"Undeniable Truths"

[cam 0]

this thread reminded me of something.. about where undeniable truths come from

(sorry for long post, I'd make it clicky but the version I have is no longer online without subscription)

Business Times - 17 Oct 2003


Fox and the dissemination of un-facts

By HAROLD MEYERSON

(WASHINGTON) Ever worry that millions of your fellow Americans are walking around knowing things that you don't? That your prospects for advancement may depend on whether you know who won the Iraqi war or where exactly Europe is?

Then don't watch Fox News. The more you watch, the more you'll get things wrong.

Researchers from the Program on International Policy Attitudes (a joint project of several academic centres, some of them based at the University of Maryland) and Knowledge Networks, a California-based polling firm, have spent the better part of the year tracking the public's misperceptions of major news events and polling people to find out just where they go to get things so balled up. This month they released their findings, which go a long way towards explaining why there's so little common ground in American politics today: People are proceeding from radically different sets of facts, some so different that they're altogether fiction.

In a series of polls from May till September, the researchers discovered that large minorities of Americans entertained some highly fanciful beliefs about the facts of the Iraqi war. Fully 48 per cent believed that the US had uncovered evidence demonstrating a close working relationship between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Another 22 per cent thought that we had found the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And 25 per cent said that most people in other countries had backed the US war against Saddam Hussein. Sixty per cent of all respondents entertained at least one of these bits of dubious knowledge; 8 per cent believed all three.

The researchers then asked where the respondents most commonly went to get their news. Fox, the survey concludes, was 'the news source whose viewers had the most misperceptions'. Eighty per cent of Fox viewers believed at least one of these un-facts; 45 per cent believed all three. Over at CBS, 71 per cent of viewers fell for one of these mistakes, but just 15 per cent bought into the full trifecta. And among PBS viewers and NPR listeners, just 23 per cent adhered to one of these misperceptions, while a scant 4 per cent entertained all three.

Now, this could just be pre-sorting by ideology: Conservatives watch O'Reilly, liberals look at Lehrer, and everyone finds his belief system confirmed. But the Knowledge Network nudniks took that into account, and found that even among people of like mind, where they got their news still shaped their sense of the real. Among respondents who said they would vote for George W Bush in next year's presidential race, for instance, more than three-quarters of the Fox watchers thought we'd uncovered a working relationship between Saddam and al-Qaeda, while just half of those who watch PBS believed this to be the case.

Misperceptions can also be the result of inattention, of course. If you nod off for just a nanosecond in the middle of Tom Brokaw intoning, 'US inspectors did not find weapons of mass destruction today', you could think we'd just uncovered Saddam's nuclear arsenal. So the wily researchers also controlled for intensity of viewership, and concluded that, 'in the case of those who primarily watched Fox News, greater attention to news modestly increases the likelihood of misperceptions'. Particularly when that news includes hyping every false lead in Iraq as the certain prelude to uncovering a massive WMD cache.

One question inevitably raised by these findings is whether Fox News is failing or succeeding. Over at CBS, the news that 71 per cent of viewers hold one of these mistaken notions should be cause for concern, but whether such should be the case at Fox because 80 per cent of their viewers are similarly mistaken is not at all clear. Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes and the other guys at Fox have long demonstrated a clearer commitment to changing public policy than to reporting it, and an even clearer commitment to reporting it in such a way as to change it.

Let's assume for just a moment that one major goal over at Fox is to ensure Mr Bush's reelection. Surely, anyone who believes that Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda were in cahoots, that we've found the WMD and that Mr Bush is revered among the peoples of the world - all of these known facts to nearly half the Fox viewers - is a good bet to be a Bush voter in next year's contest. By this standard - moving votes into Mr Bush's column and keeping them there - Fox has to be judged a stunning success. - LAT-WP

[mikkey 0]

Quote

Norway oil production: 3.1 million barrels per day (2001)
US oil production: 5.8 million barrels per day (1999)

>and what is not spent abroad is invested in things like free education
>and free healthcare.

Yep. Seems to work for them.

Well Norway's population is about 4.5 Million. So that prduction adds enormous value per capita...

