hanging harness

[petejones45 0]

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in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)

if you were to read my post rather than the first sentence you would see what i was trying to convey

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[TiaDanger 0]

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even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)

You are discussing two different things...first you believed its better to do the 'one hand per handle' approach, then you begin talking about an instance where a gear failure resulting in a main not fully disonnected. The quote you made above has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

I would not fire my reserve into a main that was fully cut away unless I was 'knocking-on-deaths-door-low'. I would do everything I possibly could to get that main off of me before I play rushin roulette by deploying my reserve into a ball of shit. I personally do not use (and was taught against using) the one hand per handle approach that you suggest.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[firemedic 7]

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in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)

THAT'S really BAD advise.

No offence intended, but until YOU are a well qualified and current INSTRUCTOR, please do yourself and the sport a favor and refrain from giving instructional advise.

Right On Brother

[thrillstalker 0]

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Some schools teach students to completely strip cutaway cables before shifting eyes ad hands to reserve ripcord.

that seems like it would be alot of wasted time, i beleive you should keep one hand on the chop pilliow and one on the reserve handle.

the two hand method is used to make sure you get a clean cut away.

i have never chopped but that is the way i practice my ep's.

i was picking up a load of jumpers a few weeks ago and one of them had just had a reserve ride. the jumpers cut away cables didn't come all the way out before he fired his reserve. he got lucky and managed to get rid of his main before an entanglement.

a very experienced jumper saw it from the air and said he thought he was going to witness a fatality.

everyone here is trying to give you advice because of situations they have been in/seen.

i have very little experience in skydiving, but i know when to keep my mouth shut and my ears open.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[d100965 0]

Just a quickie, but before we continue this topic can we just read the following sentence....

"I would advise you to visit GCSE.com," said the English teacher. "It offers some great advice."

That is all, thanks, please continue...

[Bertt 0]

I see what you are trying to convey in your example sentence. That is all, carry on.
By the way guys, I agree with Pete. I would be extremely embarrassed if he were my instructor......

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[d100965 0]

Every day's a learning day! Thanks.

For the record though, I don't agree with Pete. He's just being pedantic, IMO. He should listen more and approach this discussion as Andy9o8 recommends.
Someone asked for a picture and when it was posted Pete jumped straight in with a stupid comment and is now trying to backpeddle from it by trying to show others far more experienced than him, how clever he thinks he is.
Again, there is no hard evidence of that, only simply how his postings come across in the e-world. (As do mine, probably).

[airtwardo 7]

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I see what you are trying to convey in your example sentence. That is all, carry on.
By the way guys, I agree with Pete. I would be extremely embarrassed if he were my instructor......

That's rather presumptive and sexist...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Bertt 0]

See, it's that kind of criticism that's driven me to drink. Thanks, 'Twardo.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[councilman24 37]

You can also build one like ParaGear sells.
http://www.paragear.com/templates/base_template.asp?group=206#TD175

For about $50 in parts and a little sewing. I don't know who makes these but I made one from the photos about 20 years ago. You use your own harness with out disconneting the main. It uses paragear part H445 for the release. Use your imagination from there. A steel tube, some ring bolts and a couple of snap hooks all from the hardware store.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mjosparky 4]

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you being condescending to me is going to do nothing but put a red flag to anyone reading this form

You are the type of person that condescending was invented for.

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you are true but hypothetically if a person with under a hundred jumps has two cutaways and a person with a thousand only has 1 or less, wouldn't the more exeperienced person have a better input with dealing with mals

The person with 2 cutaways in under a 100 jumps needs to practice packing more and learn how to prevent malfunctions.

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if you were to read my post rather than the first sentence you would see what i was trying to convey

People have read your post and told you what they think. It comes down to the fact you are in over your head and won’t admit it. At your experience level you should asking questions instead of giving advice. You have gotten responses from people with thousands of jumps and decades in the sport but you insist on arguing. As Will Rogers said, “you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.”

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[firemedic 7]

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Just a quickie, but before we continue this topic can we just read the following sentence....

"I would advise you to visit GCSE.com," said the English teacher. "It offers some great advice."

That is all, thanks, please continue...

Thanks for the advice. Or is it advise.

[mjosparky 4]

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Just a quickie, but before we continue this topic can we just read the following sentence....

"I would advise you to visit GCSE.com," said the English teacher. "It offers some great advice."

