davelepka 4 #26 January 30, 2008 Quoteall you can do is take steps to make sure it doesnt happen again That step is not to alter your gear. The step is cutting out the part of the jump where somebody's foot gets near your handle. While your at it, keep their hands away from your handles too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #27 January 30, 2008 Probably! But this is a Florida solution to a Florida problem that does not translate gracefully to colder climates. Try to imagine a jumper - in a colder climate (below freezing) - all bundled up with bulky ski gloves, high collar, stiff hands, etc. He suffers a malfunction and wastes the rest of his life trying to find a soft handle that feels a lot like his puffy jacket. This is why the French Parachute Federation banned small handles in the Northern/frozen part of France during the winter months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #28 January 30, 2008 Quote Quote Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them. Geez, Dave. There I was trying to lead him to realizing for himself that maybe the real issue wasn't gear related and you go and put it out there... Protecting your handles is a very old and very basic is a very old and very basic safety issue. Unless somebody comes up with a revolutionary new system that does away with handles altogether, there will always be that risk, no matter what kind of handles you're using. Handles are an issue anywhere near or outside the open door and all the way down, even on the ground where you may need to use or prevent their use after you've landed. It has ever been thus. Changing your handles won't help as much as constant vigilance. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #29 January 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them. Geez, Dave. There I was trying to lead him to realizing for himself that maybe the real issue wasn't gear related and you go and put it out there... Protecting your handles is a very old and very basic is a very old and very basic safety issue. Unless somebody comes up with a revolutionary new system that does away with handles altogether, there will always be that risk, no matter what kind of handles you're using. Handles are an issue anywhere near or outside the open door and all the way down, even on the ground where you may need to use or prevent their use after you've landed. It has ever been thus. Changing your handles won't help as much as constant vigilance. Lets go back a second.... We are talking about the cutaway handle, not the ripcord.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #30 January 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them. Geez, Dave. There I was trying to lead him to realizing for himself that maybe the real issue wasn't gear related and you go and put it out there... Ah, yes... but even the OP indicated the concern of "what would have happened if it where my reserve pillow he kicked out instead of my cutaway"... And as many have replaced their reserve handle with soft handles, the concern is valid. Short of removing the handles completely, I must agree that protecting them will always be an issue. Years ago blast handles were designed to solve a safety issue... and killed folks along the way. Personally I'ld rather have handles that I can find/grab/use when needed and deal with co-jumper education issues to (hopefully) keep them where they should be during the exit/dive. Just my $.02 JW Protecting your handles is a very old and very basic is a very old and very basic safety issue. Unless somebody comes up with a revolutionary new system that does away with handles altogether, there will always be that risk, no matter what kind of handles you're using. Handles are an issue anywhere near or outside the open door and all the way down, even on the ground where you may need to use or prevent their use after you've landed. It has ever been thus. Changing your handles won't help as much as constant vigilance. Lets go back a second.... We are talking about the cutaway handle, not the ripcord. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robconway 0 #31 January 30, 2008 just to clarify again, im not altering my gear. i am putting it back the way it was when i got it from Wings. Altering it was, "i think" what contributed to the problem. the hard inserts where something i added to my rig later on, its not the way it came. i had to order a new reserve pillow with the insert in it from the factory and my rigger put the same insert into my cutaway handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #32 January 30, 2008 Quoteyes, i am removing the hard insert from my reserve handle. It's always fun to watch people with only a few hundred jumps redesign parachute equipment made by people with decades of experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #33 January 30, 2008 Quote It's always fun to watch people with only a few hundred jumps redesign parachute equipment made by people with decades of experience. First let me say, good point, and also that I know that only a very small portion of those people with only a few hundred jumps will fall into the category that I am about to mention. But, a designer is a designer morning, noon and night, always and every day no matter where he goes, and no matter how much experience he has at a particular subject. You take anyone of those guys with decades of experience that you speak of, and place them in a new (gear dependant) sport, that they know little about, and I promise you with in the first week all of them will have their own ideas about redesigning the gear. Although they will probably keep those ideas to their selves until they better understand them. Do you think that Bill Booth, Ted Strong, etc, etc had thousands of jumps and decades of experience when they first start running gear designs through their head, or farther. He did say that he bought the handle in question from the manufacture. It was not the one that came with the rig, but obviously one that they were comfortable selling for his particular rig. He is obviously in close contact with the factory and his rigger. Now after an incident he is reverting back to the factory original. Sounds to me as if this guy with only a few hundred jumps is really thinking, which is soooo much better than those that we all deal with that have no idea how their gear even works. I say kudos to him. But again, John has a good point. Although this got a lot longer than I intended and may sound as so, I am not flaming anyone, especially John. Just adding my $.02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #34 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them. Geez, Dave. There I was trying to lead him to realizing for himself that maybe the real issue wasn't gear related and you go and put it out there... Protecting your handles is a very old and very basic is a very old and very basic safety issue. Unless somebody comes up with a revolutionary new system that does away with handles altogether, there will always be that risk, no matter what kind of handles you're using. Handles are an issue anywhere near or outside the open door and all the way down, even on the ground where you may need to use or prevent their use after you've landed. It has ever been thus. Changing your handles won't help as much as constant vigilance. Lets go back a second.... We are talking about the cutaway handle, not the ripcord. No, we're talking about handles, any and all of 'em. Pull any one of them loose and you've got troubles. They do different things, true. But handles is handles. