Parachute Rigger Handbook

[riggerpaul 1]

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The book is available free online and it's a fabulous resource for anybody interested in rigging. I'm glad that what I was told was wrong; it belongs on every rigger's bookshelf.

Not mine!

This manual has several issues and a contract has been inititated for it's immediate replacement.

The "issues" range from personal opinion of pratices to lack of knowledge of the CFRs(FARs) in a few areas.

...but it sure has some pretty pictures in it!

MEL

Echoing likestojump's inquisitive attitude, please tell us all you can about the contract for replacement.

What, exactly, do you mean by "initiated"?

Is there a contract our for bids? Has the job been awarded? It is a single source procurement? Do you know who is writing or how much money the contract involves?

It shouldn't be a secret of any sort, so please elaborate on your teaser.

[LouDiamond 1]

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The book is available free online and it's a fabulous resource for anybody interested in rigging. I'm glad that what I was told was wrong; it belongs on every rigger's bookshelf.

Not mine!

This manual has several issues and a contract has been inititated for it's immediate replacement.

The "issues" range from personal opinion of pratices to lack of knowledge of the CFRs(FARs) in a few areas.

...but it sure has some pretty pictures in it!

MEL

Really? Please share this information with all of us. While I am not too concerned with the personal opinions part, as you can always find another rigger that will disagree with another's practices and you know what they say about opinions. However, I would like to know which FARs you are referring to, please provide page number,paragraph, etc so I can reference it. Thanks.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[masterrigger1 2]

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What, exactly, do you mean by "initiated"?

They (AFS-630) is looking for someone to write a replacement manual.
Mr. Johnny Malone is the POC AFAIK.

I will post some ifo regarding "Issues" with the PRH later...right now I'm headed out the door to go skydiving.

Later,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[riggerpaul 1]

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What, exactly, do you mean by "initiated"?

They (AFS-630) is looking for someone to write a replacement manual.
Mr. Johnny Malone is the POC AFAIK.

I will post some ifo regarding "Issues" with the PRH later...right now I'm headed out the door to go skydiving.

Later,
MEL

Is there a call for bids? Or is it just something some people are thinking about?

[masterrigger1 2]

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Really? Please share this information with all of us. While I am not too concerned with the personal opinions part, as you can always find another rigger that will disagree with another's practices and you know what they say about opinions. However, I would like to know which FARs you are referring to, please provide page number,paragraph, etc so I can reference it. Thanks.

Lou,

I just saw your post as I was heading out, but felt I should at least give you one example.
page 1-7...record keeping

Look at the example in figure 1-8. You will note that on the example "inspect and repack" was noted as the work performed.

In CFR 65.129 (c), it states that a rigger cannot pack a parachute that has not been thoughly dried and aired.

There is no longer a set minimum time (used to be 48 hours, then 24 hours, and then 8hours minimum), but still has to be done AND ALSO RECORDED as set forth in CFR 65.131(4)...the kind and extent of work performed.

So the bottom line here is if you have just "inspect and repack" on the data card, you did not comply with 65.131(4)

In reality you have to write Air, Inspect, Repack to be correctly recorded as per the CFRs.....

This actually is one that I just happened to notice when I opened the book to BTW........


MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[theonlyski 8]

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So the bottom line here is if you have just "inspect and repack" on the data card, you did not comply with 65.131(4)

In reality you have to write Air, Inspect, Repack to be correctly recorded as per the CFRs.....

Well hell man, should I be writing:

Check pull force
Observe PC launch
Unstow lines
Removed canopy from freebag
Check serial numbers on data card for all components
Check for SB/AD's
Inspect PC - freebag assembly
Inspect canopy
Inspect lines
Inspect slider
Inspect harness
Inspect container
Ensured canopy was dry
Change closing loop
Apply cypres silicon to new closing loop

..... and so on?

That would easily take up most packing cards, but if we're to log all of the work we do, then it would be required.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[masterrigger1 2]

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Well hell man, should I be writing:

Check pull force
Observe PC launch
Unstow lines
Removed canopy from freebag
Check serial numbers on data card for all components
Check for SB/AD's
Inspect PC - freebag assembly
Inspect canopy
Inspect lines
Inspect slider
Inspect harness
Inspect container
Ensured canopy was dry
Change closing loop
Apply cypres silicon to new closing loop

..... and so on?

That would easily take up most packing cards, but if we're to log all of the work we do, then it would be required.

Dude, you probaby right (enter being sarcastic here), but the regs do not state that you have to do all of those things.

But it does state that you have to Air it....., and inspect it..., and pack or repack it.


For now, let's just stick to the basics of what the regs do tell you to do.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[theonlyski 8]

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Dude, you probaby right (enter being sarcastic here), but the regs do not state that you have to do all of those things.

But it does state that you have to Air it....., and inspect it..., and pack or repack it.

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There is no longer a set minimum time (used to be 48 hours, then 24 hours, and then 8hours minimum), but still has to be done AND ALSO RECORDED as set forth in CFR 65.131(4)...the kind and extent of work performed.