---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[skydyvr 0]

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>Rush Limbaugh can out argue you, and most of the rest of us seven ways to Sunday Mr. Quade . . .

So could Noam Chomsky. Doesn't make either of their worldviews any more valid.

Right, and it makes neither of them big fat idiots either.

. . =(_8^(1)

[skydyvr 0]

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Quote

Rush Limbaugh can out argue you, and most of the rest of us seven ways to Sunday Mr. Quade . . .

You assume facts about something that has never been nor probably ever will be tested.

I doubt Mr. Limbaugh would ever agree to a fair public debate. To date, I believe he rarely has.

Okay, okay, my ASSertation is based on ASSumption. I'm always being an ass somehow.

As for Limaugh: He's not in a position that requires fair public debate, because people can tune him in or out at will. I do believe he gives articulate liberal callers a fair chance to speak up. Not that I've ever listened to his show very much; his personality is a little to blaring/beligerent for me, but otherwise he's a brilliant guy and has the self-made millions to prove it.

. . =(_8^(1)

[meltdown 0]

Kallend -
I think most people are gullible at some point in their lives. My point was that unquestioning adherence to a set of beliefs is a barrier to personal growth. In my particular case, I was immersed in a liberal culture and the "blame the rich" mentality that went along with that helped direct my decisions at the time (to my detriment). People should question the validity of information they are exposed to regardless of the source, because both political ideologies have spin machines working overtime to win over a gullible public.

[kallend 2,027]

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Ahhhhh Kallend. The man is using his life experiences as a backdrop to his evolution from liberal to conservative. I rather liked his post.

With regards to hoaxes, I think you'd find that 'tis left wingers that are the masters of the hoax. They lie to both themselves and their constituents with great frequency.

You misread my challenge.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Harksaw 0]

1. The greatest threat to humanity lies in the nuclear arsenal of the USSR.
2. The greatest threat to humanity lies in the USSR.

What makes them so much more likely to use nuclear weapons than us? Our record isn't promising. They were looking out for themselves just like we always have.

3. Peace does not mean the elimination of nuclear weapons.
Agreed, but we have far more than are ever needed. Having more is an unnecessary danger.

4. Peace does not mean the absence of war.
5. War is not obsolete.
Agreed.

6. Ours is a world governed by the aggressive use of force.
Agreed, but that doesn't mean its a good thing that it is this way.

7. There is only one way to get rid of nuclear weapons - use them.
This must be a joke. Try taking them apart? Using them for nuclear energy?

8. Peace cannot be achieved by developing a "understanding" with the Russian People.
Depends on your definition of an understanding. They were looking out for themselves, just as we were. They tried to spread their ideology just as we do.

9. When Americans oppose America, it is not always courageous and sacred; it is sometimes dangerous.

It can also be consrtuctive criticism if America is doing something wrong or destructive. And, when you say opposing America, I assume you mean oppose some policy of the government.

10. Communism Kills.
Perhaps it has, but such a blanket statement without backup information does not mean anything to anyone.

11. Neither the US, nor anyone else, imposes freedom on the peoples of other nations.
Yes, we have. It doesn't necesarily make it a bad thing though

12. Freedom is God given.
You can believe that if you like. Nothing wrong with that.

13. In the USSR, peace means the absence of opposition.
For one definition of peace, that would be true anywhere.

14. To free peoples, peace means the absence of threats and the presence of justice.
Agreed.

15. The Peace Movement in the US, whether by accident or design, is pro-Communist.
Ah, if only there were two sides to every arguement.

16. The collective knowledge and wisdom of 'seasoned' citizens is the most valuable, yet untapped, resource our young-people have.
Agreed. We should listen to a wide variety of opinions before making up our minds.

17. The greatest football team in the history of civilization is the Pittsburgh Steelers of 1975-1980
Uhhh... ok.

18. There is no such thing as war atrocities.
Of course there can be and have been. Would you not consider the Holocaust war atrocities? How about abuse of American POWs in Vietnam?