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #35 February 6, 2008 > Pull any one of them loose and you've got troubles. Being unable to pull any one of them and you have much bigger troubles, though. Modifications that make it harder to pull those handles should be considered as a last resort, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #36 February 6, 2008 Quote > Pull any one of them loose and you've got troubles. Being unable to pull any one of them and you have much bigger troubles, though. Modifications that make it harder to pull those handles should be considered as a last resort, IMO. So a pair of blast handles isn't the way to go? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #37 February 6, 2008 What about blast handles and that new fangled spectra ripcord. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #38 February 7, 2008 Quote Quote > Pull any one of them loose and you've got troubles. Being unable to pull any one of them and you have much bigger troubles, though. Modifications that make it harder to pull those handles should be considered as a last resort, IMO. So a pair of blast handles isn't the way to go? Blast handles work great! Just gotta be smarter than the handle, but we are talking about skydivers now ain't we?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #39 February 7, 2008 >So a pair of blast handles isn't the way to go? Drilled out blast handles, baby! The worst of both worlds! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 7 #40 February 18, 2008 Blast handles only killed people when the people started modifying them. Like sewing down the housing. (does this post make me sound old? because I'm not. I want to clarify that. I can't stand old people.) BTW: My Javelin has two different soft handles available. It came with the regular softies on both sides. A couple of years later I ordered the Fat Daddies and put them on. The old ones are still OK to use.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #41 February 19, 2008 QuoteBlast handles only killed people when the people started modifying them. Like sewing down the housing. Designed for use in ejection seat use the “Blast handle” is really an “anti-wind blast handle”. It was used by pilots who in almost every case had never jumped before. The center post was not drilled out, this defeats the “anti-wind blast” aspect of the design, and the housing was hand stitched to the webbing. This was to keep the handle in the same place so the pilot would know where to look for it. Sound familiar? The same thing manufactures of sport rigs do today. As was posted earlier by a very knowledge lady, this is not a gear problem. It is a problem of designing dives that are safe and not allowing others to compromise your safety by getting near your handles. Accept responsibility for your own safety. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #42 February 19, 2008 Quote> Pull any one of them loose and you've got troubles. Being unable to pull any one of them and you have much bigger troubles, though. Modifications that make it harder to pull those handles should be considered as a last resort, IMO. I'm in complete agreement. Handle mods are not the answer, I'm not sure where or how I gave anyone that impression. What I mean is we all have to be responsible about protecting our handles and staying away from everyone else's. No more & no less. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #43 February 19, 2008 I noticed something a while back in a video of a three way I was in... In free-fall my cutaway pillow gets blown to almost an outboard position...as did the handles on the other two guys on the dive. I use a reserve side ripcord so it wasn't moving, the other two guy had 'both' pillow handles flopping. My old rig has a much harder and smaller pud that stays put, I've used it several times in various situations, and though I look to grab, it's always been set in place...this thread has got me to thinking I may call about getting one like that old style handle on my new rig. Am I missing something...does everyone's soft handles more around like that? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,363 #44 February 19, 2008 Hi Air, Most freefall photos that I have seen show the soft handles flopping to the outside. That is why I do not like them. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #45 February 20, 2008 I'm at something like 17-18 cutaways now (lots of CRW.) A few weeks ago I had my pre-second reserve ride with a pillow reserve handle. I immediately went and ordered a metal handle. It was considerably harder to find and felt just like everything else on my rig. The metal ones are way easier to work with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #46 February 20, 2008 QuoteI'm at something like 17-18 cutaways now (lots of CRW.) A few weeks ago I had my pre-second reserve ride with a pillow reserve handle. I immediately went and ordered a metal handle. It was considerably harder to find and felt just like everything else on my rig. The metal ones are way easier to work with. Nothing like cold hard metal to hook a thumb into, I have 14 cutaways no RSL and never had a problem or dropped a handle. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #47 February 20, 2008 >does everyone's soft handles more around like that? Many of them do, yes. The pictures of our 4-way team taken from below show the handles blowing outwards on all four of our rigs - a Vector, Talon, Mirage, and Reflex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #48 February 20, 2008 Quote >does everyone's soft handles more around like that? Many of them do, yes. The pictures of our 4-way team taken from below show the handles blowing outwards on all four of our rigs - a Vector, Talon, Mirage, and Reflex. http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Relative_Work/Slider_Twardo_50.html Took another look...40 seconds in there's a good shot of my cutaway handle...I've seen Tandem outboards that didn't stick out THAT much! Gonna have to do something about it! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #49 February 20, 2008 >Gonna have to do something about it! Why? Do you have trouble finding them in that position? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #50 February 20, 2008 Quote >Gonna have to do something about it! Why? Do you have trouble finding them in that position? It's my demo rig...3 'sets' of hardware attachment rings on it and yeah, it might not be 'handy' outboard.I'd like to keep it inboard like my other rigs, sometimes I have a 3 foot banner container running down my right side, armpit to boot heel, I'm sure I could dig it out if needed, but why add a link in the chain. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
