SERVICE BULLETIN SPSB006: Aviacom SA/NV Argus AAD installation approval in SUN PATH PRODUCTS, INC equipment.

[f1freak 0]

http://sunpath.com/docs/SPSB006-3.22.11_0.pdf

HAVE FUN...
...JUST DONT DIE

[pchapman 279]

Bulletin summary:
Remove that Argus piece of @#$#@ from our rigs, now.

(Slightly paraphrased. Any errors in interpretation are mine.)


EDIT: Disclaimer: Not trying to be too mean to Argus, every manufacturer has had problems. But at the moment, they're the ones taking the heat.

[Coreefdiver 0]

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Bulletin summary:
Remove that Argus piece of @#$#@ from our rigs, now.

(Slightly paraphrased. Any errors in interpretation are mine.)

that about sums it up, pretty concise

now I'm even more thankful I didn't buy one for my Javelin, I'd hate to be out of action this early in the season.

DS#727, DB Cooper #41, POPS #11065, SCR #13183, FA #2125, SCS #8306, HALO #309 SRA #5930

[BrianM 1]

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now I'm even more thankful I didn't buy one for my Javelin, I'd hate to be out of action this early in the season.

I have 2 Javelins with Argus. I'm not happy about it, but no need to be out of action - I'll just take them out and jump without AADs until they sort out the problem. I'd never owned an AAD until a year ago anyway...

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[Coreefdiver 0]

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now I'm even more thankful I didn't buy one for my Javelin, I'd hate to be out of action this early in the season.

I have 2 Javelins with Argus. I'm not happy about it, but no need to be out of action - I'll just take them out and jump without AADs until they sort out the problem. I'd never owned an AAD until a year ago anyway...

90% of my jumps are w/o AAD, so no biggie there.. just that most places require an AAD (not that I'll be a tattletale or anything if one was required and you took it out) then there is getting the container open and resealed....

how about jumping w/o it turned on? ....but if the SB sez "take it out..." then thats what ya gotta do.

DS#727, DB Cooper #41, POPS #11065, SCR #13183, FA #2125, SCS #8306, HALO #309 SRA #5930

[BrianM 1]

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90% of my jumps are w/o AAD, so no biggie there.. just that most places require an AAD (not that I'll be a tattletale or anything if one was required and you took it out)

Fortunately none of the places I jump (even when travelling for boogies) require an AAD. Well - one place I go for an annual boogie does, but will exempt jumpers with sufficient experience and currency.

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then there is getting the container open and resealed....

The rigger who packed your reserves should be able to remove the AAD without repacking the reserve. I'm a rigger, so I can do my own

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how about jumping w/o it turned on? ....but if the SB sez "take it out..." then thats what ya gotta do.

Yeah, I thought of that too, but like you say, the SB requires it to be removed completely.

Personally, I think that since the cutter is located below the freebag, I'm safer with it installed and turned on. It might not save me, but that's always true of every AAD, and an AAD that's not installed is 100% guaranteed to not save me! I can eliminate the other risk (premature deployment on subsequent jumps) by avoiding low pulls (which I do anyway), and if I do have a low pull, checking the display to ensure it hasn't fired. Heck, I check it before every jump anyway.

... buuut... the SB doesn't allow me to do my own risk management, even though I can mitigate the risks...

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[glgflyer 0]

Probably a stupid question, but, should Aviacom be liable for some type of refund for those who purchased their product in good faith?

[Unstable 9]

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Personally, I think that since the cutter is located below the freebag, I'm safer with it installed and turned on. It might not save me, but that's always true of every AAD, and an AAD that's not installed is 100% guaranteed to not save me! I can eliminate the other risk (premature deployment on subsequent jumps) by avoiding low pulls (which I do anyway), and if I do have a low pull, checking the display to ensure it hasn't fired. Heck, I check it before every jump anyway.

+1

=========Shaun ==========

[Coreefdiver 0]

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......

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then there is getting the container open and resealed....

The rigger who packed your reserves should be able to remove the AAD without repacking the reserve. I'm a rigger, so I can do my own
the packjob I got now was done in FL, if I were to have this "problem"

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how about jumping w/o it turned on? ....but if the SB sez "take it out..." then thats what ya gotta do.

Yeah, I thought of that too, but like you say, the SB requires it to be removed completely.

Personally, I think that since the cutter is located below the freebag, I'm safer with it installed and turned on. It might not save me, but that's always true of every AAD, and an AAD that's not installed is 100% guaranteed to not save me! I can eliminate the other risk (premature deployment on subsequent jumps) by avoiding low pulls (which I do anyway), and if I do have a low pull, checking the display to ensure it hasn't fired. Heck, I check it before every jump anyway.

... buuut... the SB doesn't allow me to do my own risk management, even though I can mitigate the risks...

I hear ya, it would be nice if they issued the SB accordingly...
..Not to be any new installations, existing at owners discretion, check rig before each jump, ....etc...

