PhillyKev 0 #26 February 11, 2004 Quote professional is about performance. your perceptions of professional is about your prejudices. that is the point. think about it.. What if your job relies on other's favorable perception of you? You're right, it is prejudice, but it's not based on color or birth defect or something else you have no control over. If you make a choice to look a certain way that you know is viewed with skepticism, than be prepared to suffer the consequences of those actions. If that's ok with you, no problem. But don't scream prejudice because someone doesn't take you seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #27 February 11, 2004 You would probably correct if all you are selling is your performance. Businesses are selling the impression of their business to the customer. When you meet the employees, do they seem professional? It is the customers definition of a professional image that matters. The customer has to have confidence in the product and the ability of the business to provide it. Business image has value, if an employee lessens that value, they are reducing income. There is a social aspect also. I do business over dinner. I am not taking a person wearing a stained t-shirt to a restaurant regardless of whether it is clean. Most people have skillsets aren't that unreplaceable. Who signs the checks, makes the rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #28 February 11, 2004 Quote what you define as professional is defined by your prejudice. are mustaches unprofessional? beards? goatees? colored hair? or any hairstyle thats meets a min hygenie standard do any of those affect your job performance? professional is about performance. your perceptions of professional is about your prejudices. that is the point. think about it.. Quote everyone has to open their minds first.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I loath that statement, it's so completely self-congratulatory to those who use it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- to bad its the truth.. Two points: 1) Would colored hair affect my job performance. I'd have to say that it certainly would, as would a number of things. Here in Fresno, if I were to go to a jury trial in rainbow dreadlocks and Teva sandals, I might as well just not show up. My abilities are useless if I cannot "perform" to certain standards. Why don't I point to an example where individuals still toe line. Professional sports are full of individuals. Different hairstyles, tattoos, piercings, etc are found on team members. But when they are on the field, THEY WEAR THEIR UNIFORMS. Maybe a few of them are nudists, right? Maybe a few of the Queens Park Rangers hate the colors blue and white, and wear only red. Why should they have to wear the QPR uniform, eh? Another example of "The Man" holding them back? No. There is a useful and legitimate purpose. They can wear their hair however they like, for their interpersonal skills take a second seat to their athletic prowess (assuming QPR has any). But they wear the uniform. They better. Because it identifies their jobs, not who they are. 2) Opening one's mind is good. Everyone does it. I opened my mind abotu fire when I was 1 year old. I closed it when I found out fire hurts. Opening a mind is one thing, so long as it is closed again on something substantial. Open your mind for too long and your brain will fall out. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pick 0 #29 February 11, 2004 Quote once we as a society get past such ignorant attitudes lots of other equally ignorant attitudes can be banished too... You're banishing that which you don't agree with? Interesting concept. Think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #30 February 11, 2004 Quote Professional sports are full of individuals. Different hairstyles, tattoos, piercings, etc are found on team members. But when they are on the field, THEY WEAR THEIR UNIFORMS. Maybe a few of them are nudists, right? Maybe a few of the Queens Park Rangers hate the colors blue and white, and wear only red. Why should they have to wear the QPR uniform, eh? Another example of "The Man" holding them back? No. There is a useful and legitimate purpose. They can wear their hair however they like, for their interpersonal skills take a second seat to their athletic prowess (assuming QPR has any). But they wear the uniform. They better. Because it identifies their jobs, not who they are. 2) Opening one's mind is good. Everyone does it. I opened my mind abotu fire when I was 1 year old. I closed it when I found out fire hurts. Opening a mind is one thing, so long as it is closed again on something substantial. Open your mind for too long and your brain will fall out. 1. Again a poor example the uniform is a nesseasary part of their job performance. They simply could not function as well without it. Performance based, not perception. 2. and yet another...you have to keep your mind open or it wont work, your experience with fire is based on its actual effects not on its appearance, do you not stick your hand in sunlight because it looks something like fire??? again.. performance vs perception so if the well coiffed shiny lawyer wins and sends the innocent to prison because everyone in the jury based their decision his appearance (someone so well groomed must be right after all ) vs the substance of the case, your ok with that?? prejudice is a fault anywhere..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #31 February 11, 2004 Quote Quote once we as a society get past such ignorant attitudes lots of other equally ignorant attitudes can be banished too... You're banishing that which you don't agree with? Interesting concept. Think about it. no i'm asking everyone to look beyond their prejudices to the substance of the person /or issue. ignorance should be something everyone wants less of....