Well, which is it? Do we log all of the work and the extent performed, or do we just log that we aired, inspected and repacked it?



And, to throw some more gas on this one

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(c) Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.

Where does it say we have to log it on the parachute data card? It just says we have to log it on OUR logs.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[BrianM 1]

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(c) Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.

Where does it say we have to log it on the parachute data card? It just says we have to log it on OUR logs.

I have no idea where it says that.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[theonlyski 8]

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(c) Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.

Where does it say we have to log it on the parachute data card? It just says we have to log it on OUR logs.

Where does it say we have to log work performed and extent of it, on the data card?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[riggerrob 643]

While "airing" may still be mentioned in the FARs, on a practical level, "airing" ceased to be obligatory when nylon replaced silk.
That was because silk parachutes were often damaged by mold, mildew, worms, moths, mice, etc.

Because few organisms eat nylon, there is little risk of the nylon parachutes being destroyed by biological organisms.

Dry, clean nylon can be repacked with little risk of deterioration.

Let's try to steer this conversation away from "barracks lawyering"and be more pragmatic.

[riggerrob 643]

When completing parachute maintenance records (reserve packing data card and rigger's logbook) we often write shorthand.

For example, the abbreviation "A.I.R." means "assembled, inspected and packed in accordance with Federal Air Regulations, manufacturer's instructions, Service Bulletins, Airworthiness Directives, Advisory Circulars, etc."

... because it is illegal to do the work without consulting all those sources.

[masterrigger1 2]

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While "airing" may still be mentioned in the FARs, on a practical level, "airing" ceased to be obligatory when nylon replaced silk.

Rob,
Show me in writing were it is not required!

It is kind of a moot point after I have pointed out it is still required and stated in the regulations though.

I am going out on a limb and guess that you simply write I&R on the data card..right?

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That was because silk parachutes were often damaged by mold, mildew, worms, moths, mice, etc.

Because few organisms eat nylon, there is little risk of the nylon parachutes being destroyed by biological organisms.

You have got to be kidding!
Mold will deteriorate nylon, that is undisputed and is also some of the basic knowledge required for the written exam.

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Dry, clean nylon can be repacked with little risk of deterioration.

Exactly why the rule is still in effect.

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Let's try to steer this conversation away from "barracks lawyering"and be more pragmatic.

I do not consider point out the regulations as "barracks lawyering".

BTW,philosophical teachings (being more pragmatic) are best left to the Professors in some of the colleges abroad, not when teaching or pointing out fact based regulations.

Are you sure you didn't help Sandy right the book

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[riggerrob 643]

No, I did not help Sandy write the FAA manual, however, I did work with Sandy for three years, so many of his attitudes, biases, opinions, etc. rubbed off on me.

Similiary, if you want to hear my professional opinion on Phantoms, just read what Manley Butler wrote circa 1990, because many of Manleys' attitudes towards PEPs rubbed off on me when I worked with him.

[theonlyski 8]

Mind answering my question?

This one

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[masterrigger1 2]

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Mind answering my question?

Well yes, to some extent, but will point out a few things to you.

1. The only thing the FAA is interested in is the canopy. Just look at what is requires to be documented (recorded) in part 65.

2.The H/C is never mentioned in part 65 as having to be recorded.

Minimum standards are what I am interesetd in.
The minimums required are to Air, Inspect, and repack a canopy prior to use. These are the absolute minimums for recording also.

On the other end are "givens", Givens are things that are neccesary for the job, like changing the closing loop, etc. which should be done on each pack job. ( actually a test question on the FAA written BTW).
I personally do not log givens, but you can if you so desire.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[theonlyski 8]

MEL,

Thanks for that one, however, I was more wanting your reply to this one:

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Look at the example in figure 1-8. You will note that on the example "inspect and repack" was noted as the work performed.

And:

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So the bottom line here is if you have just "inspect and repack" on the data card, you did not comply with 65.131(a)(4)

I don't see where that is wrong, as 65.131(c) states:

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Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.

It doesn't say that you must log all of the work performed on the pack data card, just the date, place, defects found, sign and cert number. So how is ONLY logging I-R illegal, if we don't have to log more on the data card, only OUR log books?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[LouDiamond 1]

Mel, aside from the one issue you have mentioned already, what other FAR issues have you noted in the manual?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[likestojump 3]

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Mind answering my question?

Well yes, to some extent, but will point out a few things to you.

1. The only thing the FAA is interested in is the canopy. Just look at what is requires to be documented (recorded) in part 65.

2.The H/C is never mentioned in part 65 as having to be recorded.

Minimum standards are what I am interesetd in.
The minimums required are to Air, Inspect, and repack a canopy prior to use. These are the absolute minimums for recording also.

On the other end are "givens", Givens are things that are neccesary for the job, like changing the closing loop, etc. which should be done on each pack job. ( actually a test question on the FAA written BTW).
I personally do not log givens, but you can if you so desire.

MEL

aren't you doing exactly what you are so adamantly opposing by giving your opinion of practices ?

[masterrigger1 2]

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aren't you doing exactly what you are so adamantly opposing by giving your opinion of practices ?

