student cypres with 190 main

[shmuelrich 0]

I got a student cypres with a little more then a year left on but just got a vector 3 container with a 190 main in it. So I was wondering what the general thoughts are about installing the cypres in that rig. IU it possible and safe?
Thanks

[Skybear 0]

The best idea is: Ship it to Airtec and ask them to change it to Expert-Mode. They change the modes free of charge, you just have to pay one-way shipping. Please do it for your and others safety.

[sniper1rfa 0]

To be fair though, as long as you work within the limitations of the AAD it won't be a problem. Activation altitude is only 250ft higher, and just don't pull any hard turns near or below activation altitude.

Then again, mode changes are free.

[firemedic 7]

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To be fair though, as long as you work within the limitations of the AAD it won't be a problem. Activation altitude is only 250ft higher, and just don't pull any hard turns near or below activation altitude.

Then again, mode changes are free.

IMO I'd go with the mode change.

[millertime24 8]

Sell it and get a Vigil II. Then you wont have to worry about "mode changes", or 4 year inspections. Just batteries and a 20 year life expectancy. Better value IMO. YMMV

Muff #5048

[sundevil777 102]

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To be fair though, as long as you work within the limitations of the AAD it won't be a problem. Activation altitude is only 250ft higher, and just don't pull any hard turns near or below activation altitude.

Then again, mode changes are free.

I believe the activation altitude is only different if you are in a mid-range of speeds, to allow it to fire for the scenario of a person that doesn't react to a partial malfunction - fast enough to kill, but much slower than the normal activation. In that circumstance, they wanted it to fire a bit higher than normal. If you are at the upper end of the activation speed range, it will still fire at the same altitude as an expert version. Someone will likely confirm exactly what speeds that 'mid-range' is.

SSK will be able to convert it to expert mode very quickly.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[j5okeefe 0]

I'd change it out... if you fly like an idiot you can easily get a two-out with a 190 - I would know.

I'll be whatever I want to do!

[shveddy 0]

A friend of mine thought he could get away with it.

All it took was a few extra pounds gained over the winter and a 90 degree toggle whip at 1000 feet to tickle his student cypres the wrong way.

On a Safire 189.

[Unstable 9]

Hmm, I have one bottle on my wall from a fellow who put a 190 in a student container. What was amazing was that he didn't really toggle whip it, he just did a slow, arcing 180 turn to set up a downwind leg, and *pop* out comes the reserve! Surprise!

=========Shaun ==========

[iliketofly 0]

CYPRES 1, or 2

[RIGGER 0]

CYPRES 1 will not be changed from STUDENT to EXP. Airtec do it with Cypres 2 only.

Using a STUDENT AAD with a 190 size canopy is a risk !!!

I would not count on the skydiver memory when he have fun under canopy - too risky & getting close to "2 OUT" - almost for sure.

I would not vote for an AAD that has no "Service Cycle", have 3 modes which might change at any time - it does happaned in the past by the user or by ??? Who is checking & Testing the AAD ? Done by itself ? Who is checking the inside electronic items ?

I know the person & he is jumping at our DZ, he will be fine, but from SAFTEY reasons he will NOT jump a Cypres STUDENT with his 190 main & as a Master Rigger I would not pack such a rig or let such a set up be airbore at our dz.

Skydivers who are giving advises for using such a set up should get some SAFETY education.

Be Safe !!!

[mjosparky 4]

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To be fair though, as long as you work within the limitations of the AAD it won't be a problem. Activation altitude is only 250ft higher, and just don't pull any hard turns near or below activation altitude.

Then again, mode changes are free.

To be fair maybe you should refrain from offering advice on how to mix and match gear. As Rob said there is more to it then I think you realize.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[shmuelrich 0]

I knew I'd see you here!!

[RIGGER 0]

I would like to see you skydiving happy & SAFE.

Cheers !!!

[shmuelrich 0]

With a rigger like you I don't have much choices And btw i got my container in and i need to send it to you

[davelepka 4]

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To be fair though, as long as you work within the limitations of the AAD it won't be a problem. Activation altitude is only 250ft higher, and just don't pull any hard turns near or below activation altitude.

No. A student Cypres is for a student, jumping a student rig, and pulling at student altitudes. Smart DZOs do not use a student Cypres in their student or rental rigs with canopies much smaller than a 220/230.

ADDs firing when they are not supposed to are a huge safety risk, and was the reason that AADs were 'persona non grata' until the Cypres hit the market, and proved that it could 'contain itself' when it needed to.

Skydiving is not an area where gear choices or configurations should be based on 'you should be ok', gear should be selected for it's intended purpose as stated by the manufacturer. Often times people disregard this with respect to the main canopy, and 'get away' with it, with the main reason being that the reserve and reserve system (as overseen by a rigger) are left intact and 'as designed'. To suggest that any part of the reserve system be mis-appropriated is dangerous and irresponsible.

