jerolim 7 #1 March 21, 2011 I am repacking all reserves in my club for jumping season. And I have noticed on one of student rigs - reserve pin is slightly bent. Is this ok, or it needs to be replaced. Rig is 4 years old Aerodyone Icon student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #2 March 21, 2011 Check these six threads on the same topic: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=bent+pin+-Re%3A&search_type=AND&search_fields=s&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=score&mh=6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 145 #3 March 21, 2011 An interesting question that I'd like to hear the answer to, to help me understand what I should be looking for when i check my gear. It's hard to tell for sure, but the "smooth straight" portion does seem to have an ever so slight curvature to it (but not very much), but most of the "bentness" occurs at the point where this segment meets the thicker portion where it connects to the cable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #4 March 21, 2011 I'm not a rigger, but it occurs to me that any bending could weaken the pin. You REALLY don't want a pin to break when you pull the reserve ripcord, leaving the container closed in an emergency. IMO anything which is causes doubt when it comes to the reserve should be addressed. If that means a new ripcord assembly, so be it. I would like to hear from riggers on this."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #5 March 21, 2011 Im no rigger, but if that was my rig I would get it changed for certain. Why risk it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #6 March 21, 2011 Pin is from 2006, there was a SB for pins from 2003. Does this means that there is more problematic pins. Any way I will do TEST 1 from SB, and I'll inform you if pin will bend on 15 lb or more. Regardles of result - I am replacing it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #7 March 21, 2011 Is it the pin or the swaged area (larger dia) where it is bent? QuotePin is from 2006, there was a SB for pins from 2003. Does this means that there is more problematic pins The problem with ripcord pins is more than what that SB addressed. They are just generally not very strong, even those that meet the test std are not able to withstand what they should, in my opinion. You are somewhat likely to replace it with an equally 'not strong enough' ripcord. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't replace it, but don't think you're actually sure to be preventing it from happening again.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #8 March 21, 2011 Swaged area is bent. Check image that I have attached in first post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #9 March 21, 2011 If that were mine I'd probably just straighten it, I don't think there's a "rule" one way or another. If I was a rigger I might be more conservative on other people's gear. Judging by the pic I'd be a lot more concerned about that frayed looking reserve closing loop.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #10 March 21, 2011 QuoteSwaged area is bent. Check image that I have attached in first post. Thanks for clarifying that. It wasn't clear from the pic or your description if the pin was also bent. If it was only the swaged area, I'd keep it as long as there weren't any cracks. I would think that area is supposed to be relatively ductile, perhaps others can confirm that conclusion. As a mechanical design engineer, it really pisses me off that the std pins are so weak. We deserve better.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #11 March 21, 2011 Quote As a mechanical design engineer, it really pisses me off that the std pins are so weak. We deserve better. Get a V3 "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 March 21, 2011 Pin come in basically 2 versions. Intermediate pins and terminal pins. The intermediate pin can look bent but is build with a bend in it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/53825637@N06/5547810073/ The terminal pins are straight and symmetrical. http://www.flickr.com/photos/53825637@N06/5548393162/ It sounds like you are not a rigger so you may want to have one look it over. If it is bent good catch on your part. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #13 March 21, 2011 About 5 years ago Mirage rigs had a bad badge of reserve pins that bend under regular use the had a mandatory check on all their rigs lifting the rig from the pin see if the pin bend, that much bend on a reserve pin is un acceptable and should be changed manufacture should be notified too. A reserve pin bend add pounds to the cut away process.http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,432 #14 March 21, 2011 Hi Sparky, Nancy L of the Jump Shack & Suzie B of JCO Metals gave a seminar at PIA Reno in Feb on Ripcord Pins. Nancy was very strong in recommending that only intermediate pins should be used in all cases. She said that with a terminal pin you cannot tell if the cable has moved whereas with an intermediate pin you can. Just in case you might be interested . . . JerryBaumchen PS) I agree with her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sprtdth 0 #15 March 22, 2011 Quote Nancy was very strong in recommending that only intermediate pins should be used in all cases. She said that with a terminal pin you cannot tell if the cable has moved whereas with an intermediate pin you can. Hi Jerry, I was talking to Nancy about that also. She pointed out the same thing about the balls with the shank, you can't see cable movement. P.S. I agree with her on both pointsCRW Skies Frank CRW Diva #58 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 March 22, 2011 Quote Hi Sparky, Nancy L of the Jump Shack & Suzie B of JCO Metals gave a seminar at PIA Reno in Feb on Ripcord Pins. Nancy was very strong in recommending that only intermediate pins should be used in all cases. She said that with a terminal pin you cannot tell if the cable has moved whereas with an intermediate pin you can. Just in case you might be interested . . . JerryBaumchen PS) I agree with her. I was aware of that Jerry. I am sort of on the fence on this one. If each ripcord is proof tested to the requirements of AS-8015B Section 4.3.1 and 4.3.2.4 I think they would hold up. I am not sure how many of the manufactures really do testing on all of their ripcords. I have not tried this but I think that if the cable moves at all in any pin you would be able to see it where the cable enters the pin. What do you think? Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/intermediate2.jpg http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/Terminalpin2.jpgMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #17 March 22, 2011 No, I am not a rigger, but in my country skydiving instructor is allowed to pack reserves. I pack about 20 reserves every year. This one is on student rig, that had a cutaway 2 years ago. Original reserve handle was lost, and we ordered 2 replacement handles from aerodyne. Replacement handle was used for last 2 years, but students sometimes roll on landing. I think this is how it got bent. Aerodyne told me that this can be straitened by laying it on a plastic board and tapping firmly with a plastic faced hammer. I plan to do that and to do TEST 1 for pins from 2003 CW03-01. If any distortion is noticed I would say pin is not airworthy. I have another replacement handle but it could have same quality, as this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #18 March 22, 2011 QuoteIf that were mine I'd probably just straighten it, I don't think there's a "rule" one way or another. If I was a rigger I might be more conservative on other people's gear. Judging by the pic I'd be a lot more concerned about that frayed looking reserve closing loop. Actually reserve closing loop is brand new, it looks bad on picture below pin, because there is a half twist in it, so it looks thinner on this picture. Check picture from the top. