Bowling For Columbine

[PeteH 0]

One of the best movies I've seen, but it didn't affect my views on trigger happy americans.

This was the best part:

Michael Moore: Now wait a minute... The Constitution says you've got the right to bear arms. What do you think 'arms' means?
John Nichols: Well it's not like these...
[waves his arms]
John Nichols: It means we ought to have handguns if we want to.
Michael Moore: What about nuclear weapons? Should you be able to have weapons-grade plutonium?
John Nichols: [pauses] ... Well I think that oughta be restricted. There are a lotta whackos out there.

[vonSanta 0]

Yeash, it is my GOD GIVEN RIGHT to carry nuclear hand grenades.

If you outlaw them, only outlaws will have them! And we KNOW that outlaws don't care about the law, so it won't work on them anyway.

Oooh a Splat-O-Matic Gargutian Meglatroplic DisMangleTroid Chemical Joy Joy gun! I want!

And no way the US government can forbid me, coz the constitution said nuthin' about me not being allowed to have one.

Michale Moore is entertaining and at times funny. I haven't considered any of his shows/film documentaries - they're "poking fun/embarrasing" at various groups, that's all.

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[goose491 0]

Quote

Good points I'd say...
I've found a site that backs up your side pretty well.

That site is a croc! lol, you can't debunk someones arguments by picking apart his/her editing. "Oh, he put two ads together! That wasn't just one add!".... hehe. Was Willie Horton not realeased to commit more crime? "Oh! It says 'Willie Horton released. Then kills again.' when in actuality, all he did was assault and rape!"... Is that an argument against Bowling for Columbine? Really? Makes me laugh.

They take another shot at Moore saying that he's stupid for thinking the NRA went to Columbine intentionally after the shootings when in fact, it was planned ahead of time. Well, for those of you who haven't seen the documentary. That is what is suggested, but only until it is actually brought up (by Heston) that the trip was pre-planned. I'm pretty sure Moore knew that... his point, and he makes it perfectly clear when meeting with Mr. Heston, is that it's pretty DAMN insensitive to hold an NRA rally a stones throw away from and only days after some kids shot up their school! Regardless of whether or not it was already planned by the NRA and especially when the family and friends of the victims pleaded with them not to come.

Quote

I still think it's a wonderful movie, but I'm a lot more skeptical of it's 'truths' now. Thanks man.

Well, don't be skeptical of the ones that matter. i.e. the eleven thousand plus that die to guns in the US every year. The fact that the black man is not properly represented in the American media. The fact that the US has given arms and money to known terrorists, flip flopped from one side of a battle to another to suit their own agenda. The welfare program -hehe remember that part? What a poor woman- that takes you off welfare and makes you work a job that you will never be able to quit and that will never give you enough to pay your way out of the program (has slavery really been abolished?) The fact that the NRA and KKK came about at the same time... for similar reasons.

I could go on... now tell me... Did Micheal Moore make those things up?
Granted, he's done a little 'creative editing'... but has he twisted the truth.... or simply begun untwisting it?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

I could go on... now tell me... Did Micheal Moore make those things up?
Granted, he's done a little 'creative editing'... but has he twisted the truth....

No more than the average everyday democrat, I mean media, oops.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[goose491 0]

hehehe I see.


I'll re-phrase my question.

Did those things not happen?
Do those things not happen?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[cybercom 0]

Good movie

it is insane the difference between two culture which is not very far
one from the other

[meltdown 0]

***
>This is by no means a documentary or even "fiction", just a waste of time.

And so you saw it several times? Interesting.
_____________________________________________

HAHAHAHA
BTW, I can't stand Michael Moore, but that's damn funny.

[sssbc99 0]

Quote

Name a few misrepresented facts and lies.

I'm not arguing here, I really don't know. I just watched it today, so I haven't had the chance to dig into it too much.

(I'm a Republican...so you don't have to give me the agenda).

-Kramer

One that hasn't been mentioned is the part where he goes to Florence and Normandie in Los Angeles. He tries to say how everyone should not be scared of these neighborhoods and that shows like Cops misrepresent these people.

I think that is bullshit. First off, he was there during the day. Second, this neighborhood is probably not dangerous to go and sit on a commercial corner in the middle of the day. I would love to see him take a stroll through certain parts of Harlem. Sometimes he goes about proving a point the wrong way.

Disclaimer: Do not take any of this as racist, I just saw something that was greatly misrepresented. I like Micheal Moore because he doesn't care what the rich and famous think and he is not worried about offending people but to call this a documentary is offensive.

[meltdown 0]

A little bit off the subject, but does anybody remember reading news stories a few months ago about how Moore went off verbally on an audience, I think in London or somewhere, at a one man stage show he was doing? If I remember right, he was complaining that he wasn't paid enough, or that the food backstage sucked or some other thing you would expect to see in Spinal Tap. If anyone has any links on this, I'd be interested in checking it out.

[storm1977 0]

Quote

Well, don't be skeptical of the ones that matter. i.e. the eleven thousand plus that die to guns in the US every year.

