Army Personnel and the Black Berret

[freeflir29 0]

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.my hubby wears his reserve uniform bare...no combat scroll, no Ranger scroll, no wings..

We used to have our field uniforms stripped of all that stuff. One time a good friend had an Army Lt doing PLF's off a bench and telling him how tough and cool Airborne school was. How I kept a straight face.....I'll never know.

[dustin19d 0]

I fucking hate wearing the berret, Id love to back to the good ole PC, and give it back to the rangers.
Luckily I was in Germany durring the transiton and we didnt have to wear them unitl 6 months after the rest of the army, due to a supply shortage.
Yeah and %75 of the people wear it wrong and it pisses me off.

[crapflinger2000 1]

Don't have time to go through all the replies, but from an ex (reserve) Marine's perspective:

Why the hell do all the Army units have doo-dads, badges and other stuff?

In the Marines there was NOTHING to distinguish a high speed recon guy from an S1 type. This didn't seem to matter to anyone, and it was kind of a point of pride since we all took the "rifleman-first" concept to heart, something the Army seems to lack (witness the 507ths f'ed up performance in Iraq). I am more proud of making it through the School of Infantry short course that we had to go through than of getting through boot camp.

Yes, I know you can kind of point 'em out by looking for scuba bubbles and jump wings, but that is the extent of it. And since a lot of non-recon (and non ANGLCO) guys wrangled slots in airborne and scuba schools anyway, that wasn't even much of an indicator.... I knew a lot of arty, S1, and S2 types who had jump wings...

If you look at a Marine, all you see is rank insignia, an eagle globe and anchor emblem or two, and maybe some of the afore-mentioned bubbles and wings.

Don't get me started on how the Corps now has name tapes on their cammies. I think that is f'ed up.

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

[lawrocket 3]

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FNG Army guys impulse to salute enlisted guys with large shiny crests on their Beret. "At ease.....I'll be in the Air Force all day."

My favorite afternoons during AIT were spent in front of the PX at Ft. Gordon seeing how many FNG LT's we could get to salute with their left hands! You would be surprised.

And here I thought the enlisted worked for a living. As an FNG REMF LT, I always hated you FG's for the shit you'd pull.

I'd get into a new unit and state my rule, "Salute me once in the beginning of the day, and once at the end. Otherwise, go bother your squad leader, who should be keeping an eye on your sorry asses, anyways." You're the type of asshole who would arrange a line of E-1's and E-2's to stand a distance apart and individually salute me (only when I had my hands full). Guess who saluted back and held it, waiting for the first little twinkle-toed commie cocksucker to drop the salute before I did. Oh, the joy of seeing such a sight outside the Shoppette. Forgot your second standing order, Specialist? "Stand at attention!" Don't make me stop what I'm doing to salute me, you E-6 bastard. And also, the lack of proper protocol by calling them all to attention was pointed out to the senior guy around.

Keep the standards high, that's right! That's why I made my platoon motto (unofficial), "We've upped our standards, so up yours." "Up yours, sir" was the statement said during the salute. Yeah, the S-3 heard that once and was not amused. It was the middle of the day, too. Fucking Specialist made me look bad. Hadn't the platoon sergeant and squad leader made my rule known? Nope, too busy being REMFs, I guess.

Freaking enlisted. "Hey, LT, I need a box of grid squares." "Snuffy told me to watch out for T-R-double-E's and S-T-1's." I'm paid to think, remember? "You better take it up with Top." Clearly, his squad was bored, and there is ALWAYS a drain in the motor pool that needed degreasing. Take that, enlisted slime.

Nobody fucks with the LT, the LT does the fucking.

Of course, once an E-2 woke me up from my slumber behind my desk as I dealt with the drudgery of NCOER's and Quarterly reports with some bullshit request. His squad leader and platoon sergeant in for counseling on the chain of command and proper etiquette.

This NCO counseling typically went, "Hey, Bob. Let's get a beer tonight and go over this training for next month." "Sure, thing, LT. How's that waitress?"

You enlisted always thought you could get away with smuggling alcohol in the field, too. Typically generic vodka. Being a known seeker of alcohol, I'd catch your sorry asses and inform you that next time it better be something fit for troop consumption, whilst showing them my bottle of Chivas Regal (Rumpelminz is cold was expected). No, I won't trade a sip, you dumbass. (Of course, one of them later introduced me to Balvennie Double Wood - good stuff!)

It's amazing when the NCO's figure out that can't pull anything on you - when the hunter becomes the hunted. It allows the FNG REMF LT, with a history of evil jokes, to have some fun. And some unit cohesion.