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #19 March 22, 2011 QuoteNancy was very strong in recommending that only intermediate pins should be used in all cases. She said that with a terminal pin you cannot tell if the cable has moved whereas with an intermediate pin you can. Hmmm... On metal rapide links which connect lines to risers, we put a small line of red nail polish or paint along the nut and the link. That way if the nut starts to unthread itself, it's readily visible because the paint marks will no longer be aligned. I'm thinking it might be possible to do the same thing with paint on a ripcord pin and cable, so that any slippage would be noticed. Is this a viable idea? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #20 March 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteNancy was very strong in recommending that only intermediate pins should be used in all cases. She said that with a terminal pin you cannot tell if the cable has moved whereas with an intermediate pin you can. Hmmm... On metal rapide links which connect lines to risers, we put a small line of red nail polish or paint along the nut and the link. That way if the nut starts to unthread itself, it's readily visible because the paint marks will no longer be aligned. I'm thinking it might be possible to do the same thing with paint on a ripcord pin and cable, so that any slippage would be noticed. Is this a viable idea? If the telltale on a rapide link is damaged, you can easily check it and remark as needed. What would happen if the mark on the ripcord was physically damaged by something other than cable slippage? Would you toss the ripcord? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #21 March 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteNancy was very strong in recommending that only intermediate pins should be used in all cases. She said that with a terminal pin you cannot tell if the cable has moved whereas with an intermediate pin you can. Hmmm... On metal rapide links which connect lines to risers, we put a small line of red nail polish or paint along the nut and the link. That way if the nut starts to unthread itself, it's readily visible because the paint marks will no longer be aligned. I'm thinking it might be possible to do the same thing with paint on a ripcord pin and cable, so that any slippage would be noticed. Is this a viable idea? If the telltale on a rapide link is damaged, you can easily check it and remark as needed. What would happen if the mark on the ripcord was physically damaged by something other than cable slippage? Would you toss the ripcord? On the other hand, I don't like to take shots at your idea without offering an alternative for consideration. So, how about this? Put a the cable through a swageable ball before putting it in the pin. Swage the pin. Push the ball so it touched the pin and swage the ball. Since the ball has no stress on it, it is unlikely to move. So if you get a gap between the ball and the pin, the cable has moved, and you reject the ripcord. That would get the job done once and for all, wouldn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 March 22, 2011 QuoteWhat would happen if the mark on the ripcord was physically damaged by something other than cable slippage? Would you toss the ripcord? I think it would warrant further testing. Maybe put the pin in a padded vise, and pull on the cable with the handle on the other end, measuring the pull force with a scale. If I reach a number on pull force that is way above anything anticipated for a real-life pull, then I would rest assured that the cable/pin connection is solid. I'm not a rigger, just a guy who has been around a while and seen a lot of stuff. I like marking things to keep them straight. I mark my risers and the corners of my slider to help ensure I don't pack incorrectly. I mark minor line damage with red ink so that I'll know I've noticed it before, and that it's not new damage. I mark rapid link nuts to notice if they're unthreading. This kind of stuff just seems like a simple idea to keep up with potential problems with your gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #23 March 23, 2011 Regarding the picture you posted, I think the end of the closing pin should go under the piece of Type III tape. Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/untitled.jpgMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #24 March 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNancy was very strong in recommending that only intermediate pins should be used in all cases. She said that with a terminal pin you cannot tell if the cable has moved whereas with an intermediate pin you can. Hmmm... On metal rapide links which connect lines to risers, we put a small line of red nail polish or paint along the nut and the link. That way if the nut starts to unthread itself, it's readily visible because the paint marks will no longer be aligned. I'm thinking it might be possible to do the same thing with paint on a ripcord pin and cable, so that any slippage would be noticed. Is this a viable idea? If the telltale on a rapide link is damaged, you can easily check it and remark as needed. What would happen if the mark on the ripcord was physically damaged by something other than cable slippage? Would you toss the ripcord? On the other hand, I don't like to take shots at your idea without offering an alternative for consideration. So, how about this? Put a the cable through a swageable ball before putting it in the pin. Swage the pin. Push the ball so it touched the pin and swage the ball. Since the ball has no stress on it, it is unlikely to move. So if you get a gap between the ball and the pin, the cable has moved, and you reject the ripcord. That would get the job done once and for all, wouldn't it? This couldn’t be done in the field. It would require a action by the manufacture due to the TSO. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #25 March 23, 2011 QuoteQuote On the other hand, I don't like to take shots at your idea without offering an alternative for consideration. So, how about this? Put a the cable through a swageable ball before putting it in the pin. Swage the pin. Push the ball so it touched the pin and swage the ball. Since the ball has no stress on it, it is unlikely to move. So if you get a gap between the ball and the pin, the cable has moved, and you reject the ripcord. That would get the job done once and for all, wouldn't it? This couldn’t be done in the field. It would require a action by the manufacture due to the TSO. Sparky Agreed, but I didn't think anybody ever said that the solution to the problem had to be accomplished "in the field" without larger support. The problem is terminal pins and how to know when they are coming off the cable. Nancy's suggestion that we always use intermediate pins also involves the manufacturer and the TSO as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