What about the 14,000 that die from the FLU every year?

42,000 people died driving in the 2000 in the USA. Maybe we should get rid of cars too.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

42,000 people died driving in the 2000 in the USA. Maybe we should get rid of cars too.

Chris

SHHHHH! They'll try!!!!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

...it's pretty DAMN insensitive to hold an NRA rally a stones throw away from and only days after some kids shot up their school!

That annual meeting had been planned at that location for a year prior to the shooting. It was too late to change it.

And they shouldn't have changed it. The NRA was not responsible for the shooting. It's like asking travel agents to shut down their offices for the day every time an airplane crashes and kills travelers.

It was just a political ploy by the anti-gun people to try and draw a connection between the NRA and gun violence.

[goose491 0]

Quote

Quote

Well, don't be skeptical of the ones that matter. i.e. the eleven thousand plus that die to guns in the US every year.

What about the 14,000 that die from the FLU every year?

42,000 people died driving in the 2000 in the USA. Maybe we should get rid of cars too.

Chris

WTF? Have you seen the movie were discussing here? lol

Car accident deaths = Accidents (sad yes)
Flu deaths = Too bad, so sad (trajic, but that's disease for ya)

Gun deaths = murder

Apples and Oranges friend. If you want to compare Apples to Apples for a moment... that number is in comparison to a bunch of other seemably 'similar' countries... whos annual gun death number fall illogically lower.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[billvon 2,991]

>42,000 people died driving in the 2000 in the USA. Maybe we
>should get rid of cars too.

No, we should just require driver's licenses, registration, safety devices (like seatbelts) insurance and have laws against driving drunk, driving offroad etc. And many of those laws have been successful! Laws requiring manufacturers to install seatbelts and that require parents to use carseats have significantly reduced traffic deaths.

Do you really want to claim guns are like cars? Really want to fail your gun test and be denied ownership? This falls under the "be careful what you ask for" category.

[storm1977 0]

Quote

Do you really want to claim guns are like cars? Really want to fail your gun test and be denied ownership? This falls under the "be careful what you ask for" category

YES

I own a gun, and guess what. To get a hunting license you need to pass a proficiency test.

I think that you should have to take a test, or at the very least be competent to use it. That to me makes sense. If they can enforce an age limit on gun ownership, they can certainly enforce safety classes on ownership.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[turtlespeed 220]

And of course there's NEVER been anyone intentionally hit with a car, right?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mnischalke 0]

Quote

I'm pretty sure Moore knew that... his point, and he makes it perfectly clear when meeting with Mr. Heston, is that it's pretty DAMN insensitive to hold an NRA rally a stones throw away from and only days after some kids shot up their school!

Why? What did the NRA have to do with two sick individuals who illegally acquired firearms and built bombs to kill their classmates?

Quote

Regardless of whether or not it was already planned by the NRA and especially when the family and friends of the victims pleaded with them not to come.

Who?

Fyi, here's the "TESTIMONY OF DARRELL SCOTT FATHER OF TWO VICTIMS OF COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING LITTLETON, COLORADO BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES"

Quote

Since the dawn of creation there has been both good and evil
in the heart of men and of women. We all contain the seeds
of kindness or the seeds of violence.

The death of my wonderful daughter Rachel Joy Scott, and the
deaths of that heroic teacher and the other children who died
must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother
Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.
Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true
killer was Cain and the reason for the murder could only be found
in Cain's heart.

In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at
how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA.

I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own
a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I
don't believe that they are responsible for my daughters death.
Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I
believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be
their strongest opponent.

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -
it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at
where the real blame lies!

Much of that blame lies here in this room. Much of that blame lies
behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves..

I wrote a poem just four nights ago that express my feelings best.
This was written way before I knew l would be speaking here
today.

Your laws ignore our deepest needs
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage.
You've outlawed simple prayer.

Now gunshots fill our classrooms.
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere.
And ask the question "WHY"?

You regulate restrictive laws.
Through legislative creed.
Add yet you fail to understand.
That God is what we need!

Men and women are three part beings. We all consist of body, soul,
and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our
makeup, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred
to rush in and wreak havoc.

Spiritual influences were present within our educational Systems
for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began
as theological seminaries. This is a historic fact.

What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God
and in doing so, we open the doors to hatred and violence.

And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs,
politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA.
They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that
continue to erode away our personal and private liberties.

We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not
have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can
stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre.

The real villain lies within our OWN hearts. Political posturing
and restrictive legislation is not the answers.

The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual
awakening taking place that will not be squelched!

We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy Television
evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need
more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic
needs are being ignored.

We do need a change of heart and an humble acknowledgment that
this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God.

As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw
his two friends murdered before his very eyes. He did not
hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny
him that right!

I challenge every young person in America and around the world to
realize that on April 20, 1999 at Columbine High School - - prayer
was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers
offered by those students be in vain.

Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for
legislation that violates your conscience and denies your
God-given right to communicate with Him.

To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA - I give
to you sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before
you cast the first stone!

