Friend commited suicide last night. . .

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Excuse me but I have read the suicide note along with the Criminal Indictment against him in which he was facing up to 120 years in prison. So I think that qualifies me to know what was going through his head. And besides just prior to this, I lived with him every day for three years and knew the truth about what was going on in his life when no one else did.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[The111 1]

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In a philosophical sense I understand your reasoning. However, it is my belief that when you have a child who is three years old and vowed yourself to your wife forever, your right to make selfish decisions changes.

I agree with that 100%. Which is why I included a similar statement in my post. However, unless married, a parent, or the product of some other exception, you have no responsibility to anyone (and that includes your parents, who understandably would be greatly saddened by your death). Nobody asks to be born.

As another sidenote, the word selfish is misused by many people in my opinion. The word selfish should *not* have a negative connotation to it, nor selfless positive - both of these stigmas exist to a large extent in our society.

A selfish choice is simply one which puts the value of oneself above others. Selfish choices can be good ones - the choice to not lend your drug-addicted friend $300 for the fifth time in a month. By the same token, selfless choices (which are praised as god-like) can be bad ones - a reason for quite a few unhappy romantic relationships.

On an aside, MyOwnWay, I'm sorry for your loss. I've lost people incredibly close to me, but never through suicide. I don't intend for my post to be insensitive to you.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

Obviously you loved him very much, which is why you are so angry right now. Please seek some peace, Jen. Please talk with someone. I am still here.

[Michele 1]

Jen, love, I know you are very angry. Surprised, upset, and downright angry. You feel abandoned and furious as to what to do next - especially about your little girl.

Yes, I know.

I've walked both sides of this path - both as the one who thought seriously about suicide and also there when friends do kill themselves.

You are very right to feel the way that you do. I know none of the facts, but that's not important. What is important is that you know what you feel is usual in these circumstances. (I am not saying "normal", because I don't think that's a good choice of words).

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it is selfish and cowardly to run away from it just because you can. What about taking a stand for your child and family and just facing the bed you made???

Oh, honey, if there was a way for me to explain what it's like...the endless recriminations, the feelings like it would be better - yes, better!! - if I weren't there.
That I was keeping you from reaching your goals and dreams. That I know I am nothing better than a slug, and an accident and a horrible person. That if I weren't here, the problem wouldn't be, either. Look at my life. It's one big mistake after another. That's all...failure. Total failure. Everything around me always reminds me of my failure. And I can't take it anymore...let alone for the rest of my life. Years of this feeling - years on end, another 30 years like this....30 more years of failure, of fucking up people's lives....

Because, you see, I *am* the problem. I am nothing but a fuck up. Everything I touch in my life has been a failure...nothing ever goes right, and man, I just can't take that kind of constant battering. I just can't handle screwing up anyone else's life who is unfortunate enough to know me, let alone love me. Because what is there to love? Nothing. Blackness. Emptiness. Loathing. Nothing valuable here, move along, the show is over...

And so yes, death....

I've been hanging on to the knot in the end of my rope for so long, and I am just too tired. I can't climb up, I can't get swinging. I'm stuck. The only option is to let go...if I let go, if I disaapear, then it will all be all right for those who survive me. I will not be a problem to them anymore, I won't be a burden, embarrassment to them. I will not fail again....

Jennifer, I wish I could wrap my arms around you and let you know I understand. And how hard it is for you right now. How horribly difficult, and how terribly you hurt. And just let you rest here for a minute, knowing you were safe. And that it can be good again, and that you did nothing wrong, and your daughter is beautiful and special.

Know, Jenn, that while I am not there, I am there in spirit. And as my heart holds yours, know you will be all right - not now, not today, and maybe not for a while, but you will be all right. And until you are, my heart will wrap itself around yours, and hold you close. You, dear one, are loved.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

That's so beautiful, Michele. I'm sending all my love to you, too, Jen. My love to you and to your little girl. She is so beautiful, and she will always have you. You will both be just fine.

Btw, I have never met you, but I have heard nice things about you. My ex went up north a couple of times in the spring/summer and said nice things about the female camera flyer. I hope to meet you soon.