That is all, thanks, please continue...

Thanks for the advice. Or is it advise.

Take your pick.

Sparky

---

advice
1
: recommendation regarding a decision or course of conduct : COUNSEL

Advise

1
a : to give (someone) a recommendation about what should be done : to give advice to

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[firemedic 7]

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Quote

Quote

Just a quickie, but before we continue this topic can we just read the following sentence....

"I would advise you to visit GCSE.com," said the English teacher. "It offers some great advice."

That is all, thanks, please continue...

Thanks for the advice. Or is it advise.

Take your pick.

Sparky

---

advice
1
: recommendation regarding a decision or course of conduct : COUNSEL

Advise

1
a : to give (someone) a recommendation about what should be done : to give advice to

Right on brother.

[petejones45 0]

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THAT'S really BAD advise.

No offence intended, but until YOU are a well qualified and current INSTRUCTOR, please do yourself and the sport a favor and refrain from giving instructional advise.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Right On Brother

ok so what would YOU do?

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[petejones45 0]

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Every day's a learning day! Thanks.

For the record though, I don't agree with Pete. He's just being pedantic, IMO. He should listen more and approach this discussion as Andy9o8 recommends.
Someone asked for a picture and when it was posted Pete jumped straight in with a stupid comment and is now trying to backpeddle from it by trying to show others far more experienced than him, how clever he thinks he is.
Again, there is no hard evidence of that, only simply how his postings come across in the e-world. (As do mine, probably).

i'm not back peddling... i asked a hypothetical question that turned into a flame fest i stand by what i have said!

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[mjosparky 4]

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Every day's a learning day! Thanks.

For the record though, I don't agree with Pete. He's just being pedantic, IMO. He should listen more and approach this discussion as Andy9o8 recommends.
Someone asked for a picture and when it was posted Pete jumped straight in with a stupid comment and is now trying to backpeddle from it by trying to show others far more experienced than him, how clever he thinks he is.
Again, there is no hard evidence of that, only simply how his postings come across in the e-world. (As do mine, probably).

i'm not back peddling... i asked a hypothetical question that turned into a flame fest i stand by what i have said!

You did more than ask a hypothetical question. You made several statements that were just wrong. And you should be embarrassed to stand by some of the things you posted.

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id be embarrassed if i was her instructor and let this picture out while she is messing up eps

You don’t know what she is doing so how can you know she is messing it up.

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that seems like it would be alot of wasted time, i beleive you should keep one hand on the chop pilliow and one on the reserve handle.

What you believe is not the gold standard for EPS.

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in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)

As was mentioned before….this is really bad advice. You should not be giving advice you should be asking for it.

Sparky

You might what to spend some time improving your spelling and grammar.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pilotdave 0]

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that seems like it would be alot of wasted time, i beleive you should keep one hand on the chop pilliow and one on the reserve handle.

What you believe is not the gold standard for EPS..

Emergency procedures have been discussed so many times, we might forget that new jumpers haven't necessarily been exposed to anything outside of their first jump course. I don't want to repeat 100 other threads, but here's a quick summary for Pete's sake (ha!)...

Emergency procedures are taught in two basic methods... one hand per handle or two hands per handle. Each method has advantages and disadvantages. Obviously Pete learned one hand per handle, which is probably a bit less common for students to learn (in my experience, although that's the method I was taught at my FJC). The main advantage is that the jumper is holding both handles before there's a sudden shift (after cutting away), so the jumper is less likely to have problems finding the reserve handle. The primary disadvantage (in my opinion) is that the jumper is less prepared to deal with a hard cutaway, and is possibly more likely to prematurely pull the reserve handle (before ensuring that the cutaway is complete).

The advantage of the two hands per handle method is that the jumper has the strength and "focus" of both hands to perform each handle pull. The disadvantage is that the jumper has to move both hands to the reserve handle as everything shifts around during the cutaway, making it critical to watch the reserve handle throughout the cutaway. RSLs and AADs are also great backups.

I learned one method before my first jump and the other method before my second jump. I much prefer two hands per handle, especially for students. That's the method my DZ teaches, and the method the woman in the pic is using... though probably not perfectly. But I'm still not sure why her instructor should be embarrased.