19. War itself is an atrocity.
OK.... compare this with 18.

20. There is a God.
Agreed.

21. Abortion is wrong.
In most cases, agreed.

22. Morality is not defined and cannot be defined by individual choice.
Morality comes from religion or societal pressure, depending on your beliefs.

23. Evolution cannot explain Creation.
I'm not sure what your point is.

24. Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access to the mainstream of society.
You have a warped view of feminism, especially in its early forms. I think this is more of a sexist joke than a serious arguement on your part.

25. Love is the only human emotion that cannot be controlled.
Ok...

26. The only difference between Mikhail Gorbachev and previous Soviet leaders, is that Gorbachev is alive.
Another blanket statement that means nothing without more arguement. Some arguements can not be summed up to one sentence.

27. Soviet Leaders are just left-wing dictators.
"Left wing" is so one-dimensional. There is a very big difference between a Democrat and a Communist, no matter how many times Rush et al tell you differently.

28. Abe Lincoln saved this nation.
Plenty of debates on both sides of this arguement.

29. The L.A. Raiders will never be the team that they were when they called Oakland their home.
Ok....

30. The US will again go to war.
Haha! Agreed. Its alredy happened and will happen again..

31. To more and more people, a victorious US is a sinful US.
32. This is frightening and ominous.
Many victories can be sinful. Another blanket statement that means nothing without more info.

33. There will always be poor people.
True. Doesn't make it a good thing.
34. This is not the fault of the rich.
Not necessarily, but it can be and sometimes is.

35. You should thank God for making you an American; and instead of feeling guilty about it, help spread our ideas worldwide.
You can be proud to be an American and not proud of some things it has done. Not everything America has done you should be prideful of.

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Kallend -
I think most people are gullible at some point in their lives. My point was that unquestioning adherence to a set of beliefs is a barrier to personal growth. In my particular case, I was immersed in a liberal culture and the "blame the rich" mentality that went along with that helped direct my decisions at the time (to my detriment). People should question the validity of information they are exposed to regardless of the source, because both political ideologies have spin machines working overtime to win over a gullible public.

I don't disagree with that. I hear a lot of left wing drivel too, since I work on the south side of Chicago. It's just that in this particular forum the Right seems to have the monopoly of posting rants that are subsequently shown to be drivel.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

Business Times - 17 Oct 2003


Fox and the dissemination of un-facts

By HAROLD MEYERSON

(WASHINGTON) Ever worry that millions of your fellow Americans are walking around knowing things that you don't? That your prospects for advancement may depend on whether you know who won the Iraqi war or where exactly Europe is?

Then don't watch Fox News. The more you watch, the more you'll get things wrong.

Researchers from the Program on International Policy Attitudes (a joint project of several academic centres, some of them based at the University of Maryland) and Knowledge Networks, a California-based polling firm, have spent the better part of the year tracking the public's misperceptions of major news events and polling people to find out just where they go to get things so balled up. This month they released their findings, which go a long way towards explaining why there's so little common ground in American politics today: People are proceeding from radically different sets of facts, some so different that they're altogether fiction.

In a series of polls from May till September, the researchers discovered that large minorities of Americans entertained some highly fanciful beliefs about the facts of the Iraqi war. Fully 48 per cent believed that the US had uncovered evidence demonstrating a close working relationship between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Another 22 per cent thought that we had found the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And 25 per cent said that most people in other countries had backed the US war against Saddam Hussein. Sixty per cent of all respondents entertained at least one of these bits of dubious knowledge; 8 per cent believed all three.

The researchers then asked where the respondents most commonly went to get their news. Fox, the survey concludes, was 'the news source whose viewers had the most misperceptions'. Eighty per cent of Fox viewers believed at least one of these un-facts; 45 per cent believed all three. Over at CBS, 71 per cent of viewers fell for one of these mistakes, but just 15 per cent bought into the full trifecta. And among PBS viewers and NPR listeners, just 23 per cent adhered to one of these misperceptions, while a scant 4 per cent entertained all three.

