Experiences with Stowless Dbags?

[Badabing 0]

Hi,

I want to get a stowless bag. I found two on the market, and have heard from a third one from Belgium.
Do you guys have any experience with them?

This is one from UPT
http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22

This is one from Reinier in Empuriabrava which is absolutely stowless.
http://www.ramairsport.com/en/shop/details/43/13/skydiving%3Bspare%20parts/mpod%20bag%20w%2Fo%20bungees

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

Mike


Edit: I realized that I am not lazy - I just wanna be extremely efficient

[dragon2 2]

There have been a few threads about the various kinds of stowless dbags a few months ago if I remember correctly. I'm just too lazy (pun intended) to go find them

But there you should get all the info you need.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[kellja2001 0]

Quote

I'm quite lazy

Personally, I think this is a reason not to get one...

I've seen University Clubs own rigs with stowless D-Bags, and since its not necessarily themselves who will jump it next, they simply "shove" the lines into the bag - without a care in the world.

Just because its an easier method, doesn't mean you should spend any less time/effort ensuring you have nice, neatly folded lines.

$0.02

And yes, I do put my money where my mouth is. I've just specifically requested a bungee d-bag for my University club's new rig from a manufacturer who offers a magnetic d-bag as standard.

[Badabing 0]

@ dragon2

okayokay, I wasn't that lazy.. I searched but didn't find anything.. I'll try again..

@ kellja:

I'm really unmotivated when it comes to replacing torn bungees, I don't mind the packing..
Who is the manufacturer you wrote about?

[kellja2001 0]

Quote

@ kellja:

I'm really unmotivated when it comes to replacing torn bungees, I don't mind the packing..
Who is the manufacturer you wrote about?

http://www.basik.fr/en/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=189&category_id=6&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28

[LouDiamond 1]

I can recommend the UPT version, I use it in both of my rigs and have used it for wingsuiting and skydiving without issue. I will caveat this and say that you should do a search on this topic as there are other bags out there and they are not all created equal. I have seen and used several of them(not all)when this concept first came out 5-6 years back and I can tell you they are not all the same. There is one current one that uses magnets that I think is potentially dangerous as I've seen video of a deployment allowing the canopy to escape from the D bag before full line stretch was achieved. The UPT bag IMO is the better designed stowless bag out at the moment. The locking stows should be/use rubber bands to fully ensure you do not have canopy out before full line stretch.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[dragon2 2]

Quote

@ dragon2

okayokay, I wasn't that lazy.. I searched but didn't find anything.. I'll try again..

That was a ref to the lazy bag actually

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Butters 0]

Reinier Bos is a dealer for PGASUS which makes the mPOD.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Badabing 0]

ahh okay ;)

Thanks for the replies folks. I'll try the lazy bag.

[koppel 4]

www.downwardtrend.com.au

they make the Axe which is a nice combination of tucks and magnets. Freestow pocket is with two magnets and tucks on the side and the main stow is a tuck that holds the lines.

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[thrillstalker 0]

call chuting star and ask for warren. he makes a magnetic d bag with only the locking stows.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[DSE 5]

I'd recommend the UPT, that's what I bought.
I've jumped/demo'd three different brands/types. I preferred the UPT for a few reasons, but it's easy to demonstrate why the stowbands are preferable to magnets.

[matthewcline 0]

I did a currency jump with a kid who had a magnet closed main bag with a tuck tab set up for the line stows.

He had a new bigger bag and it dumped the main right out of the tray. I was sitting in slot, main side and saw the warning label of his canopy at eye level.

Apparently the mag flap would not stay closed on the bag "properly" sized for his main, so he bought a new bag a little bigger, it appeared the friction from the container being snug slid the flap open. This seemed to dumped the main and then the lines would pay out and then, wham! He had a canopy.

