turtlespeed 220
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rehmwa 2
QuoteThere is such a thing as being fiscally conservative while socially liberal. Just ask Robert Rubin or Jon Corzine.
You want your social programs but don't want to pay for them (or want someone else to pay for them). Sounds democrat. You really can't have it that way.
The best you can do if you are fiscally conservative is to be socially conscientious, but not liberal. That's where "voluntary" charity comes in play.
So how about fiscally conservative but socially we all mind our own business and people deal with their own issues and not expect (DEMAND) their neighbors or some strangers to pay for it? This is neither party. Maybe libertarian as much as anything.
I like how PhillyK votes. For the individual.
Remember, the alternative to GWB was Al Gore. We definitely have the right man in place when you consider the alternative.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Muenkel 0
Well put Rehmwa.
Chris
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Chris
Chris
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Chris
quade 4
Quote
You want your social programs but don't want to pay for them (or want someone else to pay for them). Sounds democrat. You really can't have it that way.
WHOA!
Take a look at what GWB and the Republican Congress has done over the last few years and tell me again which party is the party of spending like a fool?
The only real major difference I can see is that the Republicans are trying to pass it off to future generations (and Democratic Party problems) in the form of deficit spending.
Long story short?
Democrats = tax and spend.
Republicans = tax cut but spend anyway.
Do the math.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
QuoteThe only real major difference I can see is that the Republicans are trying to pass it off to future generations
The other difference is that the democrats typically spend it on social programs to improve the quality of life for needy individuals. The republicans spend to increase the profits of corporations in the hopes that will make its way down the hierarchy.
Hazarrd 1
Quotemerry christmas and study more.QuoteAll I can see is bad stuff tlike taking away our civil liberties and rolling back laws that protect our environment.
Study more? Enlighten me please!
.-.
Lovely tactic of only quoting part of what I said and not leaving any indication that there was more. Also no indication that I was responding to someone else.
Here is what I said:
"Again we have an issue of which president did the right thing. The intelligence gatherers don't change with the administration, only the administrations interpretation of the intel does I don't see how you can say one president was stupid and ignored good intel and another was stupid and paid attention to bad intel."
You also didn't respond to this bit:
"Colon Powell said we had pictures of 600 sites where we were sure WMDs were stored. Last I heard 400 had been checked (months ago) and no weapons found. There was one report early on about drums suspected to contain Sarin gas but they needed further testing. Never heard about them again. Two Al Samud missles were found on a trailer parked in the woods. Missles of the same type that were being actively destroyed. Sounds to me like a truck driver decided not being in that truck with an invasion going on was a good idea."
And my comment about when SH used them was also in response to another who was using that as justification for the invasion.
BTW I am not in the military now but was, in intel no less.
"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Here is what I said:
"Again we have an issue of which president did the right thing. The intelligence gatherers don't change with the administration, only the administrations interpretation of the intel does I don't see how you can say one president was stupid and ignored good intel and another was stupid and paid attention to bad intel."
You also didn't respond to this bit:
"Colon Powell said we had pictures of 600 sites where we were sure WMDs were stored. Last I heard 400 had been checked (months ago) and no weapons found. There was one report early on about drums suspected to contain Sarin gas but they needed further testing. Never heard about them again. Two Al Samud missles were found on a trailer parked in the woods. Missles of the same type that were being actively destroyed. Sounds to me like a truck driver decided not being in that truck with an invasion going on was a good idea."
And my comment about when SH used them was also in response to another who was using that as justification for the invasion.
BTW I am not in the military now but was, in intel no less.
"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes
tbrown 26
Bush is a lousy president and history will judge him harshly.
He took a budget surplus, left behind from those awful tax & spend Democrats and turned it into a deficit that dwarfs the one his lod man left behind.
He flat out LIED to the American people about his reasons for going to war in Iraq. But we can blame ourselves and our members of Congress for swallowing the lies and letting him do it.
His "No Child Left Behind" initiative is a pure testing regimen that drains resources away from actual teaching and provides an excuse for draining away education dollars to private schools after public schools fail in a program that fails by design.
He's inflicted his personal religious beliefs on all of us, which I find deeply offensive as a recovering former Christian.
