Airviking 0 #1 January 22, 2011 I bought a Racer Elite which came stuffed with an over-sized main. Managed to psycho-pack the canopy somewhat back into the D-bag, but there is no friggin way I'll get the container shut, and if I do, there's no way I'm gonna fight that much on each pack job. So I'm thinking of having the closing loop extended. And I'm not talking 1/2" here, more like 3". Other than looking like shit, is there any problem with this?I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #2 January 22, 2011 first off, manufacturers have sizing-charts for a reason. and adding 3", good luck with that.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #3 January 22, 2011 "Good luck with that" meaning what? It can't be done?I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #4 January 22, 2011 You can't overstuff a Racer like that. The flaps have no stiffeners, and the corners are 'open' so when the pin is pulled they disappear. These are good things for deployments because it's less to get in the way or inhibit the bag from exiting the container. It's bad for overstuffing because the flaps will bunch up in the center, and you'll have all sorts of shit sticking out of the corners. You want to avoid lengthening the closing loop beyond where the flaps will all be touching when the rig is closed. Having an open space in the middle, and all of that closing loop snaking around is not good. One thing you can do (if it's not already done) is to mount a much shorter closing loop on the bottom flap as opposed to inside the container. It makes it easier to close, but you need to tack the closing loop to the bottom flap or you'll lose it everytime. Also, make sure you're doing a 'good' job of bagging the canopy. The corners should be full, and the bundle you put in the bag should be roughly the same size and shape of the bag, so the bag will fit better in the container. If you're trying to shove a square-ish shape into a more rectangular bag, then fit it into a rectangular container, the end result won't be very pretty. If you're having that much trouble, and feel like you need 3 more inches of closing loop, maybe have a rigger or more experienced packer have a look at the rig and see if it 'checks out'. Mismatched equipment is never good, and the problems can range from just being annoying, to not functioning well at all. A second opinion might be in order. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #5 January 22, 2011 On the pin flap what does it say for main container, should have some letters followed by some number. And what's the size of the main? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firemedic 7 #6 January 22, 2011 Quote"Good luck with that" meaning what? It can't be done? I think the question should be. Should I do it? If the canopy is just to big to fit the rig so it closes properly, then you are asking for trouble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #7 January 23, 2011 you *can* do almost anything; doesnt mean it's a good idea. not that i've seen much, but if i've NEVER seen a rig with a 3" closing-loop, i'd have a couple questions to the owner, in that case.. maybe the powers to be at my dz are especially picky, but hell would rather freeze over than they'd let you on the plane with a set-up like that. this comes to mind; but maybe that's really exagarated. my new rig is a "tight" fit for both reserve and main-canopy, and while it was hard to pack at the beginning, i've had to shorten the closing-loop several times, to the point where i contacted the manufacturer and they made me send pictures to confirm it was still ok. other than that, listen to what dave had to say and not me.“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #8 January 23, 2011 See, now THAT's helpful info. Yeah, this main container is much less structured than what I'm used to. I don't think it is overstuffed to the point of shit sticking out the corners if and when I finally get it closed. No, the mod you mentioned where the closing loop is attached to the first flap rather than inside the container has not been done, but it looked to me like it would make sense considering this particular fit issue. The psycho pack produced a rock-hard pack job, pretty much the proportions of the main container, albeit larger in all directions. According to the seller, the combo was OK'd by a rigger. And considering the unstructured (no corners) design of the Racer, I don't see a safety issue. So, the options are: a) see if I can make this work b) negotiate with the seller for a refund (This may be difficult for a variety of reasons) c) look for a main that will fit, (170-190 ZP) for cheap and put the PD210 that's in there up for sale.I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #9 January 23, 2011 Quotethe mod you mentioned where the closing loop is attached to the first flap rather than inside the container has not been done It's not hard to try it on for size. Take the closing loop out of the bottom of the container, and tie it off so it's about 3 inches long. It only has to be long enough for the three other flaps to thread through it. Thread the loop through the bottom flap, and try to close it that way. If it seems to help, have a rigger help to set up a more 'permanent' solution. The deal with the unstiffened flaps and unconstructed corners is that when you put them under tension, they don't hold their shape. Other containers are so built-up that they keep their shape better under load (until the stiffeners crack and the corners split open). Like I said, good for openings, bad for over-stuffing the rig. The other guy is right, look on the inside of the reserve pin cover flap, there will be two numbers such as 350/350 or 425/450, and those are the pack volumes for the main and reserve containers (but I forget which is which). Post those numbers, and we can figure out what should fit in the rig, and see if you're close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #10 January 23, 2011 dave thanks for clarifying what info I was asking for Just took this picture as an example: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_EMg6SsNIQDk/TTuLnqiAx4I/AAAAAAAAAm0/lQt-Q7GiGKs/s800/IMAG0006.jpg The 475 and 475 listed are for container sizes in cubic inches. Top one is main and bottom is reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #11 January 23, 2011 Thanks V-B, Just to clarify: Being that the rig has the closing loop attached at the bottom of the main container, it's already well over 3" long. With some serious wrestling, I can get it through the first flap by maybe 1" if I'm lucky. But at that point, I'm already distorting the rig, and the stiffener in that first flap is being bent to shit. So, I'd say that I need another inch right there. Additionally, I need to allow the left-right flaps to separate by maybe an inch. Same for top-bottom. That's why I'm throwing out +3" for discussion. The math may not be accurate.I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #12 January 23, 2011 Thanks Dave, Yeah, I'll check it out later today. Cheers!I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #13 January 23, 2011 Quote dave thanks for clarifying what info I was asking for Just took this picture as an example: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_EMg6SsNIQDk/TTuLnqiAx4I/AAAAAAAAAm0/lQt-Q7GiGKs/s800/IMAG0006.jpg The 475 and 475 listed are for container sizes in cubic inches. Top one is main and bottom is reserve. The container volume is 475. But the question isn't whether the canopy is too large for the container. That is obvious. (Even with a rock-hard psycho pack, i.e. no air whatsoever, a third of the canopy is ouside the D-bag.) The issue is whether or not I can make this work. -Cheers!I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #14 January 23, 2011 if it's REALLY that bad, you may want to look into a smaller canopy.. chance of any pictures? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 5 #15 January 23, 2011 Just curious as to why you psycho-packed it...? Have you tried pro or flat packing it?Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #16 January 23, 2011 Tried flat pack, first time in 22 years. But after Z-folding, the stack just looked way too tall to fit (even partly) into the the bag. And sure enough, it all got away from me. I figured it was so much taller than I remembered due to this being a 9-cell versus my old 7-cell Pegasus This should add about 30% more layers of fabric to the stack. Being that both Pro Pack and Psycho Pack are new to me, I chose Psycho, because it just looked so much easier and better controlled, especially considering the size problems I have.I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #17 January 23, 2011 QuoteAccording to the seller, the combo was OK'd by a rigger. An OK by a rigger doesn't mean much - you can get a rigger's ticket in a week if you have the money to throw at it. Takes more than a week to learn the finer points of gear sizing; having a piece of paper that says you know something doesn't mean you actually know shit... If the size of the main is larger than the manufacturer recommends, it's not OK. Overstuffing containers leads to stretched out flaps and grommets pulling out - not to mention how much fun they are to pack. Quotelook for a main that will fit, (170-190 ZP) for cheap and put the PD210 that's in there up for sale. If a PD210 is too big, a "cheap" used 190 zp is going to be too big as well - pack volumes are basically the same. And it'll be way less fun to stuff into that bag, especially if all your packing experience is with F111. If it were me, I'd go with option b and then find someone who knows something about gear to help me find a rig that will actually work for me. Might cost a bit more, but if you'd done so in the first place you wouldn't be stuck with a rig that isn't going to work for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #18 January 23, 2011 Seconding pictures, a 475 should fit a 190 zp, I have had 190 zp and a 200 hybrid canopies in my container with no over stuffing and it was Jump Shack who picked the container size for the canopy size I was looking at. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #19 January 23, 2011 Quote Seconding pictures, a 475 should fit a 190 zp, I have had 190 zp and a 200 hybrid canopies in my container with no over stuffing and it was Jump Shack who picked the container size for the canopy size I was looking at. If a 190ZP fits, then a 210 lopo should be damn close. Someone PM'd me showing me the error of my ways.I'm starting to think the biggest problem here is I gotta calm the fuck down.I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drewcarp 0 #20 January 24, 2011 I have "heard" that overstuffing a main tray "could" lock you reserve in should you have a total main malfunction. Someone with more experience could probably elaborate? -D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #21 January 25, 2011 The rig's going back to the seller. Just too many thing that aren't quite right. I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