The main opened quickly and had one line twist but he said it didn't feel to hard and that he was used to those quick openings. From the pin being pulled to him under a 80/90% inflated canopy was less than a second, I didn't get the whole word "SHIT!" out and he was gone.

I think some sort of locking stow bag is still needed to have a properly staged opening. Tabs or magnets for the remaining stows are probably fine. But I am not a rigger or PRO level Swooper to have aneed for them in my opinion.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Rugby82 0]

I'd recommend the mPOD by Pgasus (Belgium). I just received mine yesterday and a lot of my friends have one (around 10 now). The mPOD really improves your openings, especially if you're jumping smaller elliptical canopies because of the reduction in bagtumbling.

Another great Belgian invention and I've got to say the building quality is very impressive.

Here's a video of packing with an mPOD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCCWe08slMg

Blue skies!

[mchamp 1]

I have the semi-stowless D-Bag from UPT and have jumped it for the past 220 jumps and have yet to have any hard openings due to the bag. Love the semi-stowless and highly recommend it!

2 stows, with a simple figure 8 for the lines, 4 tuck tabs and done.....faster and easier than a regular bag IMHO....also spending less time replacing broken rubber bands

I attended the stowless bag seminar over in DeLand during the Skydive Expo and recall hearing that it also has less potential for line twists.....and virtually eliminates the risk for bag locks? Correct me if I'm wrong

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[cpoxon 0]

There is an article about Stowless Bags in the latest BPA Skydive The Mag

pages 48+51

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

There is an article about Stowless Bags in the latest BPA Skydive The Mag

pages 48+51

Good article that addresses the issue I mentioned earlier about bags that use magnets as the locking stows.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[cpoxon 0]

Article text:

Quote

Recently, there have been a number of new deployment bags released onto the market, with magnets, tuck tabs, bungees and Velcro in almost every combination you can imagine. Many magazines and websites (including this magazine!) have published adverts and reviews, but there has been very serious discussion covering compatibility and the potential issues associated with them.

Changing the d-bag can be done quickly and easily by anyone who knows how, but it is imperative that the bag is compatible with the container to ensure proper functionality and reliable deployments. A new generation of stowless and semi-stowless d-bags has arrived, prompting this article. BPA Rigger Andy Hughes aims to provide the reader with knowledge that can be used to make an informed decision on whether or not to buy into these new products.

Since the very first parachutes became available, opening characteristics were one of the big selling points. The equipment we use today is generally more sensitive than the large docile canopies of the last decade, but this extra performance requires the deployment systems to consistently control the canopy and lines through the deployment sequence.

Through the history of sport parachuting, there have been many different approaches to deployment systems. However the industry almost universally adopted the deployment bag, or ‘d-bag’, as the preferred deployment device because it can sequence the deployment without putting too much wear on the canopy/lines, is reliable, has little bulk and can be packed quickly and easily.

In terms of safety, having a properly controlled opening sequence is key. One of the fundamental properties of a staged opening is that the lines must pay out gradually as the d-bag is extracted from the container, and must be fully extracted and tensioned BEFORE the canopy comes out of the d-bag. This criterion is far more important than avoiding bungee maintenance, because an uncontrolled opening may be hard enough to knock you out or cause internal damage to your body. Being forced to maintain bungees is a good thing because it forces us to keep our equipment properly functional as the components wear and the material’s properties change.

These new bags are sold on the premise that they are able to mitigate the risk of opening with twists. Although a canopy deployment with twists is not ideal, it can be kicked out or cut-away easily enough. As skydivers we accept that the occasional reserve ride is a part of our sport; however, trying to solve ‘the twist problem’ with a system that allows unsequenced deployment is absolutely the wrong approach.

If your canopy has a tendency to twist, there are several basic questions to think about before considering changing to a different design of d-bag:

· How old are the lines - are they in trim?
· How old is the canopy - has the fabric lost its zero-porosity?
· Is the d-bag the correct size for the container,and does the canopy fit the bag?
· Are you leaving enough slack between the risers and last line stow?
· Does the way you pack promote even canopy inflation?
· What kind of canopy do you have - is the funky opening one of the design’s characteristics?
· How does your body position change on opening (including the placement of hands on risers during the deployment sequence)?