My daughter's death will not be in vain. The young people of this
country will not allow that to happen.

Quote

The fact that the NRA and KKK came about at the same time... for similar reasons.

It's now obvious to me you know nothing about what you're talking about. Admittedly, I don't know much about the KKK, but I assume it was not created in 1871 by two former Union soldiers, Lt. Col. William Church and Capt. George Wingate, in order to support the national defense by bettering the appalling rifle marksmanship skills displayed during the Civil War. Furthermore, I would also assume it to be against the interest of the KKK for the NRA to be the major player with the NAACP in the overthrow of the "Black Codes" which prevented former slaves, their descendants and other blacks from owning firearms.

Or, you can believe every slanderous accusation Michael "Less" conjures up.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[storm1977 0]

Hey goose...

While we are at it, we will ban:

Knives
Axes
Bows
Chipper Shreaders
Lawn Movers
Ropes (strangling)
Any type of Saw
Baseball bats
Golf Clubs
Hammers
Rocks
Tall objects
Steel toed boots
Hands and fists

and anything else that has been used as a murder weapon.

Don't be stupid...

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[goose491 0]

Quote

Quote

...it's pretty DAMN insensitive to hold an NRA rally a stones throw away from and only days after some kids shot up their school!

That annual meeting had been planned at that location for a year prior to the shooting. It was too late to change it.

And they shouldn't have changed it. The NRA was not responsible for the shooting.

I'm aware that the rally was planned beforehand... SO DID MICHEAL MOORE! Did you even read my post!?!? Do you not think that was insensitive? Nobody said the NRA should not have been allowed to hold the rally, they have freedom of speech... they have every right to have a rally wherever they want to.

Nobody said they were responsible for the shooting (well, their effect on peoples view of guns could be discussed forever)....

But you know every bit as well as I that any decent person would reconsider having it then and there.

Quote

It's like asking travel agents to shut down their offices for the day every time an airplane crashes and kills travelers

Nope, more like pulling the airlines adds off the TV and Radio right after a crash... which BTW, they do.

Quote

It was just a political ploy by the anti-gun people to try and draw a connection between the NRA and gun violence.

haha, 'cause we know there ain't no connection there eh? KKK, NRA? I know now, that you did not read my post.

Quote

READ MY POST!

I did read it! And I would propose that you read mine before replying to ONE SENTENCE out of it.... with the Sentence I had preceding it anyway!

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

Hey goose...

While we are at it, we will ban:

Knives
Axes
Bows
Chipper Shreaders
Lawn Movers
Ropes (strangling)
Any type of Saw
Baseball bats
Golf Clubs
Hammers
Rocks
Tall objects
Steel toed boots
Hands and fists
Scissors
Knitting Needles
Speakers
Stereo Headphones
Liquid Plumber
Clorox Bleach
Batery Acid
Alchohol
Gasoline
Fireworks
Parachutes
Electricity
Fire
Refrigerators and freezers




and anything else that has been used as a murder weapon.

Don't be stupid...

added some things to the list.
I'll think of some more in a minute.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[goose491 0]

Quote

Hey goose...

While we are at it, we will ban:

Knives
Axes
Bows
Chipper Shreaders
Lawn Movers
Ropes (strangling)
Any type of Saw
Baseball bats
Golf Clubs
Hammers
Rocks
Tall objects
Steel toed boots
Hands and fists

and anything else that has been used as a murder weapon.

I looked back at my posts... would you do me a favour and point out where I might have said anything remotely close to "We should ban guns?"

'Cause I couldn't.

In fact, I'm not all about banning guns... we have guns here in Canada too.... We just don't shoot eachother nearly as much as you guys do.

Quote

Don't be stupid...

Think before you speak/type

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[rugburn 0]

So what do you suggest we do about guns? Regulate the shit out of them like in Washington D.C. where the murder rate is the highest in the country. Gun control only prevents law abiding citizens from purchasing guns for their own self defense. The criminals who use it for, well, criminal activity dont follow the law. Thats why they call them outlaws. I wonder what the statistics are on how many times guns are used each year for self defense. I have heard upwards of 2 million instances per year. So when there is an intruder in your home and you kill him with a shotgun, is that reflected in the 10,000 muder/year statsitics? I think not. What if you just bransdish the firearm and he gets the hell out of there. Im sure this happens more than we know. Did the thought ever occur to anyone that guns might just save a few lives (let the shit come).

I have to disagree with the previous post. Since when was a saw used to kill someone? I thought they were just there to dispose of the body.

--------
I am ready to meet my maker. Whether my maker is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
- Winston Churchill

[goose491 0]

Quote

added some things to the list.
I'll think of some more in a minute.

Oh great! Thanks for hopping on board! Perhaps You'd like to show me where I said anything about banning guns?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[rugburn 0]

[reply Oh great! Thanks for hopping on board! Perhaps You'd like to show me where I said anything about banning guns?

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

But this still goes to show how Michael Moore SUCKS

Last night I watched his greatest movie ever... Canadian Bacon. Friggin hillarious. He even has a cameo!

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.