kallend 2,027
QuoteQuotedefend the indefensible
And that would be?
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1. Selling WMD to Iraq in the first place. I forget which administration did that.
2. Lying to Congress and the American people in the 2003 State of the Union address, and numerous other occasions.
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons. George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly"
9/12/2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have" George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas." George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons." George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003
"The biological weapons labs that we believe strongly are biological weapons labs, we didn't find any biological weapons with those labs. But should that give us any comfort? Not at all. Those were labs that could produce biological weapons whenever Saddam Hussein might have wanted to have a biological weapons inventory." Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Associated Press Interview
6/12/2003
"A British scientist and biological weapons expert, who has examined the trailers in Iraq, told The Observer last week: "They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories. You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what the Iraqis said they were -- facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons." Unnamed British Weapons Inspector
The Observer
6/15/2003
"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more." Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Remarks to UN Security Council
2/5/2003
"There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more. And he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. If biological weapons seem too terrible to contemplate, chemical weapons are equally chilling" Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Addresses the U.N. Security Council
2/5/2003
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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The point concerning the "bluff" is that the Iraqi regime chose to play a game. The unwillingness to allow unrestricted access to the UN inspectors throughout the 90's left most everyone with the opinion that the Iraqi regime had either retained WMD's or was working to acquire them again. So it may in fact be the case that Iraq is completely free of WMD's, but if this is the case the Iraqi regime had many opportunities to demonstrate it. They did not. They bluffed, they lost. (It should be noted that after the Gulf War, Iraq completely denied the existence of a nuclear weapons program. It took one year of UN investigation to determine that Iraq did in fact have an active program in place. Investigation takes time. Conclusions at this point might be premature.)
Defensible? Yes.
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Gawain 0
![:S :S](/uploads/emoticons/wacko.png)
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
sundevil777 102
QuoteThe unwillingness to allow unrestricted access to the UN inspectors throughout the 90's left most everyone with the opinion that the Iraqi regime had either retained WMD's or was working to reaquire them.
Quite right!
He did not comply with the agreement that ended the war in '91.
For many, including certain professors with disturbing green alien creature avatars, this is not a problem. He was "contained". No more concern needed than was shown for the little Austrian corporal when he defied the limitations of the Treaty of Versailles. Fortunately for the world, GWB was a lot more like Churchill than Chamberlain.
Jimbo 0
QuoteYour ability to be selective is surpassed only by your persistence... Geez dude. The same thing was touted by Clinton more than once. It was also talked about heavily in the UN back when it still had a sliver of credibility.
It wasn't just Clinton...
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Jim
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
benny 0
QuoteQuoteThe unwillingness to allow unrestricted access to the UN inspectors throughout the 90's left most everyone with the opinion that the Iraqi regime had either retained WMD's or was working to reaquire them.
Quite right!
He did not comply with the agreement that ended the war in '91.
For many, including certain professors with disturbing green alien creature avatars, this is not a problem. He was "contained". No more concern needed than was shown for the little Austrian corporal when he defied the limitations of the Treaty of Versailles. Fortunately for the world, GWB was a lot more like Churchill than Chamberlain.
The ability of Republicans to be selective simply amazes me. Kallend points out what we now know to be lies that were spoken by our President, and you guys try to gloss it over with "Clinton said it too"?? Then you say that violations of UN Resolutions gave us the right to use force. Ha, how many other countries regularly ignore the UN. I can guarantee you there are a few, we're one of them. But you select Iraq. Get over it, no weapons, they bluffed, they thought we were bluffing, they lost? 500+ American troops killed, was that worth it if there were no weapons? What did you guys think of Kosovo where no Americans died and we stopped ongoing genocide?
Never go to a DZ strip show.
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuite a list. Strangely, not one quote from any Democrat who stated the exact same things. Clinton, Lieberman and Clark come to mind. (To Lieberman's credit, he hasn't backed away from his position that this was a just war.)
I don't doubt it was "just", but lies are lies. I produced my list, you produce yours. Saying some other guys lied too is not an excuse.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,027
QuoteYour ability to be selective is surpassed only by your persistence...
Geez dude. The same thing was touted by Clinton more than once. It was also talked about heavily in the UN back when it still had a sliver of credibility.
Clinton is a proven liar. Why would you use him as a yardstick of truthfulness?
Saying "He did it too" never got me out of trouble when I was a kid. I guess it worked in your family.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Its like Bush's claim that Saddam was buying material for a bomb from Africa...a story made up to convince the public he was doing the right thing by making war on Iraq.
The original attack on the World TradeCenter, followed by the attacks of 9/11, are only the beginning of an all out war against America by the followers of Islam. They will take the technology that the Americans discovered and will use it against America...no matter how long it takes ( and it wont take long at all)...and their goal is to destroy America.
Cheney, Rumsfeld and FBI Director mueller have all stated that its just a matter of time, and these wacko Islamic extremists WILL strike again , and it will be with nuclear weaponry.That is the American government telling you it WILL happen.
Thy all agreed, there is NOTHING that America can do to stop it.
Homeland security make make it a bit harder for them to carry out a nuclear attack...but Homeland Security will never prevent it.
There has been two attacks on New York City...and there will be a third and final attack as well.
