VanillaSkyGirl 6 #51 February 4, 2004 Btw... "Never try to teach a pig to sing." goes with... "It only frustrates you and really annoys the pig." Oink. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #52 February 4, 2004 QuoteI did not say it was a military thing young lady. Well, you said it was from your military experience. You can't apply all of your experiences from there here. QuoteIn order to be a good one you need to be able to segregate your feelings about people you do not like and do what is proper. Do the moderators consider themselves leaders of dropzone.com? Sure, they are all leaders in certain aspects, but not of dz.com. They do not lead it. They moderate it. Quote I only say this because you have said that you do not feel well and admitted yourself that you cannot concentrate on work. Work takes brainpower. Dropzone.com does not. These arguments are fairly simple. This site is not always "fair." Life is not always "fair." Sangiro always looks to improve his site. I'm sure he'll take your suggestion into consideration even though he's heard it before. Seriously, the bantering that goes on in the forums is what makes it so funny. If you delete anything that can possibly be taken as a personal attack, you'll have an overly censored site.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #53 February 4, 2004 QuoteDo the moderators consider themselves leaders of dropzone.com? Sure, they are all leaders in certain aspects, but not of dz.com. They do not lead it. They moderate it. They're managers. There is a HUGE difference between leadership and managering. Someone in the military should be able to tag that one right out the door, since they see (or should see) true leadership on a daily basis, as well as seeing managers mangering (the bean counters, etc).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpnkramer 0 #54 February 4, 2004 QuoteFurthermore, they're doing it for free. YAWN!!!!! Don't compalin for them. They chose to be a Moderator. I do many things for people to help them out. Do I ask for payment? NO! I have done many things and all I ask is that they are greatful some are and some aren't. The one's that aren't don't get help anymore. You are off the main point as most of the threads on here do. The point being that there cannot be double standards no matter what. Laters, .The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER! "HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!" "Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #55 February 4, 2004 QuoteThe point being that there cannot be double standards no matter what. Did you skip the rest of my post? Notice I said that I'm getting stuff deleted and getting PMs from the Mods telling me to back off? I'm one of the highest posters, a lot of folks know me, a lot of them know me personally, if anyone would be able to get away with something, it would be me. I'm not saying they're perfect, I'm saying that they're doing a pretty good job.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #56 February 4, 2004 QuoteThey're managers. There is a HUGE difference between leadership and managering. Someone in the military should be able to tag that one right out the door, since they see (or should see) true leadership on a daily basis, as well as seeing managers mangering (the bean counters, etc). Managing and leadership are the same thing. Someone put in a leadership position is required to manage their position. Someone put in a managing position is required to be a leader.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #57 February 4, 2004 QuoteThey chose to be a Moderator. I'm not trying to be rude, but I think that HH asks them to be moderators, and they accept or not. It is a very difficult job, and I really respect the fact that they take the time out to do that for us. I think that the moderators really do care about everyone's feelings to a certain degree, but they try to be as fair as they humanly can with what they moderate. Anyway, I doubt that anyone could be totally unbiased about almost anything in life. For example, everyone is partial to his/her home DZ? Why? Good emotions/feelings/memories are involved. The moderators are not robots. They do their best...in my eyes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #58 February 4, 2004 Obviously we need an ISO-compliant moderating process. Then, to make sure that the inputs to the moderating process are consistent, we'll need an ISO-compliant posting process. Anybody wanna form a committee and work on this? In my home, smokers are asked not to smoke. I've made exceptions. It's my home. If it were to get to be a hassle with people saying "why can they smoke and I can't" well, I'll just quit inviting people over. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #59 February 4, 2004 QuoteManaging and leadership are the same thing. Nope. Sorry, but you are wrong. Leaders have to manage at times and managers will have to lead at times, but they are not esclusively the same thing. If I had the time I'd give you a list of sources to show you my point, but unfortunately I was just fix'n to go to work...since I was supposed to be there an hour ago...