He's CUT TAXES DURING WARTIME !?!?! Do I need to explain how stupid that is ? And beyond a slim $400 bribe, we're not getting any of the tax relief. We're paying for this party that he's given to the richest 5%. WE are paying for this war, and not only with the blood of sons, daughters, spouses, brothers and sisters. We're PAYING for it with our tax burden. You don't think Bush and his pals are paying for any of this with a drop or blood or a single dime, do you ? FUCK NO THEY AREN'T, WE ARE !
Finally, he's stripped away our Constitutional rights. Better watch what you say, or you too can be declared an "enemy combatant", and held without trial, without charges, without legal counsel, without a visit from your family, withhout anyone even knowing where you're locked up. If they can do it to Jose Padillo, they can do it to you and you and YOU.
But Bush talks a good talk. Somehow he manages to to whip up the white male vote into a collective hard on and they just keep voting for him.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
He took a budget surplus, left behind from those awful tax & spend Democrats and turned it into a deficit that dwarfs the one his lod man left behind.
He flat out LIED to the American people about his reasons for going to war in Iraq. But we can blame ourselves and our members of Congress for swallowing the lies and letting him do it.
His "No Child Left Behind" initiative is a pure testing regimen that drains resources away from actual teaching and provides an excuse for draining away education dollars to private schools after public schools fail in a program that fails by design.
He's inflicted his personal religious beliefs on all of us, which I find deeply offensive as a recovering former Christian.
He's CUT TAXES DURING WARTIME !?!?! Do I need to explain how stupid that is ? And beyond a slim $400 bribe, we're not getting any of the tax relief. We're paying for this party that he's given to the richest 5%. WE are paying for this war, and not only with the blood of sons, daughters, spouses, brothers and sisters. We're PAYING for it with our tax burden. You don't think Bush and his pals are paying for any of this with a drop or blood or a single dime, do you ? FUCK NO THEY AREN'T, WE ARE !
Finally, he's stripped away our Constitutional rights. Better watch what you say, or you too can be declared an "enemy combatant", and held without trial, without charges, without legal counsel, without a visit from your family, withhout anyone even knowing where you're locked up. If they can do it to Jose Padillo, they can do it to you and you and YOU.
But Bush talks a good talk. Somehow he manages to to whip up the white male vote into a collective hard on and they just keep voting for him.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
QuoteBut Bush talks a good talk. Somehow he manages to to whip up the white male vote into a collective hard on and they just keep voting for him.
Because, as we all know, if you give a white male a hard on he is easily fooled and has no brain of his own and cannot possibly have a pretinent stance on anything, right? So because I am a white male and I happen to like Bush I must be led around by my hard on because I must be stupid.
give me a break . . .
Oh and I find his faith refreshing. But of course that means I must be stupid too right because I am a Christian and not ashamed of it?
And he is not inflicting it you. Free speech gives him the right to say what he believes just as you have the right to say what you do. Or because he is the President should he NOT have the right to speak his mind because it may offend you? Or are you saying that a man of faith has no right to be President and that the position should be reserved for those of non-Christian persuasion?
Which of the civil liberties should the President loose? Free speech or Freedom of Religion? So do you have a problem with loosing certain rights but not others? Or do you believe that those rights are only for you and those who think like you?
n2skdvn 0
this thread is like a pencil in use it's losing It's point......
if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
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rehmwa 2
QuoteQuote
You want your social programs but don't want to pay for them (or want someone else to pay for them). Sounds democrat. You really can't have it that way.
WHOA!
Take a look at what GWB and the Republican Congress has done over the last few years and tell me again which party... etc. etc.....
Democrats = tax and spend.
Republicans = tax cut but spend anyway.
Do the math.
No issue here, I was speaking to fiscal conservative/social liberal position. It's pretty much what we have right now. I'd rather take my cut and eliminate the programs. I'll make sure my grandmother can afford medicine and make a good insurance choice and I won't steal from my neighbor to do it.
As far as spending parties, it seems even simpler than you put it. If EITHER party gets into substantial control, spending goes nuts. I'd always rather see a split in congress. My issues with Dem politics is their special interests are more wackier than the Rep's special interest and I never hear facts, only emotional arguments. Again, if we could knock out the extreme elements of both parties, we'd likely have a little common sense regardless of who's running the show.