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Michele. Thank you so much for your PMs and all of your understanding. You are so right about everything. Reading your post made me cry and see it from Randy's point of view. I have been hurting so much for me and Dakota and so worried about everything and so angry I have never looked at it from that point of view. There was so much going on all the time and now I feel so overwhelmed, sick and extremely freaked out. Horrified is probably a better word although I have to say that it has been 8 days and I think I am doing better than day 3.

I've been blamed for this by his family and that has been another painful thorn in my side. I was told I was the cause that led him to this. This coming from members of the family who I loved and have been close to. One of my favorites won't speak to me and I care about her very much.

I was the only one who really understood the situation and it was very complex. And the hardest thing for me is that I loved this man and tried to help him as best I could until he ran away from me too. I wanted our family to be what I thought it wa capable of being and I failed to be able to fix the problems.

I think about what he did, I think about it every day and night. Part of me is haunted by the vision of it, the act of it, what was going through his mind, what wasn't, part of me is sad, part of me is numb, part of me feels void. But I thank you Michelle again for your kind, compassionate sords of wisdom.

I guess I have been going through the only process I know how and seems to go back and forth, grief, anger, grief, anger, grief anger.

I don't mean to attack anyone on these threads, I am just very sensitive to these issues.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

VanillaSKyGirl, I read some of your posts and threads to my mom and Michele's too and you both have had me in tears. I told her I hope I have the opportunity to meet you both and skydive with you one day because I cannot wait to run up and give you both the biggest hugs.

Thank you both so much for your support and strength and wisdom and know that it has touched me deeply.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[Amazon 7]

I am really sorry that your friend took this way out of life. Be thankful that whatever pain they were suffering in life is now over for them. Its always harder for those left behind when death comes calling.

Be thank full it was not you that found them, at least you have a picture in your minds eye of who and what they were not as seen thru the scene of who and where they died.

Major Vibes to you Remember the good things about them and the bad things will drift off into the past as they should.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

I am sending you much love, my friend. Michele has made me cry (in a good way) many times, as well. (Hugs for Michele, too.) My hugs and love are here for you and your daughter, as well, Jen. I am not leaving. Someday, things will be good for you, again. Time will help you to heal...I promise that it will be good, again, someday. In the meantime, you must accept our ((((((((((VIBES)))))))))) and (((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))).

[Michele 1]

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I feel so overwhelmed, sick and extremely freaked out. Horrified is probably a better word although I have to say that it has been 8 days and I think I am doing better than day 3.

Yes. And expect to have days where you can't function, and wonder what happened, you had been doing so well. It is like a pingpong ball, mourning is. Anger, acceptance, hatred, isolation, grief, bargaining, and so forth. Know that whatever you are feeling at that particular moment is exactly right for you to feel - it's how you feel, and that's just the way it is. Don't get mad at yourself for feelings...they are transitory, and part of the mourning process.

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I have been hurting so much for me and Dakota and so worried about everything

Of course you have been. You'd be robotic if you hadn't been. You would be less than human. Is everyone eating? Sleeping? Keeping their bodies clean? If yes, then you're doing as well as can be expected. Give yourself time to get your head around this...it's not something that can be easily absorbed, nor rapidly accomodated into your perspective. Allow yourself to take it in in pieces, you know? I call it the "today decisions, tomorrow decisions". Those things which must be done today, get done. Everything else can wait until tomorrow. Normal thinking will be hard for a bit...don't freak out if you forget simple little things. If it's too hard to go to the market, as long as there is enough to eat and drink today, then that's a decision for tomorrow.

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've been blamed for this by his family and that has been another painful thorn in my side. I was told I was the cause that led him to this. This coming from members of the family who I loved and have been close to. One of my favorites won't speak to me and I care about her very much.

Isn't that the worst part, too; when you're told it's your fault when someone else makes a choice.

I think that maybe they are grieving in their way - looking for an answer, and not seeing the right one. It was Randy's choice to do this, you didn't do anything to make him make that choice. They can't see that right yet - and that's all right.

People like to find blame for things - even here on this board you can see that. What made so-and-so die? What happened? It was drunk driving. It was the terrorists/Bush/Gubmint/Caspar the Friendly Ghost, et cetera. What that is, to me, is simply a way of making sure they are not responsible for it, and a way to defend themselves from any perceived guilt they may feel.