Now, this could just be pre-sorting by ideology: Conservatives watch O'Reilly, liberals look at Lehrer, and everyone finds his belief system confirmed. But the Knowledge Network nudniks took that into account, and found that even among people of like mind, where they got their news still shaped their sense of the real. Among respondents who said they would vote for George W Bush in next year's presidential race, for instance, more than three-quarters of the Fox watchers thought we'd uncovered a working relationship between Saddam and al-Qaeda, while just half of those who watch PBS believed this to be the case.

Misperceptions can also be the result of inattention, of course. If you nod off for just a nanosecond in the middle of Tom Brokaw intoning, 'US inspectors did not find weapons of mass destruction today', you could think we'd just uncovered Saddam's nuclear arsenal. So the wily researchers also controlled for intensity of viewership, and concluded that, 'in the case of those who primarily watched Fox News, greater attention to news modestly increases the likelihood of misperceptions'. Particularly when that news includes hyping every false lead in Iraq as the certain prelude to uncovering a massive WMD cache.

One question inevitably raised by these findings is whether Fox News is failing or succeeding. Over at CBS, the news that 71 per cent of viewers hold one of these mistaken notions should be cause for concern, but whether such should be the case at Fox because 80 per cent of their viewers are similarly mistaken is not at all clear. Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes and the other guys at Fox have long demonstrated a clearer commitment to changing public policy than to reporting it, and an even clearer commitment to reporting it in such a way as to change it.

Let's assume for just a moment that one major goal over at Fox is to ensure Mr Bush's reelection. Surely, anyone who believes that Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda were in cahoots, that we've found the WMD and that Mr Bush is revered among the peoples of the world - all of these known facts to nearly half the Fox viewers - is a good bet to be a Bush voter in next year's contest. By this standard - moving votes into Mr Bush's column and keeping them there - Fox has to be judged a stunning success. - LAT-WP

This diatribe is utter crap and is the opinion of some leftie "journalist". Boy the Fox News Channel really has all the leftie's panties in a wad, being the number one cable news channel and all. They are probably in shock at how many "stupid" people are in this country who watch FNC. I'm sure if Mr. Meyerson wanted to debate his case, I'm sure Mr. O'Reilly would welcome him as a guest on his show. But I'm sure as Bill would say, "Mr. Meyerson is hiding under his desk."

Chris

The liberals and knucklehead nine better come up with a more organized plan...and fast. The clock is ticking.

_________________________________________
Chris

[meltdown 0]

***
You misread my challenge.
________________________________________________

I think your challenge would be an interesting experiment, but would be necessarily subject to the bias of the person doing it. I just don't have the time or inclination to pursue it, and even if I did, it would probably prove nothing. If you can find an unbiased person to sift through all that stuff, I'd be interested in seeing the result.

[Harksaw 0]

1. There is a distinct singular American culture - rugged individualism and self-reliance - which made America great.
What about teamwork? That will get you further than your John Wayne attitude.


2. The vast majority of the rich in this country did not inherit their wealth; they earned it. They are the country's achievers, producers, and job creators.
They did, however, inherit from their parents the money to go to their Ivy League school and start a nice business of their own. Not to say they didn't work, but they did recieve a lot of help.

3. No nation has ever taxed itself into prosperity.
the US, after the Great Depression, by FDR.

Every prosperous nation does have taxes.

4. Evidence refutes liberalism.
Blanket statement, means nothing without this "evidence," yadda yadda.

5. There is no such thing as a New Democrat.
Ok.. dont know


6. The Earth's eco-system is not fragile.
And humanity's size power to destroy it is not weak or small.

7. Character matters; leadership decends from character.
Agreed.

8. The most beautiful thing about a tree is what you do with it after you cut it down.
You're a funny guy.

9. Ronald Reagan was the greatest President of the twentieth century.
Perhaps, hes up there.

10. The 1980s was not a decade of greed but a decade of prosperity; it was the longest period of peacetime growth in American history.
Wasn't there a recession in the late 80s? And, what happened to your previous definition of peace?


11. Abstinence prevents sexually transmitted disease and pregnancy -every time it's tried.
True, in the same way that not driving a car prevents all auto accidents, every time.

