lawrocket 3 #1 January 19, 2004 This comes from a thread where there is some discussion about understanding. I know that those who have never jumped can understand a number of things about the sport. But, can 10 years of reading and researching skydiving and skydivers ever lead to a true "understanding" of it by a person who has never jumped? Or, would a person who has never jumped be limited to their empathy and imagination? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #2 January 19, 2004 No way......"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 January 19, 2004 Why not? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRock 0 #4 January 19, 2004 I tell people it is the closest you will ever get to God without actually meeting Him in person..... No one can possible understand what we experience without actually doing it.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #5 January 19, 2004 >But, can 10 years of reading and researching skydiving and skydivers > ever lead to a true "understanding" of it by a person who has never > jumped? Why'd you put understanding in quotes? They can understand it well enough to do it safely; we teach thousands of students enough to safely make their first AFF every year. They can understand the issues - I know several ultralight pilots who deal with the same access issues we do, and I knew a lot of climbers that had the same view of life, death and risk in the sport that we do. They can even understand the details. I've known two excellent skydiving pilots who gave consistently good spots (one without a GPS!) who have never jumped. But do they understand what it's like to jump with 20 other people next to a towering storm over a valley in Montana? You can bring them close with pictures, but that's something I think you have to experience to understand. Of course, even on that jump, no one else will understand _my_ experience on that jump, because it's been filtered through my own experiences, perceptions and expectations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 January 19, 2004 Can 'anyone'? sure Can 'everyone'? no way It's just a sport (although I'm pretty obsessive about it and think it's cool). So find someone obsessive in a another initially adrenaline/addictive sport and you'll find someone who understands. What about - "Who thinks being a skydiver makes them better than other people?" That'll ID the nuts 'in the sport for the wrong reasons'. These types of polls can bring out that question sometimes (check out the who's the better trackers poll in FF you can see some of the us vs them types (just adding fuel, pay no attention)) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycutie 0 #7 January 19, 2004 Of course not! Do virgins understand sex? MEN: you can't live with 'em, you can't shoot 'em, but you can act psychotic and keep 'em off balance. HISPA #10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #8 January 19, 2004 QuoteDo virgins understand sex? Bingo! Remember the day after the first time you had sex? You felt like you were in a different world; you had an awakening of sorts. Your perspective changed. (At least I know that myself and everyone else I've talked to about this felt that way.) It's the same thing with skydiving-- you can learn about it, but you don't "get it" until you do it. Plain and simple. It's a physical and emotional experience (EXPERIENCE being the key word in that sentence). Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #9 January 19, 2004 I think your answer adequately described why I put "understanding" in quotes. People can undrstand a lot of -things- about the sport, but never truly "understand" the sport. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 January 19, 2004 Quote Why not? Because the lack of common experience is an overwhelming barrier to communication. It would be a little bit like trying to describe "blue" to a person that has been totally blind since birth. The blind person may understand that there are certain frequencies of light that produce a certain sensation of in the eye and that is interpreted by the brains of sighted people to represent a "color" but the blind person can not have any way to understand what that is.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kai2k1 0 #11 January 19, 2004 Honestly I dont think they can understand it. Hell, I cant even put it into words myself. You can explain it to them, but its like a guy trying to understand the pain of childbirth. I have tried to explain the feelings, emotions, the adrenaline rush, but usually I get smiles and blank stares. I also think think that they can understand the act of skydiving but you cannot truly understand it until you have done it yourself. There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #12 January 19, 2004 Kelly and Bill answered better than I could. However, I like Kelly's better....Sex vs. reason anyday."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfrese 0 #13 January 19, 2004 I have a friend who is extremely excited about the progress made in virtual reality software and hardware. We were talking about this once, and he was basically saying how great it would be to experience the top of Everest, bungee jumping, or a skydive without leaving the comfort of your home. My question was basically "Why bother"? If you don't want to make the effort to really understand and commit yourself to the experience, is it really worth doing as anything more than an amusement park ride? We've covered the "are tandems really skydivers" topic ad nauseum here before, but I'd have to say yes to that. If you're willing to really put your ass on the line to experience something that you can really experience no other way, then I think you deserve the title. If you haven't stood in the doorway with the wind in your face and two or three miles of empty space between you and the ground, you'll never really understand what we do, no matter your level of empathy or imagination.Doctor I ain't gonna die, Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flygirl03 0 #14 January 19, 2004 I never understood until I jumped... Im not talking about the obvious rush of adrenaline... the wind, (cold) On my first jump I thought the air blowing past me was Loud. Prior to my AFF ground school. I had NO CONCEPT of anything that went on above pulling the canopy. I had never researched it. Had no clue. I just knew I wanted to fly the canopy. You can't see 12-5 k above the ground when observing from below. I had never even watched any skydiving videos... It was Really a surprise for me ...what goes on UP there ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ earthbound misfit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRock 0 #15 January 19, 2004 exactly...... except I wasn't alone on my first skydive....... Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #16 January 19, 2004 They can't understand it in the way that each of us does. But as Bill so eloquently put it, well, none of us understands it in exactly the way that others do. Can someone interested understand why we would want to jump? Probably -- most of us wanted to jump before doing it. Can they understand well enough to write about it? If they're imaginative -- and if they can write well, then they'll probably explain better than a mediocre write who skydives. But anyone who thinks they can truly understand something without experiencing it is the person who is least able to do so. Just about everything human is more complicated than it looks. Just as poverty and lack of education are more complex than most middle and upper class folks think. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #17 January 19, 2004 My wife does. She hangs out at the DZ when we're done, sees all the pictures, watches all the video. She's done two tandems and did my first kiss pass on the second one. She doesn't jump because she's concerned about our kids. Is snorkeling like SCUBA diving? Sorta. But the snorkeler understands the experience an order of magnitude more than the person on the beach, or even in the boat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #18 January 19, 2004 I say No. . .and here is my own life example as a reason. . . I researched, studied, read up on, talked to other skydivers, sat through 2-way camps, freefly camps, first jump courses, read issues of parachutist cover to cover, etc. . .all in a vain attempt to learn as much about the sport before I actually made a jump. My first jump was AFF 1. When I landed, my friend and roommate who had been putting up with my endless research (I am obcessive that way) asked me the question. . ."So, Darcy, how was it. . .was it everything you expected it would be?" And my answer remains in my signature line today. . .I said "Ed, you never really know till you do it, do you." With that he hugged me and we walked off the landing area. . .I now have 11 jumps and am working towards my A license. So I answer no from my own personal experiences and as a person who has participated in other extreme sports. This is totally different and no, you never will understand it till you make the jump. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #19 January 19, 2004 QuoteIt's just a sport (although I'm pretty obsessive about it and think it's cool). So find someone obsessive in a another initially adrenaline/addictive sport and you'll find someone who understands. That's pretty much what I was thinking (except for the grammar error ). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #20 January 19, 2004 I don't beleive some who has never jumped can understand it. They may comprehend what we describe to them as far as the wind, etc. goes, but communicating the emotion and physiological effects is in vain. Trying to describe it would be like trying to describe an orgasm to some one who has never had one. On the same note - Does some one with one skydive, perhaps a tandem, have the same understanding as one with ten jumps? A hundred? A thousand? Do I think I have the same understanding of the sport and the skydive itself as some one with 10,000 jumps? In some perspectives, yes, and in others, definitely not. I feel as we progress and learn more, and we gravitate towards our disciplines of choice, our understanding changes and evolves accordingly. Take two race car drivers, for instance. One drives dirt ovals and the other drag races. Both race, but very differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 January 19, 2004 I made a a a a a grammar error? where might that be? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #22 January 19, 2004 Sorry, I usually don't point out such petty little things, but since I was quoting you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingILweenie 0 #23 January 19, 2004 I think that someone can understand why we do it and the love we have for it if they have do a similar sort of sport. An attorney where i work is an avid rock climber and the way he talks about rock climbing, shows his pictures, and can't stand the winter because he is itching to climb is very similar to how i do it. To hear him describe the feeling he gets while rock climbing to me seems to be the same kind of love i have for the sport. I may not know the specifics unless i rock climb, like appreciate a hard climb or manuever just like he won't really know much about how cool it is to spock someone but I think that he can very much identify with the love and passion I have for skydiving much like I understand how he feels about rock climbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #24 January 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's just a sport (although I'm pretty obsessive about it and think it's cool). So find someone obsessive in a another initially adrenaline/addictive sport and you'll find someone who understands. That's pretty much what I was thinking (except for the grammar error ). Golfer: hole in one, Bowler 300 game, Stamp,coin collector: big find, Gambler, What ever floats your boat. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #25 January 19, 2004 <> How can you POSSIBLY understand what rock climbers feel? It's so incredibly special, that unless you do it, you must be some kind of sub-human without any real understanding of what it is to live life to the fullest. <> 1 - new skydivers are like that, some longtimers 2 - I'm not good with sarcasm, or grammer 3 - Likely this is just a semantics isssue in the poll as you can argue anything isn't the 'same' if you drill down into the details enough. (oddly related, but I find it distressing that when a student doesn't make the cut, the cliche is to recommend bowling or golf - it's more of an ego rub for the instructor since in this context it's obviously an insult to the student and bowling/golf) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