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rudderow 2 #32 February 11, 2004 I went in for a haircut on Saturday. I have long, thick, brown hair. It gets really curly when it's humid out and takes forever to blow dry. It looks good when I straighten it, but that can take a good 30 minutes. I want a change. It was suggested I try dreads. At first I thought it was an awful idea. I used to think they were disgusting until I met my boyfriend's father, who had dreadlocks down to his ass. They were so cool looking! And so much easier to deal with. I do shower and I would continue to wash my hair, so it wouldn't be a cleanliness issue. I am respected by my co-workers and customers and don't feel they would think less of me for my hairstyle. Some may even like it. I know it wouldn't give off the best impression if I were going on a job interview. But I'm not. I have a secure position w/ my company and would not let my hair disrespect anyone. My puppy has dread locks behind his ears. I think think this might bring us closer to have something like this in common maybe even. PMS #165 Swooo #613 CSA #687 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #33 February 11, 2004 Quote the uniform is a nesseasary part of their job performance. They simply could not function as well without it. Performance based, not perception. Exactly! I highlighted "as well." Dreadlocks do not mean a person cannot function at a job. It just means that the person cannot do the job "as well" as without them in many circumstances. This is due to perception. I'll ask you this one. Imagine you are a boss and lookign to hire someone. A well-groomed young man, with a moustache, in good shape interviews. He is fit, articulate and intelligent (and received top marks at uni). You hire him in your customer sales department. He reports for work the next day in a full Nazi uniform. He looks straight out of the Third Reich. HE represents your company, attempting to sell. Will you "open your mind" against the "perceptions" that other have? Or, will you give him a raise for being such an "individual" on your dollar? Let's say it turns out that he volunteers at the Simon Weisenthal Center and his purpose for wearing the uniform is to point out that Nazi's are everywhere, even though he is the furthest from a Nazi. Would you let him continue to wear this uniform, even if you agree with his beliefs? Edited to add: No, I do not associate dreadlocks with that. I'm just giving a hypothetical on "perceptions" and "open minds" My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,541 #34 February 11, 2004 If the length of the locks is reasonably even, and they're kepy scruplously clean, I can see them as being possible in an environment where you don't meet with customers. A headband will give them more of a sense of control for people who don't really understand. I manage a group of programmers, and we have a pretty wide range of acceptable dress. If you meet with customers, you have to look like the person they want to meet with. No ifs, ands, or buts. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #35 February 11, 2004 Quote no i'm asking everyone to look beyond their prejudices to the substance of the person /or issue. Being open-minded just means you are open to listening to other peoples opinions and evaluating them. It is possible that I may be open-minded, listen to you, and still not agree. You are saying that people are pre-judging others based on their appearance. Agreed. A while back Bennigans had a promotion "We're not selling food, we're selling fun." All appearance. Anyone who did not accept their dress code, did not work there. Perception was part of the product. Businesses do sell perception and appearance. They have a definition of what it should be because they want to project an image to their customers. A company defines what is best for its business. Employees accept money for certain obligations. Do you believe that you can accept money, but not do what the company expects of you? They pay you to do what they think is best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MochaSkyChick 0 #36 February 11, 2004 My .02 Locks come in many different styles and length and the type you choose can determine whether it looks professional or not. I’ve met many business women who wear their hair in locks or twists and it does not hinder their professionalism. Just like with any hair style, the style you choose can determine professional or not. You have to be prepared that most people have a stereotype about dreads. So when you say, I’m getting dreads, they may initially have the idea of thick clumps of dirty and matted hair. There are a few websites that show the different types of dreads and twists and explain how they’re created. Clicky PMS #62 Zarza R[red Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #37 February 11, 2004 Hey Chickie, I don't know why I hesitated to post here, but... I had dreads in highschool. I was also branded, "The Queen of the Hippies." I was SUCH a dreaded deadhead. Anyway, yes, in my opinion... they can look way cool. But honestly, they are SO not worth it. They are a pain to maintain. They can be messy as hell at first. You get a lot of strange looks - which I didn't care about back then. Jobs frown on it. And they don't come out... you have to cut them out. My parents almost dis-owned me when I came home from dead tour one summer with dreads in my hair. And you get stereotyped non-stop. Let's just say... I'm a very different person today than i was back then. Very different. But if you want my opinion... they are a lot more trouble than they are worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #38 February 11, 2004 Do what you want and accept the consequences. Your boss has a right to run his business how he sees fit, and if your liberation doesn't fit in, you'll have to decide which is more important to you. It's sad that people get judged on their appearance, but it is a fact of life and if you don't accept that, then you will surely pay a price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #39 February 11, 2004 Quote Quote the uniform is a nesseasary part of their job performance. They simply could not function as well without it. Performance based, not perception. Exactly! I highlighted "as well." Dreadlocks do not mean a person cannot function at a job. It just means that the person cannot do the job "as well" as without them in many circumstances. This is due to perception. I'll ask you this one. Imagine you are a boss and lookign to hire someone. A well-groomed young man, with a moustache, in good shape interviews. He is fit, articulate and intelligent (and received top marks at uni). You hire him in your customer sales department. He reports for work the next day in a full Nazi uniform. He looks straight out of the Third Reich. HE represents your company, attempting to sell. Will you "open your mind" against the "perceptions" that other have? Or, will you give him a raise for being such an "individual" on