Bill Cole
kallend 2,027
Quote
QuoteYour ability to be selective is surpassed only by your persistence... Geez dude. The same thing was touted by Clinton more than once. It was also talked about heavily in the UN back when it still had a sliver of credibility.
It wasn't just Clinton...
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Jim
Mommy Mommy, nasty Feinstein did it too!
![:) :)](/uploads/emoticons/smile.png)
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Gawain 0
QuoteQuoteYour ability to be selective is surpassed only by your persistence...
Geez dude. The same thing was touted by Clinton more than once. It was also talked about heavily in the UN back when it still had a sliver of credibility.
Clinton is a proven liar. Why would you use him as a yardstick of truthfulness?
Saying "He did it too" never got me out of trouble when I was a kid. I guess it worked in your family.
Again, as I said, you have an amazing selective ability, citing the obvious (Clinton's lies for example) only when prodded for more clarification. But in this case, using the benchmarks we have available, then the UN as a body is a total lie also, as well as the UK, France, Germany, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia (more obvious-ness)...
![:P :P](/uploads/emoticons/tongue.png)
![:S :S](/uploads/emoticons/wacko.png)
I'm not using him as a yardstick of truthfulness, but using him as a measurement against the worldwide perception at the time. As I originally posted in this thread, 99% of the world was absolutely certain that Iraq has WMDs. Now, the faltering of opinion is a matter of convenience, nothing more.
If you sold me a gun, saw me use it, and continue to claim its power then put up a screen so you couldn't see me anymore, then you removed the curtain, you would have every reason to believe I was still armed.
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteQuoteYour ability to be selective is surpassed only by your persistence...
Geez dude. The same thing was touted by Clinton more than once. It was also talked about heavily in the UN back when it still had a sliver of credibility.
Clinton is a proven liar. Why would you use him as a yardstick of truthfulness?
Saying "He did it too" never got me out of trouble when I was a kid. I guess it worked in your family.
Again, as I said, you have an amazing selective ability, citing the obvious (Clinton's lies for example) only when prodded for more clarification. But in this case, using the benchmarks we have available, then the UN as a body is a total lie also, as well as the UK, France, Germany, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia (more obvious-ness)...![]()
I'm not using him as a yardstick of truthfulness, but using him as a measurement against the worldwide perception at the time. As I originally posted in this thread, 99% of the world was absolutely certain that Iraq has WMDs. Now, the faltering of opinion is a matter of convenience, nothing more.
If you sold me a gun, saw me use it, and continue to claim its power then put up a screen so you couldn't see me anymore, then you removed the curtain, you would have every reason to believe I was still armed.
Not if I'd sent inspectors in and they had reported finding nothing, which is the case in Iraq before the inspectors left prior to the invasion.
Lies are lies. Your defense of this lying administration is incomprehensible to me.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Jimbo 0
QuoteNot if I'd sent inspectors in and they had reported finding nothing, which is the case in Iraq before the inspectors left prior to the invasion.
Didn't the Iraqi government lead the inspectors around on a leash, only allowing access to select buildings at select times? That gave, in my opinion, the impression that Iraq was playing a shell game with something they didn't want the inspectors to find. What do you think they were hiding? Massive stockpiles of Cookie Crisp? Their new high-tech marshmallow manufacturing process?
Whether they exist[ed] or not, they Iraqi government created the illusion that they did. What else were we supposed to go on? How long were we to let the charade continue?
The Iraqi government played a dangerous game. They lost.
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Jim
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
kallend 2,027
Quote
QuoteNot if I'd sent inspectors in and they had reported finding nothing, which is the case in Iraq before the inspectors left prior to the invasion.
Didn't the Iraqi government lead the inspectors around on a leash, only allowing access to select buildings at select times? Jim
No.
Try this for another lie.
"[The federal budget deficit] will be small and short-term." GWBush, State of the Union Address, 2002.
"We are looking at (a deficit) for the foreseeable future," White House Budget Director Mitch Daniels, Jan 2003.
And now, the 2004 deficit is predicted to set an all time record, larger even than GWHB's $290B record.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Jimbo 0
Please spout the other lies in another thread.
Thank you. Come again.
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Jim
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
quade 4
Quote
Secretary of State Colin Powell held out the possibility Saturday that prewar Iraq may not have possessed weapons of mass destruction.
Full story here.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040124/D809G8B80.html
Ok, guys, you can discount Kay all you want, but if Powell is starting to say it, what then?
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
kallend 2,027
Quote
I thought we were talking about Iraq and WMD.
Please spout the other lies in another thread.
Thank you. Come again.
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Jim
Clear evidence of lying by the administration. It establishes the pattern of behavior. 100% admissible when establishing credibility. I've got lots more.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
FallRate 0
QuoteOk, guys, you can discount Kay all you want
Who here is arguing to discount Kay!?
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FallRate 0
QuoteTry this for another lie.
Translation: "Try this for an infantile attempt at complicating the issue to hide the fact that I'm talking out my ass."
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It's only confusing if you are trying to defend the indefensible. Otherwise it's quite clear.
Which is it Kallend? Did we sell them WMD's? If so where did they go?
Yes we did (to our shame), and not into hiding in Iraq according to all the evidence.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.