bowling for columbine

[steve1 5]

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Out of curiosity, I wonder what you guys think about the idea of taking a discussion about a tragedy involving 14 dead kids, and turning it into a discussion about how cool each of your guns are.

_Am

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I thought that was what these forums were for, was to talk about what's on peoples minds. Sorry if things aren't going as you planned. Maybe if someone was in the Columbine School, with a gun to protect these unfortunate victims, maybe the tragedy could have been averted. In our school we have a couple of police officers who do carry guns. I'm also sorry if gun talk scares you. It's another freedom we have in America.

[Deuce 1]

Does anyone remember the propane bomb they brought that malfunctioned? If it had worked as planned, they would have killed more kids with that than the guns.

McVeigh killed lots more people with fertilizer.

Sociopaths will find a way. The guns just made it easier.

[billvon 3,070]

>I thought that was what these forums were for, was to talk about
>what's on peoples minds. Sorry if things aren't going as you planned.

It is a valid question. Imagine discussing a close friend of yours killed by a drunk driver, and seeing the discussion turned into a bragging session over who could drink more and still drive. It is indeed an open forum, but one might question if it was the best time to have that particular discussion.

[mnischalke 0]

andyman's friend was killed at Columbine?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[steve1 5]

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>I thought that was what these forums were for, was to talk about
>what's on peoples minds. Sorry if things aren't going as you planned.

It is a valid question. Imagine discussing a close friend of yours killed by a drunk driver, and seeing the discussion turned into a bragging session over who could drink more and still drive. It is indeed an open forum, but one might question if it was the best time to have that particular discussion.

That depends on your point of view. If you are ant-gun it might seem like a bunch of drunks sitting around bragging. The comparison that you just made in your post, comparing myself to a drunk is also offensive to me. Steve

[steve1 5]

Andyman,
I'm sorry. I just read the post about your friend being killed in this school. Again, I've let my big mouth babble on, when I shouldn't have. Again I'm sorry, and I'm done with this thread. Steve1

[AggieDave 6]

Shit, me too, I didn't realize that you were connected to that horrific event. I'm very sorry.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AndyMan 7]

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Shit, me too, I didn't realize that you were connected to that horrific event. I'm very sorry.

For the record, I'm not. Bill's example was a hypothetical. The fact that I'm not actually connected doesn't change the point, though.

_An

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[happythoughts 0]

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Does anyone remember the propane bomb they brought that malfunctioned? If it had worked as planned, they would have killed more kids with that than the guns.

McVeigh killed lots more people with fertilizer.

Sociopaths will find a way. The guns just made it easier.

Another facet to this whole puzzle is this. Eric Harris was rejected for induction into the Marine Corps because he lied about having been prescribed a mood-altering drug. Luvox is often prescribed to control depression. I don't think this was as simple as "kids in a bad mood" or "violence in society".

Granted, guns were the tool, but these guys put a lot of effort into this. They tried to buy a machine gun. The propane tank bomb took some planning. They were going to kill some people with or without guns.

This was the act of severely disturbed individuals, not just kids with access to guns. They would have found access to other tools.

[AggieDave 6]

Sort of like the Nat King Axe Rebellion back in the early 1860s...all they had were axes, but by god, they flat messed a lot of people up. Motive is important, tools are just tools.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[happythoughts 0]

The reason for the propane tank bomb was that they wanted to kill a lot of kids in as short a time as possible.

On the video tape that they made they said "I hope we kill 250 of you...". No reason, just indiscriminate anger.

The diary of one of the killers shows that they weren't angry at a particular group. It opens with "I hate the fucking world." Later he wrote, "If you recall your history, the Nazis came up with a 'final solution' to the Jewish problem: kill them all. Well in case you haven't figured it out yet, I say 'Kill mankind.' No one should survive."

These guys were mass-murderers with a suicide pact. I don't think that the thought processes of these people can be generalized onto the entire American society. All depressed kids are not mass-murderers.