your dollar? Let's say it turns out that he volunteers at the Simon Weisenthal Center and his purpose for wearing the uniform is to point out that Nazi's are everywhere, even though he is the furthest from a Nazi. Would you let him continue to wear this uniform, even if you agree with his beliefs? Edited to add: No, I do not associate dreadlocks with that. I'm just giving a hypothetical on "perceptions" and "open minds" actually dreadlocks (or any other hair style for that matter) in no way affects the majority of job functions, so there is no 'as well' standard to compare to. What it might affect is the customers perception. If that perception is based on fact and substantial performance it isnt a problem, if that perception is based on ignorant prejudice then it can be. But the real issue is a social one and resides on the customer, you are simply perpetuating it by pandering to their prejudice, if you (your business) chooses to do so for profits sake they are certainly allowed to, it is a free country, but you are only avoiding the real problem of prejudice by saying "i'm conceding to the customers ignorance for the sake of money" even if it is a social reality. very simply Nazi regalia represents political and social stances that are against nearly every american ideal, even as an anti-nazi protest it is a public political statement dreadlocks, or any other hairstyle simply represents a personal (possibly religious) preference, if said dreadhead were pushing any political view on my customers we have a behavioral/job performance issue, not one of the customers perception….try again..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #40 February 11, 2004 Quote My puppy has dread locks behind his ears. yes, and your dog is the ugliest little thing EVER! btw, dont do it, your waaay too white for dreadlocks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #41 February 11, 2004 Dreadlocks just look nasty no matter where you are. Just my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #42 February 11, 2004 Quote Dreadlocks just look nasty no matter where you are. like you have room to talk, your a hairless cat!! you almost look as bad as chewie!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #43 February 11, 2004 Jesus fuckin Christ!! I can't believe that some of you are so SHALLOW to believe that they way you have your hair can represent how professional you are. I guess you must the same people that judge people by the way they look and dress rather than by the content of their character. Dreadlocks, mohawks, a fucking cock shaved into the back of their heads, it makes no difference to how a person perfoms in a professional environment. ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #44 February 11, 2004 Quote Jesus fuckin Christ!! I can't believe that some of you are so SHALLOW to believe that they way you have your hair can represent how professional you are. I guess you must the same people that judge people by the way they look and dress rather than by the content of their character. Dreadlocks, mohawks, a fucking cock shaved into the back of their heads, it makes no difference to how a person perfoms in a professional environment. Most of us aren't judging how people look. We're just realistic that in a business environment, other people WILL. If that's ok with you, do what you want. But you better face reality first....you ARE judged on your appearance in almost all aspects of life, particularly in the business world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #45 February 11, 2004 Quote Jesus fuckin Christ!! I can't believe that some of you are so SHALLOW to believe that they way you have your hair can represent how professional you are. I guess you must the same people that judge people by the way they look and dress rather than by the content of their character. Dreadlocks, mohawks, a fucking cock shaved into the back of their heads, it makes no difference to how a person perfoms in a professional environment. The majority of society judges people based on their appearance. From a business standpoint, that's just the way life is. I know how it used to be. To quote Mike Ness, "It was me against the world, I was sure that I'd win. But the world fought back, punished me for me sins." Been there. Done that. I accept it now. I guess you could say I closed my once open mind. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #46 February 11, 2004 If you don't live in Jamaica and hold some pretty serious beliefs I wouldn't trend dread your hair. sounds to me like you need a Shut up Hippie Cock Punch. (in a good way) Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #47 February 11, 2004 Quote I can't believe that some of you are so SHALLOW to believe that they way you have your hair can represent how professional you are. I guess you must the same people that judge people by the way they look and dress rather than by the content of their character. It's not a matter of how professional you are. It's that going to some excessive length in your appearance such as your mohawk or cock shaved onto your head is done to express who you are. You do that because that's what you're about. So, if what you're about is some elaborate counter-culture haircut then what are you doing in an corporate office unless you're a fake? If you're so counter culture then what's with this 9-5 in a cubicle? Why not work for a non-profit activist organization where this type of self expression shows your dedication to your personal/artistic creed?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #48 February 11, 2004 Quote Jesus fuckin Christ!! I can't believe that some of you are so SHALLOW to believe that they way you have your hair can represent how professional you are. I guess you must the same people that judge people by the way they look and dress rather than by the content of their character. Dreadlocks, mohawks, a fucking cock shaved into the back of their heads, it makes no difference to how a person perfoms in a professional environment. Oh yeah, and people also judge by how you communicate and just how excitable you are and if you're prone to unnecessary profanity. I assume that, at least, has more substance than just cosmetic issues. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #49 February 11, 2004 Have you thought about asking your boss about the dreadlocks? Or is that too easy? FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