And people wondered why my OER's made me look like I walk on water. My troops loved the field, and would look forward to those exercises while the other platoons were in bed.

I miss those enlisted...

edited to add: These stories are true. Heck, we sure raised hell. I was counseled several times about cavorting with the NCO's and enlisted (why didn't they have a problem with my partying with Chief?). But, screw it. That's how I learned my job - hearing them after several beers be honest about fuck-ups other lieutenants made.

THAT taught me how to be an Officer - not some school program.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[osuskydiver 0]

Great stories. I especially liked the one wher eyou held your salute waiting for someone to drop theres first. Thats quick thinking.

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[StevePhelps 0]

The black beret "was" a mark of distinction to be worn with pride, but no more. It ain't the beret (green, black, or maroon) that makes you elite! It simply was a symbol. Few SFers liked wearing the green beret as it is hot (wool) and stinks, but we wore them when we had to. However, I was ticked that they took it away from Rangers, just as I would be if they took it away from SF -- Never mind we didn't like wearing them much!

BTW-- 98% of SF and Rangers knew how to shape and wear them. 98% of the regular army look like cooks with chef hats!

My son who has finished SFAS and is in the middle of "Q" school" has NEVER worn the black beret, and swears he never will -- We will see!

I voted LOSE it!

[sdgregory 0]

Sounds like some Mustangs I knew. Not many Boot Lieuies I ever met could find their assholes with both hands and a search party. I met one ,however that had a wicked tongue and a biting sense of humour. We liked him.

But most Boot Zeroes are something less than zero.

Hey CrapFlinger! BTW From an ANGLICO Marine, that is ANGLICO.

Well said otherwise and too true. HOORAH!

[LouDiamond 1]

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My son who has finished SFAS and is in the middle of "Q" school"

No shit, which MOS is he learning? John Wayne U is right up the street from my team room.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[osuskydiver 0]

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Hey CrapFlinger! BTW From an ANGLICO Marine, that is ANGLICO.

Well said otherwise and too true. HOORAH!

ANGLICO?

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[lawrocket 3]

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Sounds like some Mustangs I knew. Not many Boot Lieuies I ever met could find their assholes with both hands and a search party. I met one ,however that had a wicked tongue and a biting sense of humour. We liked him.

But most Boot Zeroes are something less than zero.

Hey CrapFlinger! BTW From an ANGLICO Marine, that is ANGLICO.

Well said otherwise and too true. HOORAH!

I was the worst of the worst. Not only was I an eltee with a compass, I was also an eltee with a DA 5984-E. And there ain't nothing worse than a lieutenant with one of those.

Yes, for you civilians, it's the military driver's license.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[osuskydiver 0]

Ever get one of those nice little 1408...or maybe even an 1805. a.k.a. the speedign ticket adn the warning.

Actually....the 1805 coudl be misleading, it gives those crazy MP's some power. My instructor once told me there was one soldier driving but obeying all the rules but was still pissing him off. So he pulled him over and gace him an 1805 for improper wear of headgear. The 1805's are sent directly to your company commander, lets the company deal with whatever you recieved it for.

Personally I would never use an 1805 in this fashion. I would just tell the soldier to fix what is wrong and drive on. Speeding, now your getting the 1408

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[slayer21016 2]

Hey Adam

GO NUCLEAR NAVY just pure destructive power all of the way. and i still need the cameraman info that we talked about as soon as you can get it to me.

Thanks
Scott Snyder

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I'm not military, but my brother was Army (2Lt), airborne/air assault.

I'm a gun and knife enthusiast, and like military things very much. I think it was a disgusting thing when they took the distinctive black beret from the Rangers, essentially told them to go take a shit on themselves, and distributed them to every puke who could sign his life away, merit or not.

Rangers distinguish themselves by their effort and strength. The actions of the top command essentially said, "We don't look out for our own." How much more clear could the message have been, when it was SO ABUNDANTLY EVIDENT that 99% of the army personnel did not support this decision but the brass made it anyway?! What the fuck were they thinking?!

---Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[ScottishJohn 25]

3rd definition of the word MUG


Also to rob someone in a dark side street and demand their mobile phone and wallet with threats of physical violence

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers

[sdgregory 0]

I was at Benning for Airborne and got in a scuff with some Army MPs. My fellow Marines and I went to the "Hidden Door" (an E-club for those who do not know- not some weird sexual place). Anyway, I got royally drunk. I am a loud funny drunk and walking back to barracks I was being a little too loud. One of my buds says "Hey Gregory, chill, MPs are over there." At the top of my lungs I yelled "Fuck the MPs! You can't spell WIMP without MP." The rest as they say is history.

