Bowling For Columbine

[JohnRich 4]

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From these figures, can I conclude that the lax gun laws in the US are the prime reason for high murder rates? No, that would be rediculous.

Correct!

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please stop using the UK as a shining example of how gun laws don't work because the only thing it tells anyone is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Then how come gun crime has gone up in the UK every year since they confiscated all the handguns and semi-auto long guns?

That would sure seem to indicate that gun confiscation isn't effective at stopping criminals.

[AndyMan 7]

I can not believe this thread is still going on.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[goose491 0]

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I can not believe this thread is still going on.

_Am

It seems to be looping... has anyone noticed this?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[JackC 0]

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Then how come gun crime has gone up in the UK every year since they confiscated all the handguns and semi-auto long guns?

That would sure seem to indicate that gun confiscation isn't effective at stopping criminals.

For christs sake. The ban wasn't effective. How could it have been? Even when they were legal, guns were like rocking horse shit. Taking away the guns that no one had isn't going to make a blind bit of difference now is it?

It's like confiscating all the trees from Iceland. There are no fucking trees in iceland anyway so who gives a flying fuck of a razzoo if somebody confiscates all those pesky non-existant trees?

That's why using the UK as an example is pointless. So pretty please, with sugar on top, find another dead horse to flog so I can go back to ignoring this stoopid thread.

[caress 0]

I think this is dangerously close to the thread that was deleted earlier this month because we are at the same crossroad. However since it is evident that we are going to pursue this end to its final stupididty, I would like to say that gun laws will never work as long as corruption exists, in the legal system, and in the enforcement system. That is a fact! For those who think for one minute that for the love of money or power, they will not compromise their ethics, you are sadly living in a dream world. That is why gun laws in any country will never work.EVER! God you people scare me, but there I said what I had to say.
I hope you are safer in the air than you are on the ground.-caress

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[captainpooby 0]

Man the Bucs are stinking like horse poop this year! Thought we'ed have a good team with Gruden after winning the Super Bowl last year.
Who knew?

[n2skdvn 0]

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It seems to be looping... has anyone noticed this?

look back a page

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[JohnRich 4]

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gun laws will never work as long as corruption exists, in the legal system, and in the enforcement system.

Would you elaborate please? What kind of corruption prevents gun laws from working to reduce gun crime?

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God you people scare me

To which people are you referring?

[JohnRich 4]

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The ban wasn't effective. How could it have been? Even when they were legal, guns were like rocking horse shit. Taking away the guns that no one had isn't going to make a blind bit of difference now is it?

So you agree that the gun confiscation was useless, and that honest citizens were deprived of their property under a misguided scheme?

In the latest one-month gun turn-in amnesty, British police collected 43,000 illegal firearms, according to the Home Office. That's a lot of guns for a place that isn't supposed to have them any more.

Elsewhere, I see this:

"The number of crimes involving firearms increased by just under 3% in the 12 months to March 2003... It was well below the 35% rise in the previous year... Violent crime - excluding robberies and sex attacks - increased by 12% between April and June this year..."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3195908.stm

A 38% increase in just two years!

Here's a quote from your previously referenced source which supports what I'm saying here (emphasis is mine):

"...the Firearm (Amendment) Act of 1997 which resulted in the removal of in excess of 160,000 handguns from individuals who had held them legally. The long-term impact that the 1997 legislation is likely to have on the use of handguns in crime cannot be judged with any accuracy at this time but the short-term impact strongly suggests that there is no direct link between the unlawful use of handguns and their lawful ownership."

How come you're not willing to put your name in your profile, and behind your statements?

[FliegendeWolf 0]

I think it's time to move on.

NSFW

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[goose491 0]

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It seems to be looping... has anyone noticed this?

look back a page

I know I was repeating lol

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

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So you agree that the gun confiscation was useless, and that honest citizens were deprived of their property under a misguided scheme?

In the latest one-month gun turn-in amnesty, British police collected 43,000 illegal firearms, according to the Home Office. That's a lot of guns for a place that isn't supposed to have them any more.

John, have you even seen Bowling for Columbine? Just curious.
'Cause the movie is about violence and oppression in America.

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...A 38% increase in just two years!

Here's a quote from your previously referenced source which supports what I'm saying here (emphasis is mine):

"...the Firearm (Amendment) Act of 1997 which resulted in the removal of in excess of 160,000 handguns from individuals who had held them legally. The long-term impact that the 1997 legislation is likely to have on the use of handguns in crime cannot be judged with any accuracy at this time but the short-term impact strongly suggests that there is no direct link between the unlawful use of handguns and their lawful ownership."

Are you trying to tell us that the crime rate in the UK went up BECAUSE guns were taken away from the people? Or merely putting 2 and 1 together to form 4? The above actually says that the best they can figure is that there is no direct link.

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How come you're not willing to put your name in your profile, and behind your statements?

IMHO, that has nothing to do with anything.


So anyway, if it seems like I'm picking on you, it's because I think you are the reason this thread is 'looping'. A great number of people have already agreed that guns themselves are not to blame. That it's quite daft to place any sort of blame on an inanimate object. Yet you persist in defending them. Will you accept that The movie we are supposed to be discussing is about American social issues so that we can start discussing American social issues?

Otherwise, I'm affraid this thread is dead.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[caress 0]

PEOPLE PAY OFF OTHERS TO LET THEM GET AWAY WITH SHIT!! Happens everyday. You know it and so do I. The leadership in this country and others I'm sure is so crooked. WAKE UP!

