elses children, wifes, or women you don't know very well. A lot of women/children get abused and a lot of guy's get wrongly accused.

As far as how this present Air force academy situation reflects on the individual cadets that don't have any skeletons in their closets, don't worry be happy.

Most folks won't judge you by the mistakes made in the past by your peers and leadership. Your present classmates that havent got the message yet won't last not because of the new system, but because their not smart enough to accept the new reality.

The people in the real world that want to consider all cadets sex crazed rapists can think what they want. Most folks will read between the lines and judge all graduates on a individual basis.

Keep your nose clean and be proud when you graduate. My money is sending your butt to school so please don't waste it, and learn how to spell.
R.I.P.