A good psychological study of mass-murderers that are currently in jail might provide insights into how to prevent some of these type of events. Preventing all of them is not a reasonable expectation.

[steve1 5]

Does this mean we can all go back to arguing?? Actually I'm almost done with this thread. I hate arguing when it comes right down to it. I know you have strong beliefs in favor of gun control and mine are just as strong in the opposite direction. I really think we've talked this subject to death and about all we're accomplishing is hard feelings. I'd much rather jump with you than throw stones. I need to learn to stay out of threads such as this. Steve1

[kmcguffee 0]

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A good psychological study of mass-murderers that are currently in jail might provide insights into how to prevent some of these type of events.

I took a one day course in the psychology of mass murderers by a woman who has done this. She has interviewed almost every mass murderer since the late 70s. She said that all of the high school killers that she interviewed showed the classic symptoms of budding psychopaths. She said because they were under 18 she couldn't classify them as such though.

No point. Just food for thought.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[airtwardo 7]

I had a Glock 21 (14 round .45) last time I was out there, and there were two other cops with Glocks. All the 1911 variants began having malfunctions by the end of the week, the Glocks did not. It is a superior design.

[airtwardo 7]

Dave-
check out my retort to coments made in the "interesting article" post...
see if you agree?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Thanks to some snowy unjumpable weather in Colorado today, I found myself in the video store renting a movie for the first time in ages. I was there to get the "Two Towers" Lord of the Rings flic, but I was too late. Instead I picked out the "Bowling for Columbine" movie and watched it for the first time.

I liked it.

Like him or not, Michael Moore is concerned about the gun violence in the United States and he brings up many interesting things people should talk amongst each other about.

Why is it that America has such a high gun murder rate?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kramer 0]

I can't tell if you're being sincere or sarcastic ...but we had a huge-ass thread going in the past few days on this subject, here. There ya'are.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Yes I recall that thread but didn't partiticpate because I had yet to see the movie. And I just did a search for "Bowling for Columbine" and this one came up as the first hit.

So what are you going to do, shot me because I brought up the wrong thread? Dang ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kramer 0]

Haha...I was just lettin ya know man, no hard feelings, go easy.

You asked a question, and I figured you might want a more immediant answer, so I pointed you towards the other thread. So what are you going to do...shoot me for trying to help you out?

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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So what are you going to do...shoot me for trying to help you out?

Nope, you're good for now as I don't feel the need to sleep with a loaded gun and my pillow.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Casch 0]

ahahaha shuddup you two and go jump

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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ahahaha shuddup you two and go jump

I can't jump. It's snowing outside.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Casch 0]

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I can't jump. It's snowing outside.

So?

[JohnRich 4]

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Recently a police officer was killed and four severely wounded in London... with a kitchen knife! We'll have to outlaw knives next.

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The Brits are working on that too.

"ANYONE buying a knife will have to place their details on a national register under plans being drawn up by ministers to reduce crime.

"The purchaser of any type of bladed instrument - from a penknife to a sword or from a fish knife to a machete - will be asked by shopkeepers for details of their name, address and proof of identification. Although the register would be voluntary, anyone who refused to give the information would be told they could not buy the knife."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=%2Farchive%2F1999%2F07%2F04%2Fnife04.html

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[JohnRich 4]

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My personal opinion is that the hand gun ban is a good thing, in the UK at least.

See the attached chart. Notice what happened after all handguns were confiscated in 1997 - gun crime went up!

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In general the British public don't really want to own guns...

So? They should respect the rights of sportsmen and collectors, whether they agree or not. Just because a lot of people don't like something, doesn't mean that they should ban it, against the will of the people who aren't hurting anyone and are obeying all the laws. Democracies are supposed to respect the rights of law-abiding minority groups.

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Where do you draw the line? As was said in the movie, should individuals be allowed to own nuclear weapons?

"Arms" in this case are individual arms, not crew-served weapons or weapons of mass destruction. Moore knows that, and is putting forth a stupid argument.