People, when faced with a suicide, often say "what could *I* have done differently? How could I have changed the course of that person's life, and alter the outcome? They blame self for a decision made wholly and utterly from one single person - the one who suicided. By not allowing the suicider to be responsible, then there could've been a change - and if there was a change, then maybe it wouldn't have happened. And if they are not able to understand that if they didn't contribute, then you didn't, either, then of course you're blamed. The good news is, Jenn, it will lessen in time. They are as devastated as you are, as angry as you are, as hurt and confused as you are. And they need time to wrap their heads around it, too.

My only advice is to recognize their greiving like you recognize yours, and give them time to move through it to a more compatible position. And don't stop loving them. They haven't stopped loving you, dear one. They are grieving too.

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And the hardest thing for me is that I loved this man and tried to help him as best I could until he ran away from me too. I wanted our family to be what I thought it wa capable of being and I failed to be able to fix the problems.

You failed at nothing, Love. You did your best. If you could've done better, you would have, right? Everyone does their best. It's how we are.

I know you loved him, and you still do. I know you tried to help him. I'll bet even after he ran you tried.

But know this, Jenn. He wasn't running from you or Dakota. He was running from himself. If someone is depressed, changing everything all at once - no warning, just boom - is something that is an indicator. The problem is, as I see it (and lord knows I could be wrong), is that unless one is getting help from professionals, then the problem continues and in fact worsens to such a point as we saw with Randy.

You did everything you could. Know that, be sure in that. Rest in that understanding. He was the one who could've made the difference, and he was incapable of making it. None of what happened means he loved you less, or that you were not worth it. Nothing of the sort. You did not fail.. I promise you that.

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I think about what he did, I think about it every day and night. Part of me is haunted by the vision of it, the act of it, what was going through his mind, what wasn't, part of me is sad, part of me is numb, part of me feels void.

And again, all of that is normal and expected. I am not a counsellor, but I am available for you if you need to talk. And perhaps you might look into going to a real counsellor for a bit, just to help you over this first, roughest part.

Again, much love to you. My heart is yours.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Michele,

I have read many of your posts to my family especially my Mom and I agree with her responses to your posts 100% and just want to share what she has said:

"I think she is one of the wisest, most compassionate and wonderful human beings who bless the Earth and I thank her from the bottom of my heart for her words to you and that I'll always be grateful to her."

"Unfortunately for the world, they all don't know her or about her because her words are so beneficial to humanity. She could help billions."

After reading yours and VanillaSkyGirls posts I deleted all of mine. I do not need the whole world to read my pain. Reading what I have from you two ladies has been all the support I really needed to hear and you have filled me up with love.

Thank you both so much and I hope we get the chance to meet sometime.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[Michele 1]

Jen, you just made me cry. Please hug your mom for me, and tell her thanks.

And yes, we will meet. But we've already met, you know? It will be more like old friends seeing each other again.

Much love to you.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[ThighMan 5]

Vibes to you Brother. Don't keep it in. Let it out and talk to someone.

Airborne
Blue Skies, No Wind
Feet and Knees Together

[bobsled92 0]

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Suicide is the ultimate selfish act.

Perhaps, if done as a cry for help or attention, but for some folks going through pain and mental anguish, it simply distorts their view of the world so much that it seems like a reasonable solution. It usually never will seem like the right thing to do by those left behind, but know that for the person that simply wants the pain to end, that pain must be unbearable for this to appear to be the only option.

I hope I never truly understand it from that perspective.

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That is very well stated.
It's not that "others will pay" or "I hate you!" but sometimes a thought that makes a person NOT feel anything and not know the hurt for others left behind. Instead limited thoughts of: "Heaven is perfect so why do I stay here in pain and suffering" looking forward to it like a permanent Holiday. It's not meant to harm others but, it always does.
The ones that are gone had big hearts that weighed too much, too fast.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[Lee03 0]

I'm sorry I know how it hurts, have had several friends do this in the past. Makes no sense as to why someone would do this. Thoughts and prayers for you.

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To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities.

--Nevil Shute, Slide Rule