Cincinnati PD - death after arrest

[Jimbo 0]

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The responsibility for how to figure out a way to subdue someone without killing them is not mine, it is the police's.

If you don't like it then do something about it. Political activism, R&D, offering your time to train the police with new more effective methods, they are all things that you CAN do to change the current state.

Like I said before, sit up there on your throne and criticise, it's easy.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[marks 0]

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I would have hypnotized him - does that make you happy?

The responsibility for how to figure out a way to subdue someone without killing them is not mine, it is the police's.

Yet, you find it your responsibility to critsize and condemn those that are required to do something that you will not or cannot do yourself.

Yes, I criticize the fact that their chosen method killed the guy (or at least was a heavy contributor). If you are the police and your methods result in the death of a person, I don't think it's unreasonable to say: "why don't you investigate your methods?". But I suspect that there will be no such investigation/analysis because of the prevailing mood (as exemplified by your own attitude) which is to simply say that "the guy had it coming".

he did have it comming!..

but of course there will be an investigation...

dont loose faith man.. geese.... free country..!

[Jimbo 0]

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Yes, I criticize the fact that their chosen method killed the guy (or at least was a heavy contributor).

You don't know how much the baton assault contributed to his death, do you?

Other "heavy contributors" to his death could have been the PCP, the coke, and his enlarged heart. If you actually take the time to think about this, it seems far more likely that he died as a result of the physical stress brought on by the PCP, coke, and physical activity and an enlarged heart that couldn't handle it. It's seems unlikely that he died from a few baton blows to the legs and back. Don't you think?

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[andrewstewart 0]

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Yes, I criticize the fact that their chosen method killed the guy (or at least was a heavy contributor).

You don't know how much the baton assault contributed to his death, do you?

Other "heavy contributors" to his death could have been the PCP, the coke, and his enlarged heart.

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Jim

True, but it's unlikely that he was just going to drop dead that night. I'm thinking that the ten minute beating might have had something to do with it.

[Michele 1]

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You don't know how much the baton assault contributed to his death, do you?

Considiring that there was no bruising found on his torso, head, or neck (per many newscasts) but were instead confined to his legs and hips/buttocks, I suspect the baton usage did very little to contribute to his death.

Rather, the PCP, crack, methanol, and oversized heart led to conditions which could not sustain the adrenalin issues involved in an altercation with the police.

And Andrew, you still haven't answered the question. Hypnotism requires a willing subject, and this suspect was not a willing subject.

You don't know what you'd've done differently - you've said as much. Since you are rampantly willing to criticize (from your throne, as Jimbo put it), and not offer a viable solution but rather think sarcasm and a facetious reply is best, I would suggest you 'fess up to not having a solution, but rather an issue with the cops.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Jimbo 0]

Should we put any blame on the suspect for allowing the assault to continue for 10 minutes? After all, he could (a) not hit the police officer, and (b) complied with their orders. Both would have avoided the confrontation.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[freeflir29 0]

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White cops have never gone after blacks just because they're black . . . bzzz . . . wrong. I would hope we're past that, but history has shown that it does occasionally rear its ugly head. Using "but . . . but . . . we're a race-blind society!" to avoid seeing that sort of injustice is foolish.

Bill? I see a tiny right wing baby in there...Let it come on out.....

[Kennedy 0]

"The guy had it coming" is not the prevailing attitude. Police constantly analyze their methods. Have you looked at a cops duty belt lately? Gun, baton, asp, oc spray, cuffs, plus what's in many trunks now: pepperball. Training is improved on a regular basis. CALEA: read up on it.

Just because some people are way out there, don't strawman the rest of us.

By the way, when your job includes dealing with humanity at the lowest common denominator, bad things tend to happen.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[AggieDave 6]

Have you seen that new commercial with Brett Farve in it, the "Monday Quaterback"?

This thread really really reminds me of that commercial.


Anyways, A baton is consider a "less then letal" weapon. Such as firing a specially made bean bag out of a shotgun, using a taser, pepper spray or the new pepper spray "paintball guns".

There is no promise that any of those options wouldn't have ended in the same way. Basically, I feel like it quite possibly ended the same way, due to the suspect's condition.

Oh, lets take the bean bag weapon. Its a shotgun shell that fires out of a shotgun, however, instead of shot, it is basically a small bean bag. When those hit a suspect, it does more damage (in one shot) then the bruising the suspect recived (assuming the cornor's report was correct).

So I'm guess that wouldn't have made certain viewpoints happy...

Pepper spray? That has been shown to be non-effective against people on PCP.

What's left? Well, the tazer. On someone with an enlarged heart? 85-90% fatal.

There are some other forms of Less-then-lethal, but a large majority of law enforcement agencies don't have them. That is for a number of reasons, primarily: 1. Cost and 2. They don't work very well.



Oh look, there's a dead horse in the corner, lets all go kick it, since this thread will most likely die a painful death before too long anyways.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kennedy 0]

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Have you seen that new commercial with Brett Farve in it, the "Monday Quaterback"?

This thread really really reminds me of that commercial.

You know, I was thinking the same thing and I started the thread.

Main difference I see is that Favre was giving good advice afterwards.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[andrewstewart 0]

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Oh look, there's a dead horse in the corner, lets all go kick it

Well, I agree with you on that point.

[Kennedy 0]

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Oh look, there's a dead horse in the corner, lets all go kick it

Well, I agree with you on that point.

Does that mean you have something to say about the rest of his post?

Still waiting for an answer the the question.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[SkydiverRick 0]

Yeah, but he is also dead because he was beaten with batons for 10 minutes.

[TheAnvil 0]

There will be no liberal outcry because they rely upon racism as a political motivator. If the hatred/fear of white racism didn't exist and weren't cultivated, how else would the left motivate that portion of their voting base?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Jib 0]

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There will be no liberal outcry because they rely upon racism as a political motivator. If the hatred/fear of white racism didn't exist and weren't cultivated, how else would the left motivate that portion of their voting base?

Brib, er, subsidies.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[n2skdvn 0]

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Oh look, there's a dead horse in the corner, lets all go kick it

I think the horse is burnt to a crisp with all the flame throwers going off.

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[PhillyKev 0]

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That's not my job. It IS the police's job though. It is the job of the police to create appropriate strategies for dealing with situations; one's that don't end up with someone being killed unless absolutely necessary.

They have done exactly that. They used the force necessary to subdue him that would have the least chance of killing him. Their other option was to shoot him. Police and other industries are constantly investigating ways to subdue criminals in the most humane way possible. Nothing has been found to be 100% effective.

Here is the responsibility of the police:
1) Protect the public from criminals
2) Protect themselves
3) Don't harm the criminals

In this case, unfortunately, in order to accomplish 1 and 2, 3 couldn't be done. Why? Because of the direct actions of the criminal himself.

I know you'll refuse to answer again, so I won't ask again. But, considering that you admittedly don't have a clue what other option they had to subdue this guy, on what basis can you claim that they did anything wrong?

The only way I can figure out how to easily jump from 14k feet is by riding up in an airplane. It's not the most environmentally friendly thing to do, though, is it? Am I negligent because I don't use a different method?

[Kennedy 0]

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True, but it's unlikely that he was just going to drop dead that night.

Unlikely? In his shape and wandering around all messed up in a city? I would say it's possible he would have survived the night. He did pass out in front of a fast food joint after all.

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I'm thinking that the ten minute beating might have had something to do with it.

The coroner disagrees. He said the strikes did not cause death. According to the news, the coroner said he died as a result of the struggle, not as a result of the baton strikes. Let's a think about that whole enlarged heart, hopped up on three drugs, 350 lbs., plus stress and adrenaline thing.

I see two ways the struggle could have been avoided:
1) shoot him
2) let go on about his merry way

So which would you have done?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Jimbo 0]

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So which would you have done?

I'd have stopped everything I was doing, dropped to my knees, and prayed for world peace. That's what I would have done.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Luv2Fall 0]

I just spewed coffee all over my screen.

[marks 0]

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So which would you have done?

I'd have stopped everything I was doing, dropped to my knees, and prayed for world peace. That's what I would have done.

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Jim

and then i would have shot him after he came after me,...

[fasterfaller 0]

He got what he deserved .

[tcnelson 1]

the baton strikes were by the book; large muscle groups and no joints or head.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[mjosparky 4]

There is an old saying that fits this situation. "If you are going to be stupid, you had better be tough". Sounds to me like he was stupid but not all that tough.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ChileRelleno 0]

I wouldv'e shot him.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
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