Paul,
There is no requirement for logging givens, only capital actions or work performed. Not personal opinion, just fact as per the regulations.

Another point is that I am not writting a book that will be a basis for training and endorsed by the FAA.

The major complaint is that this book should have had a major peer review before it's release.
It never did.......


BS.
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[masterrigger1 2]

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Mel, aside from the one issue you have mentioned already, what other FAR issues have you noted in the manual?

Lou,
I will point out a couple more. Just trying to get my day started...

Starting from the front of the manual....

Section 1-2 Testing.

(2) each of the form 8610-2's are required, not just one as is stated in the PRH.


Facilities and Tools, section 1-6

A 40 foot table is REQUIRED by the regs when packing a round parachute.(actually required period as per the CFRs)

The PRH states that any smooth surface will do.
It references the manufacturer requirements being just a smooth surface.
One has to remember that the manufacturer requirements cannot trump or minimize the Administrator's requirements.


BS,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[theonlyski 8]

MEL,

You still haven't answered this one?

You stated:

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Look at the example in figure 1-8. You will note that on the example "inspect and repack" was noted as the work performed.

And:

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So the bottom line here is if you have just "inspect and repack" on the data card, you did not comply with 65.131(a)(4)

I don't see where that is wrong, as 65.131(c) states:

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Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.

It doesn't say that you must log all of the work performed on the pack data card, just the date, place, defects found, sign and cert number. So how is ONLY logging I-R illegal, if we don't have to log more on the data card, only OUR log books?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[masterrigger1 2]

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You still haven't answered this one?

You stated:

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In Reply To
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Look at the example in figure 1-8. You will note that on the example "inspect and repack" was noted as the work performed.

The notations should be at LEAST Air, Inspect, and repack......not just I&R.

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So the bottom line here is if you have just "inspect and repack" on the data card, you did not comply with 65.131(a)(4)

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I don't see where that is wrong, as 65.131(c) states:


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Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.

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It doesn't say that you must log all of the work performed on the pack data card, just the date, place, defects found, sign and cert number. So how is ONLY logging I-R illegal, if we don't have to log more on the data card, only OUR log books?

Both the parachute record and the parachute rigger should contain the same info!

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[theonlyski 8]

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The notations should be at LEAST Air, Inspect, and repack......not just I&R.

...

Both the parachute record and the parachute rigger should contain the same info!

But, where does it say we have to log ANY work done on the data card?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[tdog 0]

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Both the parachute record and the parachute rigger should contain the same info!

MEL

MEL... Since your issue with this part of the Parachute Rigger's Handbook is that you believe the recommendations don't follow the regulations and are full of personal opinions - with all due respect, can you please cite the specific paragraph that shows that when you say "should" - it is not your personal opinion on that.

FYI, one of my mentors (who then also was my DPRE) had me in my preparation for the exams compare and contrast the regulations for what a rigger must maintain in their records vs what a rigger must maintain on the parachute's records and chart this on paper... Then in the exam he verbally quizzed me on this as he read the Regulations as I recited them back by memory. This academic study of the regs, at least in my mind, proves the FAA's official regulations are different for the two separate documents. This study and then exam by my DPRE is endorsed by the FAA as the Practical Test Standards (for those non riggers, this is the document that the FAA publishes for the exam process) cites Task E being:

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E. TASK: RECORDATION
REFERENCE: 14 CFR section 65.131.
Objective. To determine that the applicant demonstrates knowledge of recordation by creating a sample record of a:
1. packing record.
2. maintenance record.

Thus, I disagree that the documents are required to be the same (although I agree that good record keeping is complete and accurate and thus probably should be the same, but not required to be.)

In fact, since the documentation regulations are different paragraphs with different words (and not merged into one paragraph or two duplicate paragraphs) - the FAA is intending the documentation requirements to be not exactly the same.

For those following along who don't have the regs handy, here they are (emphasis and headings added):

RIGGER'S LOGBOOK

(a) Each certificated parachute rigger shall keep a record of the packing, maintenance, and alteration of parachutes performed or supervised by him. He shall keep in that record, with respect to each parachute worked on, a statement of (1) Its type and make; (2) Its serial number; (3) The name and address of its owner; (4) The kind and extent of the work performed; (5) The date when and place where the work was performed; and (6) The results of any drop tests made with it.

(b) Each person who makes a record under paragraph (a) of this section shall keep it for at least 2 years after the date it is made.


PACKING DATA CARD

(c) Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.

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analysis of the regs:
ITEMS IN COMMON
Date of service
Place of service
Defects found
If the parachute was packed and inspected (indirectly implied by the words "the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds")

ITEMS UNIQUE FOR RIGGER'S RECORDS
Kind and extent of work performed
Results of Drop Tests
Type and Make (although 'make' is normally also a printed on the parachute card)
Name and address of owner (although these are normally also printed fields commonly found on the parachute card)

ITEMS UNIQUE FOR PACKING DATA CARD
Signature (Name)
Certificate Number

So MEL, where do I have it wrong? Where is it more than opinion, but regulation, that the card MUST say "A, I, & R" instead of "packed"?