And Bush is a far better choice than Gore 3 years ago, and any of the current choices right now. (I wouldn't be upset with Leiberman if it came to it, still happier with Bush, but the rest of them are nuts. And Hillary is crooked and fully motivated only by self interest. And none of them yet seem able to state a position without a slam on the current admin. They can whine, or they can role up their sleeves and get to work. Maybe someone will step up. If not, I don't see any change this time around. Nor should their be.)
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
AdD 1
QuoteIn the case the case of Iraq and the WMDs, the Administration has to show us proof that he -did- have the weapons of mass destruction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He had them...He used them...He admitted to having them...the question is what did he do with them?
And he never answered that question.
Do you know how mad it makes me to be forced to take Saddam Hussein's side because of what Bush said prior to the war? I don't think anyone is saying he complied perfectly with the UN, but that has nothing to do with what Bush lied about. Bush originally justified the invasion on the basis of Iraq posing a credible threat to the US, even though the intelligence community seems to have disagreed. There seem to have been no WMD's which posed this threat. Soon the issue became bringing democracy to Iraq, and subsequently the insurgents became terrorists and all of a sudden we're fighting the war on terrorism in Iraq. If you could honestly say to me that you believe Bush isn't a liar I would be sorry for you, but not as sorry as I am for every american who has had the wool pulled over their eyes by every president during my admittedly short lifetime and many before that. I don't blame them or you though, and I certainly don't hate america or any of that horseshit. What really gets to me is american media that lets them get away with that and more. And now that the economy is back in full swing Bush has a better chance of re-election, which also pisses me off, not because of the prosperity but because any idiot can get an economy going with billions in fiscal spending, it's simple macroeconomics
Canada got into trouble with massive deficits dating back to Trudeau, and now money which could be better used goes to debt maintenance. My generation is paying for the excesses of those before, but at least we got some value for the money that was spent so recklessly. Bush isn't helping the average american with these tax cuts, they are geared to the rich. Now I don't really have a problem with this from my point of view because there is a possibility i can take advantage of them some day by moving to the states, but when I hear that Bush is acting in the interest of the average american joe I can't help but wince. 90% of americans believe they are middle class, yet 70% live on a combined family income of less than 50k. The American health care system spends more per capita than Canada's, but only 60 some percent have coverage. Bush is a good president in the sense that he excells in the duplicity that seems to be a standard in politics rather than the exception, but if you tell me he represents any degree of moral integrity or economic vision you'll have to excuse me while I puke.Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream
AdD 1
QuoteOh and I find his faith refreshing. But of course that means I must be stupid too right because I am a Christian and not ashamed of it?
How can anyone who professes to be a follower of Jesus so completely ignore his teachings? When Jesus was crucified was he making empassioned speeches about retaliation from the cross? I don't f@cking remember that passage. How about thou shalt not kill? How is it that the most religious leaders are so often the most militant? The hypocrisy is ridiculous. How anyone can reconcile war with their faith is really beyond me. I respect people who live every day by the same principals.
Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream
QuoteThe hypocrisy is ridiculous.
Jesus taught peace but he didn't rule out the necessity for war. I'm not going to try and teach you the Bible but look up these versus and read the entire text associated with them:
[Matthew 10:34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. -- Jesus
[Luke 11:21] When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
[Luke 11:22] But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
[Luke 22:36] Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
[Rom 13:2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power [of governments], resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[Rom 13:3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
[Rom 13:4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
And this is just from the New Testament.
QuoteHow about thou shalt not kill?
This commandment is usually interpreted as thou shalt not murder. There is a difference between murder and killing according to most learned people.
QuoteI respect people who live every day by the same principals
You have to understand those principals before you judge them against those principals.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin
kallend 2,026
Maybe you should re-read the Sermon on the Mount.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
koz2000 1
whoo-hoo politics...
Maybe if slick Willy was still in office he and Sadam could have hit the bong and Sadam would have given up his WMD's and become a registered voter....
Don't you think anyone, even slightly nuts, would have anything illegal removed if the US said, "hey in a couple of months we're going to invade." If the IRS said we're going to audit you in two months, wouldn't you have the cleanest tax records?
Maybe if slick Willy was still in office he and Sadam could have hit the bong and Sadam would have given up his WMD's and become a registered voter....
Don't you think anyone, even slightly nuts, would have anything illegal removed if the US said, "hey in a couple of months we're going to invade." If the IRS said we're going to audit you in two months, wouldn't you have the cleanest tax records?