[DBCOOPER 5]

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let alone wearing a beret like a frenchman... pathetic.

The Monica hat.Nothing worse that somebody that doesn't know how to wear it.
Sort of look like Russian sailors.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Ron 10]

Rangers earned the black beret.
Airborne earned the marron ones.

But some POG REMF is now wearing the black beret just to make a bunch of kids feel good about themselves?

You should have to EARN things...Thats how the military buids charecter...By making you eran thingsm then letting you stand out above the crowd once you have don it...

It's not just in a cool uniform.

Im waiting for supply guys to get blue cords like the infantry gets. Just cause us infantry folks looked cool with them.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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I'm cocky, self-centered, overbearing

Well you got that part right

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[StevePhelps 0]

Lou, he is weapons and loving it. He went in under the 18X program

[LouDiamond 1]

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He went in under the 18X program

AHHH, he is one of the SF babies I see walking around. If I come accross the name I'll be sure and pull him aside and introduce myself.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[osuskydiver 0]

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At the top of my lungs I yelled "Fuck the MPs! You can't spell WIMP without MP." The rest as they say is history.

You can't pell Pimp with out MP either

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[nightjumps 1]

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MARINE BY GOD!!

Captain Underpants by choice?

[hooligan 0]

crapflinger:

i knew more than one recon marine who wore his ranger tab sewn on the inside flap of his bouse pocket...just because the corp doesnt issue or allow the same dress as the army doesnt mean that damn near every guy that has earned a ranger tab wouldnt be proud to wear it.


havin the whole of the army in a black berret is like seein your girl out with another guy..

[jumper03 0]

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ANGLICO?

Air-Naval Gunnery LIason COmpany.

They go in all sneaky sneaky and say shoot here- shoot there - don't drop a bomb here - drop a bomb there.

Were disbanded for awhile but I heard they had just reformed a company. Any truth to that guys?


Jump

Scars remind us that the past is real

[nightjumps 1]

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John Wayne U

The whole world has gone to shit since John Wayne died.

General Shinseki's Black Beret was/is a representation of a greater systemic problem of dumbing-down and smoothing out all awards and decorations in the name of morale and retention.

When I was at the SERE Instructor's course in 1985, we had a latino from East LA who was part of the 82nd. One day we were working on our homemade rucksack's when the SGM came up to our group. He hunkered down next to this 82nd guy and explained that it had been brought to his attention (meaning some officer told him) that this guy wasn't wearing all his patches.

We listened to the conversation... The latino said, "Sergeant Major, all I did was jump into Grenada and sit at the end of a runway for five days. I'm really uncomfortable with sewing those on." The SGM explained that he understood how he felt, but that he needed to sew them on.

The next day, he showed up with a CIB, Combat Patch and Combat star on his jump wings. Our class was comprised of SF, Rangers, Marine Force Recon, SEALs and a couple of PJs.

Putting those on his uniform didn't improve his morale. It demoralized him some and you could see it in his face. He was embarassed to wear those awards. As it turned out, he was even awarded a Bronze Star. He wouldn't wear it on his Class A's.

Not long after, SF went through a transition. Anyone who was assigned to an SF unit wore the Green Beret. As you know, at that time, while in training we wore the Green Beret with a candy bar and when you completed the "Q" Course, you were awarded the "Flash." When indoors, we rolled and stuffed our berets in our cargo pocket with the flash exposed to delineate those who were in training and those who were "Flash" qualified.

When the news came down that all in an SF unit were to wear the Green Beret, we put up a fuss and
the upper channels came down with a, "Well, what we're goining to do is award the SF Tab "like" the Ranger Tab to signify whose SF qualified as the award, rather than the Green Beret.

But, the beret was the award. An award granted by JFK. It wasn't headgear, it was an award. Just like the Rangers who made it to Battalion. Those who went to Ranger School wore the tab. Those who went to Ranger School AND were "awarded" a slot at Battalion received the Black Beret.

The majority of those in a "P" slot in an SF unit that put the Green Beret on their heads were embarrassed. Of course, there were those who walked around all pumped up proudly displaying their new pussy-getting headgear. Which in turn, only demoralized those who were SF qualified and were "awarded" the beret. More than one SF'er bit their lip in public.

Over time we have seen Bronze Stars awarded to those who never even left the country; awarded for planning a mission overseas, CIB's awarded for putting your foot in country, almost everyone being called, "Special Operations," etc. so they can "feel" better about themselves.

And in the end, that "feeling" is a mass exodus that requires a stop gap to prevent soldiers from leaving the military.