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #60 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuoteRich? Remember the part where I mentioned that I skydive? All my cash goes for Jet-A. When I grow up, I'm going to get a real job, then I'll be rich and we can get married. However, until then, could we just live in sin and you support me? I'm not any good in bed, but I make up for the lack of skill with enthusiasm It's my dream to work hard and support a man. You'll need a couple of brand new rigs and on the weekends i'll stay on the ground to pack for you. I'll meet you in the landing area of the sunset load with a nice cold beer and give you a blowjob while you drink it.... well other than the 'stay on the ground' part... gotta sister?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #61 February 4, 2004 QuoteIt's my dream to work hard and support a man. You'll need a couple of brand new rigs and on the weekends i'll stay on the ground to pack for you. I'll meet you in the landing area of the sunset load with a nice cold beer and give you a blowjob while you drink it.. Now...if I can just convince a CERTAIN person to do all that for me things will be PERFECT. Well...except the "stay on the ground." She HAS to jump with me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #62 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuoteDo the moderators consider themselves leaders of dropzone.com? Sure, they are all leaders in certain aspects, but not of dz.com. They do not lead it. They moderate it. They're managers. There is a HUGE difference between leadership and managering. Someone in the military should be able to tag that one right out the door, since they see (or should see) true leadership on a daily basis, as well as seeing managers mangering (the bean counters, etc). try telling that to any number of x06's i work with...of course most of them never learned and still fail to understand that leadership is far more than giving an order and expecting your troops to follow too...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpnkramer 0 #63 February 4, 2004 QuoteHH asks them to be moderators, and they accept or not. That is the same thing as choosing. If they say no then they chose not to. If they say yes than they chose to be a moderator. QuoteAnyway, I doubt that anyone could be totally unbiased about almost anything in life. Yes there are people out there. Once again though the point is if you are in a leadership position you have to be this way. If not than you are not a TRUE LEADER! QuoteFor example, everyone is partial to his/her home DZ? Why? Good emotions/feelings/memories are involved. I have had the fortunate opportunity to travel with the military and see many dofferent operations. I can be unbiased and tell you the good and bad about many different DZ's. I usually try to focus on the good though. I know from the statements I have seen on this site that there are many people who are naive about their surroundings and therefore cannot make clear and sound decisions. I know it is a hard job. I am just saying an individual needs to be nuetral. Laters, .The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER! "HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!" "Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #64 February 4, 2004 QuoteLeaders have to manage at times and managers will have to lead at times, but they are not esclusively the same thing. If I had the time I'd give you a list of sources to show you my point, but unfortunately I was just fix'n to go to work...since I was supposed to be there an hour ago... A source? As in a book? Newspaper article? Internet source? Come on, Dave! Real life, work experience in a corporate environment is totally different than what you'd read in a book/newspaper article/internet article, etc.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #65 February 4, 2004 QuoteA source? As in a book? Newspaper article? Internet source? Come on, Dave! Real life, work experience in a corporate environment is totally different than what you'd read in a book/newspaper article/internet article, etc. Sorry, I've got to agree with Cora on this one, Dave. Even past a corporate environment the mark of a good manager is one who can lead and a leader has to be able to manage. Whether it be time, physical resources, or people. They are not separable.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #66 February 4, 2004 QuoteIt costs HH on the upwards of $15k a year to run [this site]. WOW! I bought him a jump ticket one time. I thought that'd about knock out a month's worth of bandwidth bill. Shows what I know about running a website. -Kramer The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #67 February 4, 2004 not entirely true.. lots of managers, particularly those at mid levels, have NO leadership responsibilities, they simply act on the guidance from above and make sure that all those doing the actual work file and follow all the proper paperwork and procedures.. That is not leadership, it provides no guidance, inspiration or direction. Those whose jobs it is to provide guidance, inspiration and direction do not always (or even often in my world) involve themselves in the day to day operations. They dont push paper or track employee activities, they know the capabilities of each business unit and direct the goals for each to accomplish, but do not have oversight once those goals have been determined and assigned and so their 'management' duties are rather limited. Despite the pay grade differences, managers actually work for the engineers to ensure we have the time, means and materials to complete the projects they manage, but they provide little to no actual leadership. Most wouldn’t have any idea how to direct our daily activities in the first place, but they know what paperwork needs to be filled and filed every cycle to comply with corporate and government policies, and they follow up to ensure its done to standard. Leadership and management can be related and encompassed by the same position, but in no way are they the same function.