12. Condoms only work during the school year.
What?

13. Poverty is not the root cause of crime.
Agreed. Its human nature, lack of self control, and upbringing.


14. There's a simple way to solve the crime problem: obey the law; punish those who do not.
Agreed, that should be a very large part of it. Some laws need to be changed, however

15. If you commit a crime, you are guilty.
Not everything is so black and white. If I shoot someone breaking into my house, it can be justified. There are exceptions to every rule.

16. Women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a stud.
Another sexist joke I suppose? What about men on juries with hot female defendants?

17. The way to improve our schools is not more money, but the reintroduction of moral and spiritual values, as well as the four "R's": reading, 'riting, 'rithmatic, and Rush.
Again, you're a funny guy.

18. I am not arrogant.
Perhaps not, I would need more information, and I don't care if you were.

19. My first 35 Undeniable Truths are still undeniably true.
I have denied more than half of them.

20. There is a God.
You are repeating now.

21. There is something wrong when critics say the problem with America is too much religion.
Perhaps, but religion is not beyond reproach.

22. Morality is not defined by individual choice.
See previous.

23. The only way liberals win national elections is by pretending they're not liberals.
Every side tries to look moderate to win national elections.

24. Feminism was established as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.
Again, sexist dumb joke, and its incorrect.

25. Follow the money. When somebody says, "It's not the money," it's always the money.
A-men. Even when they don't say anything, its about the money.

26. Liberals attempt through judicial activism what they cannot win at the ballot box.
Works both ways. California recall? Florida?

27. Using federal dollars as a measure, our cities have not been neglected, but poisoned with welfare dependency funds.
I'm not sure what you are saying, but welfare definitely needs limits. Good workers get laid off, but there is no excuse for an able bodied person to be on welfare for more than a few months.

28. Progress is not striving for economic justice or fairness, but economic growth.
So getting the money justifies the means? Do you condone corporate crime? I would call progress getting both economic justice, fairness, and progress, and that can be done.

29. Liberals measure compassion by how many people are given welfare.
Conservatives measure compassion by how many people no longer need it.
The less people needing welfare, the better.

30. Compassion is no substitute for justice.
Agreed, but they each have their place.

31. The culture war is between the winners and those who think they're losers who want to become winners. The losers think the only way they can become winners is by banding together all the losers and then empowering a leader of the losers to make things right for them.
It works both ways The "winners" you speak of band together and have their own lawyers and politicians to keep things right for them.

32. The Los Angeles riots were not caused by the Rodney King verdict. The Los Angeles riots were caused by rioters.
True.

33. You could afford your house without your government - if it weren't for your government.
I'm not sure what you mean, but I think I agree.

34. Words mean things.
uhh... ok.

35. Too many Americans can't laugh at themselves anymore.
Agreed!

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[billvon 2,991]

>Right, and it makes neither of them big fat idiots either.

Definitely. It does, however, make them rich, which means they're not as dumb as some people think.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky. Really. Anyone got her number?

I am so happy that the US now has a president who lies about evidence he supposedly has to go to war. That is far less serious than lieing about a blow job, I mean that really is bad.

Plus, I am very happy the current president hears voices in his head. I feel so much safer knowing that god talks to him and tell him what to do.

Yup, The world is so much better off. In stead of a lie about a blow job, we now have a lie that resulted and continues to result in hundreds if not thousands of deaths.

But, you are so right, a blow job is much more serious.

edited for spelling

[quade 4]

Quote

. . . his personality is a little to blaring/beligerent for me, but otherwise he's a brilliant guy and has the self-made millions to prove it.

Well, see, we do agree on some things!

However, don't confuse the two points of being a brilliant and successful radio personality with actually being a brilliant and successful thinker.

Being successful on the radio simply means you can get people to tune in and listen to you long enough to fill in the wholes between the commercials. Generally speaking, radio hosts do this by simply giving people material they want to hear. This is the way music radio works and talk radio is no different.