Things to consider before buying a stowless bag

· If the bag relies on bag/canopy friction and canopy bulk to keep the lines stowed, be aware that pack volume decreases over the lifetime of a canopy and it has been shown that volume can vary as much as 20 per cent from canopy to canopy of the same make and model. Standard deployment bags are fairly tolerant of differing canopy size, whereas the fully stowless bags will not be secure if the canopy is mis-sized.
· What sort of lines do you have, and is the new bag tested with those type of lines? Large Dacron lines or stiff Vectran lines may not slide out of the pocket in the same way as HMA or Microlines. Also the extra abrasion/friction caused when the lines slide out of the pocket will wear the lines faster and may cause shrinkage on Spectra/Microline suspension lines
· Tests have shown that fully magnetic (e.g. mPod) bags can dump the canopy before the lines pay out due to the pilot chute’s snatch force. These out-of-sequence openings can cause extremely violent opening shocks and malfunctions, particularly with zero-stretch line such as HMA. The weight of the canopy and size of the bag’s mouth will greatly affect the tendency to release: lighter canopies (i.e. less than 100 sq ft) are less susceptible to premature canopy dump.
· Normal wear and tear can result in the bag’s security weakening over time, so regular maintenance by a rigger may be necessary. In the absence of the large manufacturers offering the style of d-bag you want, the question has to be asked: "why are these reputable manufacturers not offering this?" It may be the case that they simply haven't focused on developing a particular product or that there is such a small market that it is not worth pursuing; however it may be the case that this direction has not been taken for safety reasons or because there are better methods of achieving the end goal.

The moral of the story is simply this: before buying into ‘cutting edge’ gear, ensure that you fully understand the pros and cons of the design and be 100 per cent sure of its compatibility with your equipment. If you really want to jump novel, ‘next generation’ equipment from independent rigging lofts, the best approach is to have your container’s manufacturer or an experienced rigger sign-off the equipment as "compatible and fit for purpose".

Andy Hughes

This article was compiled following concerns raised at the Riggers’ and STC meetings held on 30 September 2010

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[maisin 0]

The only original patented Lazy Bag comes from www.compal.be
Packind demo here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igfpLjh8hvc&feature=share

[Designer 0]

Magnets,probably not a great idea for a bag.I like the idea in general.Only packed one type so don't give me crap about it,please?The secret is very neat reserve type stows and very neat coiling.

[Calvin19 0]

The links provided here to buy the mPod do not work, anyone know how I can order an mPod?

-SPACE-

[Rugby82 0]

Quote

The links provided here to buy the mPod do not work, anyone know how I can order an mPod?

Try this link: http://pgasus.be/start.php?lang=en . In the right section you can click to download the orderform and the dealerlist.

Blue skies!

[jurgencamps 0]

Quote

The links provided here to buy the mPod do not work, anyone know how I can order an mPod?

http://www.pgasus.be/start.php?pg=text&item=mPOD
or
www.pgasus.be

info@pgasus.be

[Calvin19 0]

I posted too soon... I got an email reply last night! I will hopefully have the JVX in a stowless bag before Xmas.

thanks for the help!

-SPACE-

[OG-Tahiti 0]

I'll post my experience as a newer jumper with the UPT stowless D-Bag. Have about 40 jumps on it and have nothing bad to say about it. For me it is easier/faster to pack, and makes for a much neater packjob.

I can't say it really improved my openings as there was nothing wrong with them in the first place. I do think it will make for cleaner openings. I filmed a few of them and the only time the bag starts to wiggle from side to side is when it gets to the two locking stows. On a regular dbag it would start wiggling at the first stow...

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9