quade 4 #126 January 12, 2004 Quote Could be based on a binary tree, a la Huffman. Some sort of variable bit rate compression. Yeah, it's not a bad idea, but mega tough to figure out.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #127 January 12, 2004 QuoteHow do you reconcile it with the beginning of the second sentence? A period generally has a space after it. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #128 January 12, 2004 Quote A period generally has a space after it. Here's the part that gives me heartburn "---ll---lll--l-----" If "---" = " " then how would you know?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #129 January 12, 2004 Maybe it has to come from the context. Clearly, we are having trouble with bits per character. Look at the last few bits of "vastness" and "ourselves". We have an "es" and and "ess" - we ought to be able to get "e" and "s" out of this. However, I can't decide how many bits long "s" is. edited to add: the only way it makes sense is for "s" to be ||| and for "e" to be one of the following: ----| ---| --| -| | depending on the assumptions we make about the number of binary characters it takes to describe a letter. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #130 January 12, 2004 QuoteIf "---" = " " then how would you know? Haven't figured that out yet, but I think in that case... some of those dashes belong to one character and some to the next. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #131 January 12, 2004 Quote --- = ll---lll--l- = IN --- = -llll-llll-- = OUR --- = -lll-lll-lllll-ll-ll-llll--ll---lll----l-ll-- = OBSCURITY If "-llll-llll-- = OUR " and "-lll-lll-lllll-ll-ll-llll--ll---lll----l-ll-- = OBSCURITY ", then doesn't "-lll" have to = "O" I think there's something fundamentally flawed with assuming "---" = " ".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #132 January 12, 2004 That's what I was thinking, or at least it equals an O at the beginning of a word. If "-llll-llll-- = OUR " and "-lll-lll-lllll-ll-ll-llll--ll---lll----l-ll-- = OBSCURITY ", then doesn't "-lll" have to = "O" This would also be consistent for the I that comes after the UR in obscurity... "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #133 January 12, 2004 Ok, so let's compress the first sentace of what we assume to be clue #2 using Huffman coding Original Text = Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. Transformed Text = OUR PLANET IS A LONELY SPECK IN THE GREAT ENVELOPING COSMIC DARK. Ignoring spaces and any other character different from the alphabet ... Frequency of A is 5 Frequency of B is 1 Frequency of C is 4 Frequency of D is 2 Frequency of E is 8 Frequency of F is 1 Frequency of G is 3 Frequency of H is 2 Frequency of I is 5 Frequency of J is 1 Frequency of K is 3 Frequency of L is 5 Frequency of M is 2 Frequency of N is 6 Frequency of O is 5 Frequency of P is 4 Frequency of Q is 1 Frequency of R is 4 Frequency of S is 4 Frequency of T is 4 Frequency of U is 2 Frequency of V is 2 Frequency of W is 1 Frequency of X is 1 Frequency of Y is 2 Frequency of Z is 1 Code Word for A is 1000 Code Word for B is 011010 Code Word for C is 0011 Code Word for D is 111010 Code Word for E is 000 Code Word for F is 1101010 Code Word for G is 11100 Code Word for H is 111011 Code Word for I is 1010 Code Word for J is 1111100 Code Word for K is 11011 Code Word for L is 1001 Code Word for M is 01111 Code Word for N is 1100 Code Word for O is 1011 Code Word for P is 0100 Code Word for Q is 011011 Code Word for R is 0101 Code Word for S is 11110 Code Word for T is 0010 Code Word for U is 01110 Code Word for V is 01100 Code Word for W is 1111101 Code Word for X is 1101011 Code Word for Y is 111111 Code Word for Z is 110100 The Transformed Text : OUR PLANET IS A LONELY SPECK IN THE GREAT ENVELOPING COSMIC DARK. has been coded to the following information : 1011011100101 This according to http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~sardinha/Huffman/Huffman.html I think we can almost safely say that Huffman coding isn't being used at it would present too many challenges to the decoders. It would also make for some damn long messages and I don't think we'd have any possibility of figuring out good candidate quotes for.