councilman24 37 #1 March 2, 2011 Here it is. Hot off the press. Most likely the first civilian (not converted military) rating ever and first lap rating since probably the early 70's (last conversion of military I know of). Yes, I owe beer! Thanks Jerry and Jim!I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #2 March 2, 2011 Quote Here it is. Hot off the press. Most likely the first civilian (not converted military) rating ever and first lap rating since probably the early 70's (last conversion of military I know of). Yes, I owe beer! Thanks Jerry and Jim! Too bad you're way up there, I'd get mine just for S&G!"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 2 #3 March 3, 2011 Well done and congratulations, Terry. You know your story must follow, right? ETA: Am I the only rigger whose pulse just quickened and started salivating like a rabid hound!!!??? "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #4 March 3, 2011 CONGRATS ! post a pictures of a LAP container. tell the story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #5 March 3, 2011 dude that is awesome! made me laugh. and we'd like to here the story. http://www.parachuteshop.com/lap_parachute_rating.htmNa' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #6 March 3, 2011 Quote CONGRATS ! post a pictures of a LAP container. tell the story same same... we want pics, and also want to know where to put hands on the rig now if noone has a rating, how can you have been tested ? ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aliencico 0 #7 March 3, 2011 Dear Sir, My congratulations for your new rating! ...The first Lap Rigger of this new century. All the best Juan Fraile-Nuez Military Parachute Rigger (ret.) Spain, Europe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #8 March 3, 2011 Travis perkins got one three years ago. And he has been saying the same shit. So now you are mostly likely the second civilian to get one.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #9 March 3, 2011 Not according to the FAA. From airman database TRAVIS CONRAD PERKINS Address Street 20701 COMO ST City WILDOMAR State CA County RIVERSIDE Zip Code 92595-8790 Country USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Medical Medical Class: Second Medical Date: 2/2009 •MUST WEAR CORRECTIVE LENSES. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Certificates 2 of 2 1 2 DOI: 8/27/2008 Certificate: SENIOR PARACHUTE RIGGER Rating(s): SENIOR PARACHUTE RIGGER BACK CHEST SEAT Limits SEAL SYMBOL U49. When he proves it I'll stop bragging The folks I had to get permission from in OK city and Washington didn't know about it either. And I only got permission for the inspector to test me because I had a brand new, TSO'd lap rig. Story later. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 2 #10 March 3, 2011 Quote And I only got permission for the inspector to test me because I had a brand new, TSO'd lap rig. The set-up for this story is getting better and better. I hope you're a quick typist!! "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #11 March 3, 2011 Quote Here it is. Hot off the press. Most likely the first civilian (not converted military) rating ever and first lap rating since probably the early 70's (last conversion of military I know of). Yes, I owe beer! Thanks Jerry and Jim! Congratulations! Make sure you update your Rigging Qualifications in your profile. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #12 March 3, 2011 Quote Quote And I only got permission for the inspector to test me because I had a brand new, TSO'd lap rig. The set-up for this story is getting better and better. I hope you're a quick typist!! and that would be more beer scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #13 March 3, 2011 Hi Nic, Quote now if noone has a rating, how can you have been tested ? ? As I have mentioned before on this site, the federal government is sovereign. IMO that means that any FAA employee, should he/she choose, can administer the test & do the necessary paperwork to have the rating awarded. That FAA employee is not req'd to have the rating. That same FAA employee can waive anything that they want to waive, should they be inclined to do so. Sometimes getting an FAA employee to do 'things' is not so easy. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Programmer 0 #14 March 10, 2011 I'm bumping this to encourage pictures and details. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #15 March 10, 2011 Okay, okay. Long version of the story to come. If you had been at the PIA symposium in Reno you would have seen it packed and heard the story.But here is a photo. The straps to the sides of the container are the tie downs. It's was manufactured in Jan 2011 after development by the TSO holder myself and Jim Wine. I packed some under a lap rated rigger, some were approved by the FAA inspector and when I started this thread the inspector had just left after administering the practical and signing off the temporary. A lot more to the story. The long version is in process but will be a couple of pages. Now working on a deviation from the rules to allow me to administer practical tests sooner than 2 years. Washington, OK city and my inspector are supportive, just have to get it written and submitted. More later Long version below:The folks at the PIA symposium saw it packed and heard the story. But… During conversation a manufacturer with a TSO for a pilot rig he said that he could build a lap type parachute under his TSO. That started it. Over about a year’s time we talked about it and then started in on the modifications. He made a prototype and sent it to me for comments and sizing. I have a Strong 26’ lopo in it at the moment. For the symposium it had a brand new one on loan from Strong Ent. Before and after it has one from 1978. I sent in on to another rigger, Jim Wine, for his comments and suggestions. We did this a couple of times before ending up with the final container and harness. Photo attached all packed up. During this development process I went to my FAA Principle Managing Inspector as a new DPRE and said “I’m going to be walking into your office with a brand new, TSO’d lap rig in the near future. How do I get a lap rating?” His name is John and he was really supportive of this effort and the need to figure this out. I kept him updated on the progress of the rig and he kept me updated on his efforts. John does have a rigger certificate but only because of the need of the FSDO to have someone rated. First he looked and determined, as we all knew already, that there were no DPRE’s with the rating. Then he went looking for a FAA inspector with the rating. One in the region told him she had all the ratings but later he figured out that meant to her chest, seat, and back. He finally determined that there were no FAA inspectors with the rating. I