Old reserves

[Airviking 0]

I'm in the process of piecing together a rig for cheap.
I've got a container that'll work, and an awesome main, and 2 reserves to choose from.

Brought it all up to my local rigger, who went on a rant about old gear, and how it should all just be thrown in the dumpster. (Last time I spoke to him about gear, it was to get his opinion about a rig that was available for $1,200 because the owner was through skydiving and just wanted to cash out. When the rigger heard the price, he went on a rant about cheap gear, and how it should all be thrown in the dumpster.)

The offending piece of gear is a reserve, Security X210, DOM: 1984.

The chute has been inspected and repacked frequently up to now. Assuming it passes inspection, is there any reason to think that it is not airworthy?

I believe you have my stapler.

[riggerrob 643]

Security X210R may have been the best reserve available - when it was introduced in 1983 - but much better reserves have been built since then.

Packing that diaper is "funky!" Even though I have packed hundreds of round reserves with diapers, I still needed to stare at the X210R manual before packing it.
Oh! The last time I packed an X210R was at the turn of the century.
Which brings us to another problem: GQ Security closed their American factory in 1984. More recently, GQ Defence/Airborne Systems has said not to pack any of their products more than 15 or 20 years old. I forget the exact number.
The other problem is that

[Unstable 9]

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Packing that diaper is "funky!" Even though I have packed hundreds of round reserves with diapers, I still needed to stare at the X210R manual before packing it.

That is exactly how I feel when I do Strong 304s for a few customers of mine ~ the first few line stoes play tricks with my mind.

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Security X210R may have been the best reserve available - when it was introduced in 1983 - but much better reserves have been built since then.

Water rig! You, your rig, a life vest, a buddy with a boat, and a DZO willing to give you a pass over the lake...

=========Shaun ==========

[Airviking 0]

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Security X210R may have been the best reserve available - when it was introduced in 1983 - but much better reserves have been built since then.

Packing that diaper is "funky!" Even though I have packed hundreds of round reserves with diapers, I still needed to stare at the X210R manual before packing it.
Oh! The last time I packed an X210R was at the turn of the century.
Which brings us to another problem: GQ Security closed their American factory in 1984. More recently, GQ Defence/Airborne Systems has said not to pack any of their products more than 15 or 20 years old. I forget the exact number.
The other problem is that

Where'd you go Rob? Looks like you got cut off mid-sentence.

So, I guess my two questions are:

1. Is it airworthy?
2. Is it legal?

GQ's statement about not repacking their older stuff: Was it in the form of an official release of some sort, or was it just a casual statement? Like I mentioned, this reserve has been kept in-date up to now.

I believe you have my stapler.

[sundevil777 102]

That sparked a memory, they use a diaper instead of a freebag, is that correct?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Airviking 0]

Until today, I'd never seen the inside of a reserve container, but it looked like a free-bag to me. Just like a main DB, except the lines stow in a velcroed pocked.

I believe you have my stapler.

[theonlyski 8]

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Packing that diaper is "funky!" Even though I have packed hundreds of round reserves with diapers, I still needed to stare at the X210R manual before packing it.

That is exactly how I feel when I do Strong 304s for a few customers of mine ~ the first few line stows play tricks with my mind.

No shit!!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[mark 107]

Unless the manual said otherwise, if your X210R came with a diaper, removing the diaper and using a freebag would be an alteration. If so, the canopy must be marked to show that it has been altered. Without alteration approval, the canopy would not be a legal reserve, even if it had been packed many times, and even if it had been used successfully.

Mark

[mjosparky 4]

If memory serves me the X210R came with both a diaper and a free bag. I had one with the free bag. But like Rob said GQ shut down there operation in the states years ago and want to distance them selves from older gear. I would stay away from it if given the choice.
For what its worth they land like shit.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Airviking 0]

Alright, so I've got two reserves, and the plan was to keep the "Hyndai" and sell the "Toyota" for budgetary reasons. But it's sounding here like the Hyundai's due for the scrapyard.

Anyway, the better reserve is a Glidepath Fury, DOM 1989.

I believe you have my stapler.

[riggerrob 643]

Fury 220s had a pretty good reputation.
They flew like most of the other 220 square foot, seven-cell, F-111 mains made during the early 1980s.
I only jumped a Fury a handful of times, but thought that it opened and landed much like my Cruislite 220.

The only thing I did not like about the Fury was the way it landed HARD, when I stalled it into the peas ... oh! wait a minute! Did any of that class of canopies land gracefully when you stalled them into the peas?
Hah!
Hah!
Oh! ... and Furies are still in production, so you can still find manuals and order spare parts from the factory.

[Airviking 0]

Well, the Fury pack volume is 527c.i., and the racer resrve container is 500. Will this be an issue?

I believe you have my stapler.