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #134 January 12, 2004 QuoteI think there's something fundamentally flawed with assuming "---" = " ". I don't think you can say that every time you see "---" you can say it's a space. What I think is that everytime there should be a space in the message there will be a corresponding "---". "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #135 January 12, 2004 I think it is going to be a more simple substitution type code. Maybe 4 bits per letter and 3 per space. The problem with 3 bits per letter is the word "our" would = llll-llll The last 3 bits are the same as the first three. So it could be 4 bits per letter and 3 per space. EDIT: Scratch that - if it is 4 bits per letter then "ss" at the end of "vastness" does not work. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #136 January 12, 2004 Maybe Martians read from right to left.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #137 January 12, 2004 I think you have to eliminate spaces yourself. ==================> Starting new Compression Don't put in spaces or characters different from the alphabet ... Original Text = OURPLANETISALONELYSPECKINTHEGREATENVELOPINGCOSMICDARK Transformed Text = OURPLANETISALONELYSPECKINTHEGREATENVELOPINGCOSMICDARK Ignoring spaces and any other character different from the alphabet ... Frequency of A is 5 Frequency of B is 1 Frequency of C is 4 Frequency of D is 2 Frequency of E is 8 Frequency of F is 1 Frequency of G is 3 Frequency of H is 2 Frequency of I is 5 Frequency of J is 1 Frequency of K is 3 Frequency of L is 5 Frequency of M is 2 Frequency of N is 6 Frequency of O is 5 Frequency of P is 4 Frequency of Q is 1 Frequency of R is 4 Frequency of S is 4 Frequency of T is 4 Frequency of U is 2 Frequency of V is 2 Frequency of W is 1 Frequency of X is 1 Frequency of Y is 2 Frequency of Z is 1 Code Word for A is 1000 Code Word for B is 011010 Code Word for C is 0011 Code Word for D is 111010 Code Word for E is 000 Code Word for F is 1101010 Code Word for G is 11100 Code Word for H is 111011 Code Word for I is 1010 Code Word for J is 1111100 Code Word for K is 11011 Code Word for L is 1001 Code Word for M is 01111 Code Word for N is 1100 Code Word for O is 1011 Code Word for P is 0100 Code Word for Q is 011011 Code Word for R is 0101 Code Word for S is 11110 Code Word for T is 0010 Code Word for U is 01110 Code Word for V is 01100 Code Word for W is 1111101 Code Word for X is 1101011 Code Word for Y is 111111 Code Word for Z is 110100 The Transformed Text : OURPLANETISALONELYSPECKINTHEGREATENVELOPINGCOSMICDARK has been coded to the following information : 10110111001010100100110001100000001010101111010001001101111000001001111111111100100000001111011101011000010111011000111000101000100000100001100011000001001101101001010110011100001110111111001111101000111110101000010111011 ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #138 January 12, 2004 Doh! My bad. So, how many bits did we end up with? 221 . . . hmmm. Pretty close.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #139 January 12, 2004 Still, if it is both encoded and compressed, that is f*&^ed up sh!t for a bunch of school kids to decipher. But I guess if skydivers can do it... ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyne 0 #140 January 12, 2004 I guess its true what they say .. if ya have problems programing the VCR, hand your 3 year old the remote ... I'm going to feel pretty stupid if some snot nosed 12 year old solves this before I do ... LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #141 January 12, 2004 Well, it would be different if it were part of a longer message. I am going to Huffman the whole clue and see what happens. OK here is the whole thing: ==================> Starting new Compression Don't put in spaces or characters different from the alphabet ... Original Text = OurplanetisalonelyspeckinthegreatenvelopingcosmicdarkInourobscurityinallthisvastnessthereisnohintthathelpwillcomefromelsewheretosaveusfromourselves Transformed Text = OURPLANETISALONELYSPECKINTHEGREATENVELOPINGCOSMICDARKINOUROBSCURITYINALLTHISVASTNESSTHEREISNOHINTTHATHELPWILLCOMEFROMELSEWHERETOSAVEUSFROMOURSELVES Ignoring spaces and any other character different from the alphabet ... Frequency of A is 9 Frequency of B is 2 Frequency of C is 6 Frequency of D is 2 Frequency of E is 20 Frequency of F is 3 