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[n2skdvn 0]

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By the way, since we're talking about Bowling for Columbine, who's seen it

I've seen it twice still think it's a manipulation of words. and yes i have reasearched the sources(no it wasent the site against michael moore).

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[goose491 0]

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I think it's time to move on.

NSFW

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[FliegendeWolf 0]

My bad, will contact a greenie stat.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[JohnRich 4]

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PEOPLE PAY OFF OTHERS TO LET THEM GET AWAY WITH SHIT!!

I'm still not clear on what kind of corruption you are talking about. Are you saying that criminals bribe police officers to let them go? Are you saying that criminals bribe judges to declare them innocent? And you're saying that these things happen with great frequency?

[mountainman 0]

I saw it about a month ago. I definetely don't think it was one of the best, but it got you to think.

I liked watching him take the people with bullet wound scars and back injuries into the Kmart headquarters. That took some guts for all of them.

http://www.brandonandlaura.com

[Kennedy 0]

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I liked watching him take the people with bullet wound scars and back injuries into the Kmart headquarters. That took some guts for all of them.

Why? Did their wounds come from cartridges purchased at K-Mart? What exactly took guts?

To others in the thread, is that not blaming both inanimate objects and the people who sell them?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mountainman 0]

Yeah... they said that Kmart sold the bullets that killed the dead and injured them.

I am 100% with you that it was wrong. However, just seeing the guts of them taking on big business like that was enjoyable.

(Hey, I had to find something in that movie. Most of it sucked, IMHO.)

http://www.brandonandlaura.com

[JohnRich 4]

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I liked watching him take the people with bullet wound scars and back injuries into the Kmart headquarters.

Why did you like that? K-Mart isn't responsible for shooting people with guns. Every gun sale made by K-Mart has the personal approval of the FBI! If those guns are subsequently used in crime somehow, that's not K-Mart's fault.

Should General Motors and Ford stop selling cars, because some of their vehicles end up being used by criminals in high speed car chases?

Should K-Mart also stop selling bicycles so that kid's won't get hurt on their retail products? What about kitchen knives? Car tires? Gosh, the list could go on and on. If we adopted Michael Moore's implied strategy of stopping the sale of any product that could cause someone to be hurt, then the stores would all be nearly empty.

[Kennedy 0]

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I am 100% with you that it was wrong. However, just seeing the guts of them taking on big business like that was enjoyable.

To me, that thought gives business more power, acting like they are untouchable. I've gone to bat against "them" and won.

I have to say his tactics are imaginative, but his honesty leaves much to be desired. Tactic: sound. Strategy: WTF?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[goose491 0]

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I liked watching him take the people with bullet wound scars and back injuries into the Kmart headquarters. That took some guts for all of them.

Why? Did their wounds come from cartridges purchased at K-Mart? What exactly took guts?

To others in the thread, is that not blaming both inanimate objects and the people who sell them?

Yeah, the bullets came from K-Mart. It was a small 'victory' for those kids to have that particular round removed from the department stores shelves. Is it blaming inanimate objects? Don't know, sounds more like blaming k-mart for making said bullets so readily available. I don't know about in the states but a long time ago, you could buy cigarettes in any drugstore... now you can't. I guess it's bad taste. It's sorta like that.

Does Moore think the shooting would have been avoided if K-mart didn't stock the rounds to begin with? I don't think him that simple. Think about the first scenes... the Lockheed Martin plant... Does Micheal Moore truly blame the plant for the shooting? No.. but he does kinda doesn't he? Shock value my friend.

I think of the issues this movie presents and I think of the holocaust... That is, I think of a day in history class when the teacher told us about segregation of duties. You could think of all the people it took to make the holocaust take place (a great number) and wonder: "How can so many people follow and obey Hitler and actually partake in a Genocide attempt?" The answer is segregation of duties. It's easier for you to do your job if your job is just to pull the gas lever... it's someone elses job just to heard everyone into the 'shower' before you pull that lever and it's someone elses job just to shovel the bodies out after you've pulled the lever. You are no longer the guilty party 'cause all you do is pull a lever. A very drastic comparison I know but a valid one as K-mart just stocks and sells the bullets. Lockheed Martin makes big weapons... Not at that particular plant but to state that they don't is just uneducated. I think Moore points to a number of accumulated factors for the shooting. The most frustrating part is that it is well known that there is no single answer to violence in America. Everybody knows if there is a true problem, it's a collection of accumulated troubles... but attempt to address one at a time and all you get is "Hey, it's not my fault... I just... yadda yadda..."

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

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Why did you like that? K-Mart isn't responsible for shooting people with guns.

See what I mean?.. next there will be smarta$$ coments about why don't we also ban this and that and....

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Should K-Mart also stop selling bicycles so that kid's won't get hurt on their retail products? What about kitchen knives? Car tires? Gosh, the list could go on and on. If we adopted Michael Moore's implied strategy of stopping the sale of any product that could cause someone to be hurt, then the stores would all be nearly empty.

Ahh, there it is.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[caress 0]

I'm sure that they do. I am saying that the people that are out there suppose to be enforcing the laws are being bought off by the people who stand to benefit the most from breaking the laws that are passed. That is what I am saying. It is a shitty truth, but you and I both know it happens. Sorry I lit such a fire on your thread, but I am quite an opiniated woman.-Caress

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.