Mr. Limbaugh's success in radio simply means he has tuned into the wants and needs of a certain segment of the listening public. Nothing more. It doesn't make him correct, only popular with a certain segment of all of the potential listeners. The number of his potential listeners is vast. I'd wager a guess that as much as 90 percent of the country -could- listen to his program. However that doesn't mean that 90 percent of the people -are- listening to him. He claims 20 million per week, but the way numbers are juggled in radio that might actually mean 4 million per day, 5 days per week. True, that's a huge number, but only a small percentage of the 290 million or so people in the entire U.S..

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

'Words mean things.' ......................Is that a quote from President Bush?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[crapflinger2000 1]

The short list (I can't believe I am posting in response to this drivel of all things):

1) Those people who use the following phrases on a daily basis: "the liberals", "the liberal agenda", "the left-wingers", "the pinkos", "the commies", "the liberal commies", "the left wing liberal communist agenda to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids", etc etc......

are over-generalizing, un-thinking, twats.

2) Those people who use the following phrases on a daily basis: "the fascists", "the baby-killers", "the war mongers", "the Nazis", "the pigs" etc etc....

are over-generalizing, un-thinking, twats.

3) Words do mean things. Except when it comes to Rush, who advocated war but stayed home because of a cyst of all things. How anyone can take this shit-head seriously is beyond me. Go watch Band of Brothers, especially any of the episodes about Bastogne, and then tell me Rushes little pimple on his ass was a legitimate excuse to stay home.

Further, what about his words about drugs. This point has been made over and over again in the popular press so I won't repeat it, but I just do not understand how the hypocrisy can be overlooked by his fans...

bla bla bla. If I have changed anyone's mind... I'll eat some pie.

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

[TheAnvil 0]

They DO have a plan: LIE. It's the only plan they seem to follow with regularity. Oh yes - and run like cowards when asked to defend their positions.



Unfortunately, my vote will be to re-elect the current president. There really are no good options running from either major party.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[ripper0289 0]

No, I was talking about me. Monica's a hottie.

[dropoutdave 0]

Quote

I feel sorry
For the earth’s population
’cuz so few
Live in the u.s.a.
At least the foreigners
Can copy our morality
They can visit but they cannot stay
We’ve got the american jesus
See him on the interstate
We’ve got the american jesus
He helped build the
President’s estate

Bit late reply to this one...but OH MY FRICKIN GOD!!!! If you think this is kickass then take a step back and a look around, a BIG step back and a BIG look around!

[SkydiverRick 0]

2. The vast majority of the rich in this country did not inherit their wealth; they earned it. They are the country's achievers, producers, and job creators.
They did, however, inherit from their parents the money to go to their Ivy League school and start a nice business of their own. Not to say they didn't work, but they did recieve a lot of help.

[SkydiverRick 0]

Quote

The short list (I can't believe I am posting in response to this drivel of all things):

1) Those people who use the following phrases on a daily basis: "the liberals", "the liberal agenda", "the left-wingers", "the pinkos", "the commies", "the liberal commies", "the left wing liberal communist agenda to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids", etc etc......

are over-generalizing, un-thinking, twats.

2) Those people who use the following phrases on a daily basis: "the fascists", "the baby-killers", "the war mongers", "the Nazis", "the pigs" etc etc....

are over-generalizing, un-thinking, twats.

I think that you are over-generalizing.

never pull low......unless you are

[Muenkel 0]

Why do liberals always portray the rich as being evil? I never understood this.

Didn't a lot of people become rich under Clinton's "alleged robust economy?"

_________________________________________
Chris

[ripper0289 0]

[quade 4]

Quote

Why do liberals always portray the rich as being evil? I never understood this.

Because sometimes ignorant people confuse the term "Liberal" with "Communist".

I think if you look up the definitions, you'll see that being rich is in fact evil under the Communist theory.

Liberals, on the other hand, do not equate wealth with evil, but they do believe that it's not a bad idea for wealthy people to help out the less fortunate and that some people are so unfortunate that they may, in fact, actually -need- help.

I dunno, seems to make some sense to me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I feel so much safer knowing that god talks to him and tell him what to do.

I am pretty sure it is not GOD that is talking to him.. I would say its the other spectrum. Think 10 Commandments... there are several blatantly being broken...in the NAME OF GOD.