Frequency of G is 3 Frequency of H is 8 Frequency of I is 12 Frequency of J is 1 Frequency of K is 3 Frequency of L is 12 Frequency of M is 5 Frequency of N is 11 Frequency of O is 13 Frequency of P is 5 Frequency of Q is 1 Frequency of R is 11 Frequency of S is 15 Frequency of T is 12 Frequency of U is 6 Frequency of V is 5 Frequency of W is 3 Frequency of X is 1 Frequency of Y is 3 Frequency of Z is 1 Code Word for A is 0010 Code Word for B is 001100 Code Word for C is 10111 Code Word for D is 001101 Code Word for E is 010 Code Word for F is 101101 Code Word for G is 00000 Code Word for H is 0001 Code Word for I is 1100 Code Word for J is 0000101 Code Word for K is 101011 Code Word for L is 1001 Code Word for M is 01101 Code Word for N is 1000 Code Word for O is 1110 Code Word for P is 00111 Code Word for Q is 0000100 Code Word for R is 0111 Code Word for S is 1111 Code Word for T is 1101 Code Word for U is 10100 Code Word for V is 01100 Code Word for W is 101100 Code Word for X is 0000110 Code Word for Y is 101010 Code Word for Z is 0000111 The Transformed Text : OURPLANETISALONELYSPECKINTHEGREATENVELOPINGCOSMICDARKINOUROBSCURITYINALLTHISVASTNESSTHEREISNOHINTTHATHELPWILLCOMEFROMELSEWHERETOSAVEUSFROMOURSELVES has been coded to the following information : 1110101000111001111001001010000101101110011110010100111101000010100110101011110011101010111101011110010001101000101000000011101000101101010100001100010100111100011111001000000001011111101111011011100101110011010010011110101111001000111010100011111100011001111101111010001111100110110101011001000001010011001110100011100111101100001011111101100001011111111110100010100111010110011111000111000011100100011011101000100101101000101010010011110110011001001100110111111001101010101101011111100110101010011111010101100000101001110101101111011110010011000101010011111011010111111001101111010100011111110101001011000101111 ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #142 January 12, 2004 That is 613 bits vs. 810 bits for the clue. Anyone know of earlier compression algorithms that do not work quite as well as Huffman? ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #143 January 12, 2004 Don't you also need the frequency distribution to get back from the Huffman encoding? ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #144 January 12, 2004 Well, the clue page does say that you can decode the DVD message with the clue 1 message, so, I assume that if you had constructed a huffman like tree for the 1st clue out of the second clue, then you'd be able to use that tree key for decoding the actual Mars DVD. Damn f'in complicated and damn near impossible without the first two clues, but I suppose if it were easy, we'd have all done it by now.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #145 January 12, 2004 So, I -JUST- got an email back from the Planetary Society. I had asked them if -anyone- has yet solved the code. They sent me a one word reply, "Nope!" Whew! I don't feel too bad now . . .quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #146 January 12, 2004 QuoteSo, I -JUST- got an email back from the Planetary Society. I had asked them if -anyone- has yet solved the code. They sent me a one word reply, "Nope!" I've figured it out!! I'll have it decoded this evening. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #147 January 12, 2004 Here are my thoughts so far: I am convinced that space is "---" our = -llll-llll-- I = ll---l S = lll A = -l- N = ll--l- E = --l O = -lll L = ll-l-l this = ll----ll--llll---llll ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #148 January 12, 2004 Show your work. I'll be a little ticked if character replacement from the decoded passage allows direct substitution for the dvd - that really means that it would have been impossible to decode without the clue. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #149 January 13, 2004 It is just a substitution code. and you're on the right track bmcd. If no one had gotten it since quade last posted, then that makes me the first. See the attached picture. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #150 January 13, 2004 I've got a lot of the same characters, but I suspect that there's a typo in the first clue. I'll try to prove it and then repostOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