[Scrumpot 1]

Another "instant expert" on absolutely everything amongst us.

sniper1rfa/petejones45 - should get together! Just imagine, with their clear and obvious combined braintrust and guidance/advice being provided to us all - skydiving could become instantly both exhilarating AND 100% absolutely safe!

I can't wait.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[mjosparky 4]

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Another "instant expert" on absolutely everything amongst us.

sniper1rfa/petejones45 - should get together! Just imagine, with their clear and obvious combined braintrust and guidance/advice being provided to us all - skydiving could become instantly both exhilarating AND 100% absolutely safe!

I can't wait.

Do you think either one would RTFM, or the OP.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Nelyubin 0]

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I would not vote for an AAD that has no "Service Cycle", have 3 modes which might change at any time - it does happaned in the past by the user or by ??? Who is checking & Testing the AAD ? Done by itself ? Who is checking the inside electronic items ?

http://www.vigil.aero/faq

[peek 21]

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... Activation altitude is only 250ft higher...

Please re-read the manual.

[Scrumpot 1]

Why? From what I've been reading of his recent posts, he should (or at least, I'm sure he thinks he should) be WRITING it!

WTF do any of us, possibly think we know?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[pchapman 279]

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... Activation altitude is only 250ft higher...

Please re-read the manual.

The noob is actually partially right. For the Cypres 1 & 2, in Student mode they can activate at 1000', for speeds between 29 mph and some higher speed Airtec won't tell us. For freefall speeds, the regular 750' applies. Activation may thus be "up to" 250' higher.

And so when it comes to flying around under an open 190 canopy, activation altitude is indeed 250' higher than for a regular Cypres.


Edit: Airtec does not show the student mode altitudes and speeds in any sort of clear table with numbers standing out. One has to read a paragraph to sort out what they are trying to say. Not user friendly.

[peek 21]

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Quote

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... Activation altitude is only 250ft higher...

Please re-read the manual.

The noob is actually partially right. For the Cypres 1 & 2, in Student mode they can activate at 1000', for speeds between 29 mph and some higher speed Airtec won't tell us. For freefall speeds, the regular 750' applies. Activation may thus be "up to" 250' higher.....Edit: Airtec does not show the student mode altitudes and speeds in any sort of clear table with numbers standing out. One has to read a paragraph to sort out what they are trying to say. Not user friendly.

Yes, the manual says the activation altitude is "split", but one can say that it is "split" for the Expert or Student model on any freefall too. If you are flat and stable belly to earth, approximately 750 feet, if otherwise, 1000 feet.

Canopy flight would be included in "otherwise".

I think we can all agree that it could be explained better.

[sniper1rfa 0]

Wow guys, sorry.

I almost didn't post, since I am obviously not very experienced. I ended up posting because it's not such a ridiculous statement as it's been made out to be here.

One DZ I've jumped at has a student rig with a 200 main and a student cypres 2. Also, we were very well briefed on the dangers of setting off your cypres while under canopy.

Furthermore, is it really that outrageous to read the manual for your equipment and then work with those limitations? No different than any other gear choice. Obviously the better choice would be to have it converted, but it wouldn't be crazy to jump it for a weekend and then send it in when you've got the time.


@peek: I did read the manual, which is why I know that 1000 ft. is the threshold for possible activation. Especially if you're already under canopy as your descent rate would be below that of freefall as explicitly stated in the manual.

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However, should the rate of descent be lower than that of freefall (whatever that is) but still above the limit of 29 mph (e.g. with partially opened canopy, or after a cutaway), then Student CYPRES activates the release unit when the alti- tude falls below approx. 1000 feet (approx. 300 meters) above ground level.

EDIT: and please don't compare me with petejones. I've read his posts - I like to think I, at the very least, use a little more logic and a little more punctuation than he does.

[davelepka 4]

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I like to think I, at the very least, use a little more logic and a little more punctuation than he does.

Yes, but your logic is flawed. The correct course of action is to use the right AAD for the jump you are going to do. If you plan to do a student jump, to include a student sized canopy, a student pull altitude and hard deck, and fly your canopy like a student, then by all means use a student AAD.

If any part of your jump will stray from what a student would be instructed to do, don't use a student AAD. Student ADDs exist because the actions of students and experienced jumpers present different needs for an AAD, different enough that Airtec took the time to develop an entirely seperate program for the student models (and a different colored on/off switch).

To expect that an experienced jumper, who's actions (and the actions of those they're jumping with) will differ from the actions of a student, to limit their actions to those of a student every time, on every jump, in every way, or risk an accidental firing of the AAD is not logical in the least.

The conclusions you come to are flawed because you're not fully informed about the subject you're commenting on. The conclusions may be logical to you, but your opinion is of little value in this case. In this way you are similar to P. Jones, and if you continue to insist that you are correct when others suggest otherwise, you will have another similarity to P.Jones. The line between the two of you continues to blur...