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #68 February 4, 2004 Quote Nope. Sorry, but you are wrong. Leaders have to manage at times and managers will have to lead at times, but they are not esclusively the same thing. If I had the time I'd give you a list of sources to show you my point, but unfortunately I was just fix'n to go to work...since I was supposed to be there an hour ago... I work in a corporate environment and I see no difference between the two. My boss (manager) is my leader. What the hell would he do if he didn't lead? Where would I get my direction from? Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #69 February 4, 2004 Quote Btw... "Never try to teach a pig to sing." goes with... "It only frustrates you and really annoys the pig." Look at the big brain on Rosa..........I still think you fail to see the analogy. Which doesn't suprise me.The stranger thing is that you still seem to want to discuss things....while hiding behind moderators I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #70 February 4, 2004 QuoteLook at the big brain on Rosa.... PULP FICTION!!! (Sorry, there's one in every thread... ) -Kramer The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #71 February 4, 2004 QuoteReal life, work experience in a corporate environment is totally different than what you'd read in a book/newspaper article/internet article, etc. Yes and no. A little about my experience, I'll give you one example. When I was 20, I had 281 people in my command and nearly a $30k budget for some projects I was in charge of. Strangely enough, I've got experience in both relms, as someone in a leadership role and someone in a managerial role. There is no magic formula for being a leader or a manager, but there is a lot of information out there to give you a heads up. That is the information I'm talking about. These are books written by very successful managers (CEOs, etc) and very successful leaders (military commanders). Since they've been there and done that more so then anyone else here on this site, I tend to believe them. Unless, of course, someone here has created and managed a multi-million dollar business or lead men into battle (on a minor scale and a large scale, yes I know that there are a lot of former military guys and gals here that have lead people, I'm not trying to single you out, I was refering to mostly flag rank and above commanders with thousands of people in their command).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #72 February 4, 2004 QuoteMy boss (manager) is my leader. What the hell would he do if he didn't lead? Where would I get my direction from? He isn't leading you, he's managing his assets.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #73 February 4, 2004 I see this Forum just like a real Dropzone. Lost of people hanging out and BullSh*ting about whatever comes up. People who know each other and are comfortable around each other are entitled to give each other sh*t. People who do not know each other do NOT have the same right to rag on each other. Yes, this site is VERY cliquish, just like real Dropzones. If you are"IN" then you have more leeway than others (Welcome to LIFE!!). If you are brand new and/or don’t know all that many people and you start Insulting or Harassing others then you will probably not be welcome for long. If on the other hand, you are well known, Insulting and hassling your friends is no big deal (Actually almost expected at my DZ) as long as everyone can see that it all in Jest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #74 February 4, 2004 Here's a basic way to look at it, the definitions: Quoteman·ag·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-jr) n. One who handles, controls, or directs, especially: One who directs a business or other enterprise. One who controls resources and expenditures, as of a household Quotelead·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ldr) n. One that leads or guides. One who is in charge or in command of others. On the basic fundemental level, there is a difference. If you really want, I'll go into greater detail. In my experience, people who consider managers to actually be leaders, have never been in an invironment where there truely was a leader. Thus they confuse the two. For instance, the person that is agreeing with me is the only one out of the various responses I've had to my post, that has actually done any sort of military service. In that relm, there are managers and there ARE leaders. Everyone else that has been disagreeing have only worked in the corporate world, with managers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #75 February 4, 2004 QuoteIt's my dream to work hard and support a man. You'll need a couple of brand new rigs and on the weekends i'll stay on the ground to pack for you. I'll meet you in the landing area of the sunset load with a nice cold beer and give you a blowjob while you drink it.... Romance is not dead. It is no coincidence that you are worshiped by men everywhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