And I'm assuming that when Pete talked about a partial cutaway being better than nothing, he meant down LOW. I'd agree that if a jumper has a partial cutaway and has no time to complete it (floating handle or something), pulling the reserve is the best bet. But, a partial cutaway is a NASTY NASTY malfunction, very likely to be much worse than whatever mal was being cut away. In most cases, a jumper would probably be much better off dumping the reserve into the original mal than dumping the reserve into a main hanging on by one riser. So the lesson is that completing a cutaway and making sure the cables are completely clear of the 3-rings is absolutely critical. I'm not sure Pete understood that point.

Dave

[petejones45 0]

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What you believe is not the gold standard for EPS.

ok skygod what is the gold standard then?

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[Beatnik 2]

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ok skygod what is the gold standard then?

Again you missed the whole point. All that was being stated was that the single method that you seem to believe is not the only way to do your emergency procedures. It was not indicating that there was a single standard.

I am not sure what you get out of deliberately misdirecting and pissing people off. The more you post the more you sound like a troll. Not sure if that is what you are trying to accomplish but if the time ever comes that you actually do ask a serious question, I doubt that you will get a real answer. Lose the chip, it looks like everyone is getting tired of it.

[mjosparky 4]

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Again you missed the whole point.

He hasn't seen the ball since kick off.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[petejones45 0]

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Again you missed the whole point. All that was being stated was that the single method that you seem to believe is not the only way to do your emergency procedures. It was not indicating that there was a single standard.

I am not sure what you get out of deliberately misdirecting and pissing people off. The more you post the more you sound like a troll. Not sure if that is what you are trying to accomplish but if the time ever comes that you actually do ask a serious question, I doubt that you will get a real answer. Lose the chip, it looks like everyone is getting tired of

you are certainly right to express your opinion. my beef is that mrsparky was quick to jump on my post and when i asked him what was the gold standard he failed to give me an answer....

i think its unfair for me to give a possible solution to a problem then be shot down by someone an be told my advice is shit and then they don't have a different outcome for a solution

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[riggerpaul 1]

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you are certainly right to express your opinion. my beef is that mrsparky was quick to jump on my post and when i asked him what was the gold standard he failed to give me an answer....

i think its unfair for me to give a possible solution to a problem then be shot down by someone an be told my advice is shit and then they don't have a different outcome for a solution

Right there we see the problem - that you would even ask "what is the gold standard"?

There is no gold standard for anything in skydiving.

Sparky didn't say there was. He only said that the techniques you support are not the gold standard. And they are not. His statement does not imply that he knows any gold standard.

For every thing that is possibly close to a "gold standard" in this sport, it is simple to find counter examples where following that standard might have killed you, while doing something else saved you.

Nothing in the sport is perfect.

Maybe some people are telling you that what they teach or make or sell is the gold standard, but it is not true.

This sport, and all things associated with it, are still way more "art" than "science".

So saying that you would be embarrassed to be the instructor that taught that person her EPs just shows us all that you don't have the depth of experience to understand that there is no gold standard, that different people teach different things, and that each has its good and bad points.

[mjosparky 4]

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Again you missed the whole point. All that was being stated was that the single method that you seem to believe is not the only way to do your emergency procedures. It was not indicating that there was a single standard.

I am not sure what you get out of deliberately misdirecting and pissing people off. The more you post the more you sound like a troll. Not sure if that is what you are trying to accomplish but if the time ever comes that you actually do ask a serious question, I doubt that you will get a real answer. Lose the chip, it looks like everyone is getting tired of

you are certainly right to express your opinion. my beef is that mrsparky was quick to jump on my post and when i asked him what was the gold standard he failed to give me an answer....

i think its unfair for me to give a possible solution to a problem then be shot down by someone an be told my advice is shit and then they don't have a different outcome for a solution

Yes I was quick to jump on your post because you have a habit of handing out bad advice. And sorry as hell if you think I was not fair to you. Ain’t life a bitch?
Now I don’t know if you miss spelling of my username was intentional or the results of poor reading skills but I do know that trying to get through to you is a waste of time.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[petejones45 0]

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Yes I was quick to jump on your post because you have a habit of handing out bad advice. And sorry as hell if you think I was not fair to you. Ain’t life a bitch?
Now I don’t know if you miss spelling of my username was intentional or the results of poor reading skills but I do know that trying to get through to you is a waste of time.

Sparky

Way to stroke your ego by picking apart my spelling it takes a big man to do that

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!