zyne 0 #51 January 13, 2004 And I why shouldnt I be able to enjoy a smoke after a good meal? Two sides to this .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #52 January 13, 2004 QuoteAnd I why shouldnt I be able to enjoy a smoke after a good meal? Two sides to this .. Go for it! There's a whole big parking lot outside Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #53 January 13, 2004 Quote[2nd hand smoke is just as bad for those around you. My parents smoked a pack a day each, right around 13 I was diagnosed with asthma and reduced lung capacity due to it. Also my story. Filthy habit, and selfish considering others and even their own children in the mix. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #54 January 13, 2004 I respect your right to smoke as long as you respect my right to not have to breathe your smoke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #55 January 13, 2004 that was my point exactly. There are two sides. But, you're in a restraunt, not a smoking room. The idea is to enjoy the food. As was said, go smoke in the car park when your done Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyne 0 #56 January 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteAnd I why shouldnt I be able to enjoy a smoke after a good meal? Two sides to this .. Go for it! There's a whole big parking lot outside And that is what I do when eating at a smoke free restaurant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyne 0 #57 January 13, 2004 I for once loathe people who smoke around children .. probably as much as I dislike parents subjecting their kids to it in a public setting. The kid doesnt have a choice, but the parents do ... i'll be the first to admit that I'll quit the day I find out zyne jr. is on the way ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #58 January 13, 2004 QuoteAnd I why shouldnt I be able to enjoy a smoke after a good meal? Because your smoke is inhibiting me from enjoying my meal. Why isn't it cool for me to rip a satisfyingly righteous fart after a good meal at a restaraunt?.... Because it is offensive to others. I choose to be civil and go outside if need be. This is America though, and you are free to choose to be offensive if that is your wish._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #59 January 13, 2004 QuoteI respect your right to smoke as long as you respect my right to not have to breathe your smoke. (Not directed towards you, just the post) I do not respect any "right" to smoke..I will not "respect" smoke! I have never been for the smoking ban in bars law,,(it was not to protect, customers health either. it was $$, insurance,etc) 'There is a place for everything! This is sort of like the religious debates for example" One should keep their beliefs to themselves,then on the other hand maybe one should keep their dis-belief to themselves.(??) But to get back to original post" Female and smoking" I'm gonna inform my sister, before she next! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyne 0 #60 January 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteAnd I why shouldnt I be able to enjoy a smoke after a good meal? Because your smoke is inhibiting me from enjoying my meal. Why isn't it cool for me to rip a satisfyingly righteous fart after a good meal at a restaraunt?.... Because it is offensive to others. I choose to be civil and go outside if need be. This is America though, and you are free to choose to be offensive if that is your wish. First of all LOL!!!!!!!! By all means, if you feel the need to fart, go ahead .. I'm a smoker, my sense of smell is degraded anyhow I do see your point, and judging by your reply, I think you see mine. Bottom line is like you said, this is america (I'm greatful to be here Regardless of what is said in this matter there's always going to be a disagreement so I guess the appropriate approach would be to agree to disagree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #61 January 13, 2004 QuoteI've never heard a reasonable argument that justifies the cost vs benefit of smoking. There's practically nothing you can say in defense of it. You're right, there is nothing anyone can say in defense of it. But there's also no denying that smoking is an addiction, not, as many people (both lifelong non-smokers and "reformed smokers") seem to feel, a character flaw. The fact that some smokers find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to quit does not make them weak, lack willpower or any of the other ephithets that are thrown at them. Do you really think that smokers are proud of having this disgusting, smelly, deadly addiction? Do you really think that we enjoy spending our hard earned money on something that is far more likely to kill us than is jumping out of airplanes? QuoteSo the only constructive criticism is "quit, and quit ASAP". Yeah, that's real helpful. Y'know why some smokers get defensive when they hear "constructive criticism" from non-smokers? Because they've tried to quit. Repeatedly. Some even quit on a per-cigarette basis (that's my last one dammit!). And it's fucking hard. And they're tired of listening to self-righteous non-smokers tell them they are somehow less than okay because they are addicted to nicotine. Imagine trying to do something and failing. Repeatedly. How would that make you feel? Yup. It'd make you feel like a piece of shit. Now compound that by having people you care about tell you that your failure means you're weak, that you lack willpower, that you are somehow less than they are because everytime you try, you fail. I won't blow smoke in your face. I'll make an effort to keep the smoke from my cigarette from fouling the air that you breathe. In return I ask that you don't make me feel that I am subhuman because I have yet to quit smoking. Seems like a fair exchange to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #62 January 13, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8+ years smoke free! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25+ years smoke free! I quit in 1978 , did it cold turkey, but I had a big mountain to help me. I ran out and could not get out to a store for a week. IT sucked but the alternative was a whiteout, high winds, very cold and no idea where there was a cliff you might fall off. But it sure worked. I had started smoking when I entered the Air Force.. the old if you smoke you get a break... light em if you got em. It has been far better to live without that particular addiction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #63 January 13, 2004 that seems perfectly fair to me, Lisa. Smoke if you want to smoke. When or if you quit is entirely up to you and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone other than yourself. My requests to smokers: Please don't stand right outside the doors to a building. I can't get in or out without walking through a cloud. I'm not asking you to walk a mile, just a few more feet. Please use ashtrays or trash cans. Cigarette butts all over the sidewalk are gross. Smoking is fine, but please respect litter laws. Please don't blow smoke right in my face deliberately after I've moved upwind to avoid breathing it. Its just rude. If someone is smoking near me, I am always the one to get up and move if I possibly can, because in this case, I'm the one with the issue, so I need to solve the issue myself. I don't say anything, I simply re arrange my position so I'm not breathing smoke. Please don't take offense at that. Please do not light up in my home or car. I am more than happy to pull over and let you out so you can have your smoke, and then we can continue on our way. My balcony at home is also available to anyone who chooses to smoke while they are visiting. Lighting up inside, however, isn't cool. It seems like this is such a volitile issue that people can't discuss it calmly and make compromises. Non-smokers, if you don't like the smoke, and you can move without too much hassle, just move. No need to be rude, fake coughing, or develop an attitude. Smokers, please recognize that smoke can legitimately bother people, so please try to avoid smoking in areas where people are not able to easily avoid you if they need to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #64 January 13, 2004 QuoteI have never been for the smoking ban in bars law,,(it was not to protect, customers health either. it was $$, insurance,etc) A lot of restaurants that are doing the ban also are doing it for money reasons. A table with non-smokers spends less time at the restaurant after they are done with their meal than a table with smokers does. Which means faster turn around on tables which means more money.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfrese 0 #65 January 13, 2004 This is exactly the reason I don't try to pressure my friends to quit, or give them shit about it. It's also why I chuckled at zyne's post about "as soon as I find out there's a zyne jr. coming, I'll quit"...if it were only that easy... I'm coming up on 4 years smoke-free, but the urge STILL sneaks up and bites me in the ass occasionally. After the first few cigarettes, it's an addiction, no matter how much people try to claim otherwise. When you realize that the relapse rate of heroin addicts is way less than that of smokers, you get some idea how bad it really is. I have many smoking friends, and I try never to make them feel bad about it, because I've been there. If they ask me for advice on quitting, I'll give it to them...otherwise, I'll shut the fuck up. Unless they start complaining about hypoxia on the 18K loads, then I'll just go "Nyah, nyah, my lungs are better than yooouuurs"...Doctor I ain't gonna die, Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #66 January 13, 2004 A-fucking-men lisa We are tired of the mightier-than-thou self-righteous attitude.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyne 0 #67 January 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteI've never heard a reasonable argument that justifies the cost vs benefit of smoking. There's practically nothing you can say in defense of it. You're right, there is nothing anyone can say in defense of it. But there's also no denying that smoking is an addiction, not, as many people (both lifelong non-smokers and "reformed smokers") seem to feel, a character flaw. The fact that some smokers find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to quit does not make them weak, lack willpower or any of the other ephithets that are thrown at them. Do you really think that smokers are proud of having this disgusting, smelly, deadly addiction? Do you really think that we enjoy spending our hard earned money on something that is far more likely to kill us than is jumping out of airplanes? QuoteSo the only constructive criticism is "quit, and quit ASAP". Yeah, that's real helpful. Y'know why some smokers get defensive when they hear "constructive criticism" from non-smokers? Because they've tried to quit. Repeatedly. Some even quit on a per-cigarette basis (that's my last one dammit!). And it's fucking hard. And they're tired of listening to self-righteous non-smokers tell them they are somehow less than okay because they are addicted to nicotine. Imagine trying to do something and failing. Repeatedly. How would that make you feel? Yup. It'd make you feel like a piece of shit. Now compound that by having people you care about tell you that your failure means you're weak, that you lack willpower, that you are somehow less than they are because everytime you try, you fail. I won't blow smoke in your face. I'll make an effort to keep the smoke from my cigarette from fouling the air that you breathe. In return I ask that you don't make me feel that I am subhuman because I have yet to quit smoking. Seems like a fair exchange to me. I think that is the best response I've heard in a LONG time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #68 January 13, 2004 QuoteIf I go to a restaurant for dinner and smoke after my meal its by choice. But the stuck up asshole sitting on the other side of the restaurant whining about me smoking ALSO made a choice. It isn't your choice.. It's the ASSHOLE that decides to subject my family and I to his NASTY ASS HABIT, "NOT MINE!" that keeps us from going out half of the time.. It IS your right to smoke. BUT IF AND WHEN YOUR HABIT RUNS UP THE NOSTRILS OF A NON-SMOKER YOU ARE VIOLATING HIS OR HER RIGHTS.. Take your NASTY ASS HABIT OUTSIDE, BE CONSIDERATE, STOP BEING SELFISH.. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to subject my child in a restaraunt to 2nd hand smoke.. My 7 month old on the other hand HAS EVERY RIGHT NOT TO HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR BAD DECISION AND HABIT... THE ONLY REASON it is still allowed in some states is because we are still in the stone age.. It SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW to smoke in a vehicle with a child. Or in a house with a child.. Do I make myself clear? Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #69 January 13, 2004 QuoteWe are tired of the mightier-than-thou self-righteous attitude. This has NOTHING to do with it.. As long as your habit stays YOUR habit no biggie... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #70 January 13, 2004 move to california thenwww.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #71 January 13, 2004 QuoteNASTY ASS HABIT I respect that you will do whatever it takes to protect your children. But your words on this subject come across to me as self-righteous, provoking and demeaning. In fact, as a smoker, I feel they come close to being a personal attack on me. It's an addiction. Not a habit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyne 0 #72 January 13, 2004 Ahh the blame game ... its so ... 6 year oldish! Look, if you are looking at putting blame on someone, have some yourself. As a parent you should not subject your children to a harmful environment. Ludicrist? Yes, I agree .. same level as your comment. If I go out to eat and there is a smoking section in said restaurant I have no problems what so ever to fire one up. If you want to bitch and wine about it, that's fine, I'll give you that as it is your right. But don't come here and put the reponsibility on the smokers. You have just as much of a responsibility to keep yourself and your children away from it as I do so don't give me that shit. Do *I* make myself clear? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #73 January 13, 2004 QuoteSad but true. It's difficult to give constructive criticism with smoking though. I've never heard a reasonable argument that justifies the cost vs benefit of smoking. There's practically nothing you can say in defense of it. So the only constructive criticism is "quit, and quit ASAP". If you know the person well, you could help with the quitting, but here on the internet you really can't. actually there is "i enjoy it." ps i dont smoke...really, but i did have several cuban cigars while i was here..(cant indulge in much else in Iraq so..) and they were rather tasty..i wont make it habit, but it made a few moments better while it lasted.. the cost/benefit comparision is only something a person can decide for them selves...this applies to everything..drugs, alcohol, rich/fattening foods, and gasp even skydiving.. so it might kill you....so will lots of other things.. personally i dont mind smoke or smokers that much..occasionally its annoying, and i wouldnt want to smell like that all the time, so..i chose not to..if someone is annoying me, i can always go elsewhere or ask them to stop...its really not that difficult..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #74 January 13, 2004 Calm down, Lisa, you misread me. QuoteBut there's also no denying that smoking is an addiction, not, as many people (both lifelong non-smokers and "reformed smokers") seem to feel, a character flaw. Absolutely. My father is a prime example. It has also been proven in a court of law. It still doesn't make smoking any better, and it makes good education and good parenting even more important. People need to be prevented from starting to smoke, from putting even one cigarette in their mouths, because examples of the slippery slope are abundant. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with many people, and all you can hope is that they are naturally resistant to the addiction. Trust to luck, so to speak. QuoteYeah, that's real helpful. Y'know why some smokers get defensive when they hear "constructive criticism" from non-smokers? Because they've tried to quit. I understand, and my post was filled with bitter irony. Of course, you can't "hear" bitter irony over the internet, hence the misunderstanding. What I meant is "I wish I could help you quit, and if I knew you personally I would try, but the only thing I can tell you over the internet is that you need to quit." QuoteI won't blow smoke in your face. I'll make an effort to keep the smoke from my cigarette from fouling the air that you breathe. In return I ask that you don't make me feel that I am subhuman because I have yet to quit smoking. Seems like a fair exchange to me. Me too. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #75 January 13, 2004 Nice set of rules. What about after a winter of being shut in the house and car? You want to drive with your windows open, but can't because the guy in front of you at the stop is blowing it out the window and throwing the butts in the street...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