DS#727, DB Cooper #41, POPS #11065, SCR #13183, FA #2125, SCS #8306, HALO #309 SRA #5930

[Unstable 9]

THANKS!!!!

=========Shaun ==========

[billvon 3,058]

>the SB doesn't allow me to do my own risk management, even though I can mitigate the risks.

Easy solution to that - become a rigger and do whatever you like to your own gear.

[BrianM 1]

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>the SB doesn't allow me to do my own risk management, even though I can mitigate the risks.

Easy solution to that - become a rigger and do whatever you like to your own gear.

If you'd read the post you are replying to, you would know that I am a rigger.

Sure, I suppose I could ignore whatever rules I can get away with. That's an ethical issue, and it's a different discussion. It also doesn't help me if I go to a DZ that does gear checks as part of the waiver process, and it doesn't help those who aren't riggers. But thanks for the advice.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[theonlyski 8]

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>the SB doesn't allow me to do my own risk management, even though I can mitigate the risks.

Easy solution to that - become a rigger and do whatever you like to your own gear.

Fairly certain he is a rigger.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[councilman24 37]

There also becomes the postition that if the Argus makes the rig unsafe, is it legal to pack a rig with one in the U.S.?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[BrianM 1]

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There also becomes the postition that if the Argus makes the rig unsafe, is it legal to pack a rig with one in the U.S.?

If the rig manufacturer says its not approved, then wouldn't it be clearly illegal in the U.S.?

I didn't bring up legality in my previous post as I'm not in the U.S., and there are no such laws here.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[jdamico03 0]

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Probably a stupid question, but, should Aviacom be liable for some type of refund for those who purchased their product in good faith?

Good question. I want to know the answer to that as well. I just purchased a used Argus and now I can't use it. I am not a happy jumper.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Probably a stupid question, but, should Aviacom be liable for some type of refund for those who purchased their product in good faith?

Good question. I want to know the answer to that as well. I just purchased a used Argus and now I can't use it. I am not a happy jumper.

If you want companies to play in this business, you need to accept that every one of them tells you that their equipment comes with no warranty of any sort. You purchase at your own risk. Period.

This presupposes that they tried to do their best to give you what you wanted.

I don't believe any manufacturer of any of our gear is knowingly violating that principle.

If you don't like the way the cards could been dealt, don't even ante up for the game.

[theonlyski 8]

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If you want companies to play in this business, you need to accept that every one of them tells you that their equipment comes with no warranty of any sort. You purchase at your own risk. Period.

From the back of the Argus manual:

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c) Aviacom warrants to you that the Hardware will be free from defects in workmanship and materials for a period that is
the shorter of (a) two (2) years from the date that the Hardware was first purchased by you and (b) the period ending
upon your breach of any term of the EULA (“Warranty Period”). During the Warranty Period the Argus will be repaired or
replaced at Aviacom’s option (“Limited Warranty”), without charge to you for either parts or labour. This Limited Warranty
covers the prompt replacement of the Argus only.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[riggerpaul 1]

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If you want companies to play in this business, you need to accept that every one of them tells you that their equipment comes with no warranty of any sort. You purchase at your own risk. Period.

From the back of the Argus manual:

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c) Aviacom warrants to you that the Hardware will be free from defects in workmanship and materials for a period that is
the shorter of (a) two (2) years from the date that the Hardware was first purchased by you and (b) the period ending
upon your breach of any term of the EULA (“Warranty Period”). During the Warranty Period the Argus will be repaired or
replaced at Aviacom’s option (“Limited Warranty”), without charge to you for either parts or labour. This Limited Warranty
covers the prompt replacement of the Argus only.

Well, you've got me on that one. Sort of...

That warranty covers "repair or replacement". Nothing about a refund.

Please refer to paragraph 9 of the EULA you quote -

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9) DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES: The Limited Warranty that appears above is the only express warranty made to you
and is provided in lieu of any other express warranties or similar obligations (if any) created by any advertising,
documentation, packaging, or other communications. Except for the Limited Warranty and to the maximum extent
permitted by applicable law, Aviacom and its suppliers provide the Argus and support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH
ALL FAULTS, and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, whether express, implied or statutory, including,
but not limited to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions of merchantability, of fitness for a particular
purpose, of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness of responses, of results, of workmanlike effort, of lack of
viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to the Argus, and the provision of or failure to provide support or other
services, information, software, and related content through the Argus or otherwise arising out of the use of the Software
and/or the Hardware. Also, there is no warranty or condition of title, quiet enjoyment, quiet possession, correspondence
to description or non-infringement with regard to the Software and/or the Hardware.

(RED emphasis mine).

So, whatever warranty you have, it only covers "defects" that are deviations from the intended design. If you can claim that your unit has a particular manufacturing defect, they will repair or replace with something that does not have that defect. They do not claim that the design is correct or fit for any use, and provide no warranty regarding that correctness or fitness for use.