think at that point he realized that he would probably need to administer the practical and had permission/authorization/acknowledgement by his regional office that this was the case. Then he started searching the data base for lap rated riggers, especially in this region. He found one that had a DOB of 1898. We figured she probably wasn’t around. He also contacted OK City and Washington and asked if a supervising rigger had to be current. The answer he received from Washington was no. He found a lap rated rigger who got his ratings (military conversion) in 1971 that lived about 2.5 hours from me. In his discussions with the Regional Office/Washington they indicated that even though my photos of my pack job are in the manual, I consulted on the design and I’m a co-author of the manual they wanted me to contact this rigger and ask if he would supervise at least some of the pack jobs. It turns out the guy, his name is Bob, owned his own steel fabrication business and was between contracts. He was willing to have me come up and do some packing with him. We both realized that this didn’t really accomplish much. He actually HAD packed a few lap rigs in the military and when he came out had his military ratings converted to FAA civilian ratings. But, he really hadn’t packed a parachute since then! So I packed the rig some during development and assembly then went up to see Bob. I packed it 8 times one day under his supervision. He had a large shop without any activity at the moment so I set up tables right there and packed it. Bob was great, supportive of my effort and signed off the eight pack jobs. The rest the FAA inspector approved. So I had a lap rig with a TSO label and a manual, a TSO’d canopy in it, twenty pack jobs in my log book (eight signed off by Bob). John (FAA) and I had scheduled the practical for a day or two before I left for Reno but he came down with the flu and had to cancel. Otherwise I would have had the temporary lap rating at the symposium. The day before the symposium started was the DPRE continuing education seminar presented by the FAA from OK City. During that seminar and in clarification from the presenter the next day I realized that there was a requirement for a DPRE to hold as a master rigger the ratings to be on the designation for testing for two years. While this was being verified the Washington FAA was copied. A day later during the symposium I got an email from the Washington FAA manager that dealt with parachutes. He asked if this was a certified emergency parachute (either TSO’d or military contract), when the last one was made, and if you sat on it like an old seat. I responded that yes it was a certified emergency chute, newly manufactured under a current TSO, so the last one hasn’t been made. That it was not a seat parachute but was designed for the lap and the risers were a permanent part of the harness unlike a chest parachute. Also that it was packed face down, head toward the canopy while a chest was packed face up, feet toward the canopy. My reply also included that the potential market for this was the light sport aircraft, particularly those with side stick controls. The next day I received an email from this gentleman that he was glad it was TSO’d, a new product and that light sport aviation needed it. And that OK City would work with me on the exemption to the two year requirement for it to be added to my DPRE designation. So, last week John made it down, I packed the lap and received my lap rating temporary. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #16 March 11, 2011 Got any plans on making more of these and some sort of plan on getting other people rated?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #17 March 11, 2011 Two more rigs should exist in the near future. One on the west coast and one on the east coast. I'm in Michigan. As soon as I get lap added to my DPRE designation letter those two riggers will get tested. Then the three of us can supervise pack jobs. I'll be able to test. Other DPRE's are planning on getting the rating but they may or may not have a rig to use. I've got a spare room. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #18 March 11, 2011 Awesome! I can imagine these riggers will be busy with people getting the novelty rating... 'just cause' Don't worry, I'll be in line too. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #19 March 11, 2011 Awesome story!!! I guess nobody has jumped it yet???"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #20 March 11, 2011 Keep us updated on your progress for the DPRE on this since you are only a few hours away from me Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #21 March 11, 2011 What exactly defines it as a Lap Rig? Is there some where a deffinition of the diffrent rateings based on the orentation of the container during the pack job? Also it may turn out to be more then just a cureosity. I had a guy that was trying to get me to set him up a harness and chest rig for his powered parachute (trike). None of the back or seat parachutes were very comfertable in the seat. A lot of kit planes are real tight in the cocpit. Many people just can't wear a parachute in one. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #22 March 13, 2011 A LAP rig is similar to a chest type, with two exceptions. First, the parachute container lays on your lap. Secondly, lap risers are sewn onto the harness. Since it is impossible (for a competent rigger) to accidentally forget to attach a riser - on a lap rig - it is okay to install a square reserve in a lap rig. Even John LeBlanc (Performance Designs) suggested installing a PD218 reserve in a lap rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #23 March 13, 2011 This is as close as I have been to one. Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Lapparachute.jpgMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #24 May 20, 2011 Online search database updated!Waiting on my card. BTW I now own an original photographic print (not photocopy) of Leslie Irwin wearing his lap parachute. See attached. Also photo of his training rig (two parachutes) and three photos of his seat. Lap is lower right and is label as such on the back. TERRY RAY URBAN Address Street 211 CHERRYVIEW DR City PORTAGE State MI County KALAMAZOO Zip Code 49024-6891 Country USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Medical Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 3/1991 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Certificates 2 of 2 1 2 DOI: 3/2/2011 Certificate: MASTER PARACHUTE RIGGER Rating(s): MASTER PARACHUTE RIGGER BACK CHEST LAP SEAT Limits SEAL SYMBOL MDW. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #25 May 20, 2011 Hi Terry, Re: Online search database updated! Who says you can't beat city hall. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