______________________________________________
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -
QuoteDon't you think anyone, even slightly nuts, would have anything illegal removed if the US said, "hey in a couple of months we're going to invade." If the IRS said we're going to audit you in two months, wouldn't you have the cleanest tax records?
And although we were able to identify 600 sites where we were sure there were WMDs we didn't see a single site be cleaned out? Give me a break.
"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes
QuoteMaybe you should re-read the Sermon on the Mount.
I've read it. I just read it again. I find nothing in it that disputes what I have said. You have to read the rest of the Bible to understand the entire message.
http://www.biblepath.com/beatitudes.html
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin
billvon 2,990
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Don't you think anyone, even slightly nuts, would have anything
>illegal removed if the US said, "hey in a couple of months we're
>going to invade."
So if your home were about to be attacked by someone who planned to capture you and kill your sons, the first thing you'd do is get rid of your guns, then fight them off with slingshots?
I think there might be a bit of a hole in your theory, there.
>If the IRS said we're going to audit you in two months, wouldn't
> you have the cleanest tax records?
If the IRS were going to audit you, and you had not (at least in the past three years) done anything wrong, you'd cooperate, right? You'd let them look through your records; that way they'd leave you alone eventually if they followed their own rules. You might balk a bit if they wanted to go through your bedroom drawers, of course, but overall you'd cooperate.
Odd, that's what Saddam did . . .
>illegal removed if the US said, "hey in a couple of months we're
>going to invade."
So if your home were about to be attacked by someone who planned to capture you and kill your sons, the first thing you'd do is get rid of your guns, then fight them off with slingshots?
I think there might be a bit of a hole in your theory, there.
>If the IRS said we're going to audit you in two months, wouldn't
> you have the cleanest tax records?
If the IRS were going to audit you, and you had not (at least in the past three years) done anything wrong, you'd cooperate, right? You'd let them look through your records; that way they'd leave you alone eventually if they followed their own rules. You might balk a bit if they wanted to go through your bedroom drawers, of course, but overall you'd cooperate.
Odd, that's what Saddam did . . .
souleh 0
Phew, I need a lie-down. Reading this thread has tired me out 
I've read shorter uni thesises
'buttplugs? where?' - geno
I've read shorter uni thesises
'buttplugs? where?' - geno
Jimbo 0
QuoteOdd, that's what Saddam did . . .
After how many months of leading UN inspectors around on a leash, denying access to sites, and jerking around the UN? Sure, he finally did it, but who knows what he did in the time between the initial 'inspections', and the time that the US demanded full access?
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Jim
"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
And I am sure as he saw the gauntlet being drawn he made no decision to move/destroy/sell the evidence. Because as we all know he is innocent. We are talking about a guy who forced his people to fight with no shoes, nothing white to surrender with, very little ammunition, and no food back in 91. A guy who is a stand up model human being and would never deceive anyone.
Poor ole Saddam. He is such a victim in all this. The big bad Imperialistic Republican American's held him accountable after years of giving the world the finger.
Boy I sure feel sorry for him. He is such and honest guy and there is no way that since we did not find anything that it did not exist. Especially since he had months of warning. We were so able to watch every aspect of Iraq that he could not possibly have hidden things without our knowledge. He couldn't even hide himself without those Americans knowing. They were just playing cat and mouse, waiting for the perfect moment to capture him. This damn Republican lie! Those evil Republicans made all this up. Those evil white males with their collective hard-on rooting for the big bad GWB.
Shame on us. Bad! Bad American! Bad Republican!
No soup for you!
Poor ole Saddam. He is such a victim in all this. The big bad Imperialistic Republican American's held him accountable after years of giving the world the finger.
Boy I sure feel sorry for him. He is such and honest guy and there is no way that since we did not find anything that it did not exist. Especially since he had months of warning. We were so able to watch every aspect of Iraq that he could not possibly have hidden things without our knowledge. He couldn't even hide himself without those Americans knowing. They were just playing cat and mouse, waiting for the perfect moment to capture him. This damn Republican lie! Those evil Republicans made all this up. Those evil white males with their collective hard-on rooting for the big bad GWB.
Shame on us. Bad! Bad American! Bad Republican!
No soup for you!
Yes, he is
and this is post #4000
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
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