[sundevil777 102]

Does the Fury have packing tabs? Cut them off and you'll reduce the pack volume.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Airviking 0]

Yeah, and the data panel. And the slider. All kinds of ways to reduce pack volume, ehe?

I believe you have my stapler.

[pchapman 279]

I'll note that there is some debate about the GQ rules as they apply to the old US company. I have, for example, email from the new company in the UK where they basically say they are a separate business entity from the old US GQ, and thus have nothing to say one way or another about the state of the old products. This was in response to a specific question about the life of reserves from the US GQ company.

Riggers are free to make their own choices.

Still, it would be nice to have something more standard than a diapered X210, even if one still gets an older reserve.

[Airviking 0]

Thanks,

That's good info. Yeah, we'll see how the inspection looks, and then I'll decide what to do. Again, I'm 90% sure that what I saw was a free-bag.

I don't mind having something less than modern. Nor do I mind a hard landing. (Can't be any worse than the ragged-out Stratostar I used to own.) But I don't want to get stuck with something that is clearly questionable from an integrity standpoint, and end up having this discussion every 180 days. (Not to mention the risk of a blowout)

I believe you have my stapler.

[livnbored 0]

Well, you've been in the sport for 30 years and have about 300 jumps, and you've only just seen the inside of a container. IMHO you probably shouldn't be putting a rig together so haphazardly. Cheap gear, lack of experience, old gear... seems like a series of bad steps. How much is your life worth?

I mean, not that there's probably anything wrong with this gear, just that no sane rigger will enjoy putting their name on it.

[riggerrob 643]

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Well, the Fury pack volume is 527c.i., and the racer reserve container is 500. Will this be an issue?

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That depends upon how much you HATE your rigger.

Even Nancy LaRiviere (Manager of the Racer factory) curses riggers who try to stuff 1o pounds into a 5 pound Racer, saying that it defeats the original virtue of the Racer design, which was softer and more flexible and more comfortable than its competitors.

Even back in the mid-1990s, I used to avise customers to LIE when ordering Racers, saying that they had a Raven 215 reserve, when they really owned a Raven 181, just to make my job easier packing their reserve.

[Airviking 0]

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Well, the Fury pack volume is 527c.i., and the racer reserve container is 500. Will this be an issue?

....................................................................

That depends upon how much you HATE your rigger.

Even Nancy LaRiviere (Manager of the Racer factory) curses riggers who try to stuff 1o pounds into a 5 pound Racer, saying that it defeats the original virtue of the Racer design, which was softer and more flexible and more comfortable than its competitors.

Even back in the mid-1990s, I used to avise customers to LIE when ordering Racers, saying that they had a Raven 215 reserve, when they really owned a Raven 181, just to make my job easier packing their reserve.

Yeah, I decided to take the Fury out of the picture for that reason.

I believe you have my stapler.

[riggerrob 643]

"

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... Riggers are free to make their own choices. ...

"

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I disagree!
They are only free in one direction: tougher!

To para-phrase the Canadian Air Regulations, technicians can always follow a tougher inspection schedule - than the manufacturer - but they can never follow a looser inspection schedule.

IOW, a DZO can always write an operations manual - saying that his airplanes need longer runways - than the manufacturer's manual - but never shorter runways.

[Airviking 0]

Update: Neither the X210 nor the Fury are going into my rig, because neither fit. The rigger struggled for hours, trying to get the X210 packed and finally said Uncle. This is the reserve that was "in" the Racer when I bought it. Actually, the reserve container was open when I received it.

So I gotta bite the bullet and get a reserve.

I believe you have my stapler.

[skycamefalling 0]

Well since there is a thread started on old reserves, I will use this instead of starting a new one for my question. My reserve is a 96 Raven III and has 4 rides on it (not by me). As long as it is repacked every 180 days, how long would you say I should continue to jump with it in my container? Or should I start to eventually look in to getting a newer reserve?

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[airtwardo 7]

... how long would you say I should continue to jump with it in my container? Or should I start to eventually look in to getting a newer reserve?

I wouldn't say...ask your rigger?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skycamefalling 0]

Yeah I plan on asking him, but will not see him for about a week. So in the meantime, I thought I would ask my fellow jumpers that troll these forums

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[mjosparky 4]

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Well since there is a thread started on old reserves, I will use this instead of starting a new one for my question. My reserve is a 96 Raven III and has 4 rides on it (not by me). As long as it is repacked every 180 days, how long would you say I should continue to jump with it in my container? Or should I start to eventually look in to getting a newer reserve?

Any answer would depend on how much you weigh out the door. The Raven III is 249 sq. ft. and it has a max suspended weight of only 229 lbs. See what your rigger has to say about it. It could go either way depending on if I am drinking Gray Goose or some luke warm cougar piss.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals