To Fight it or Not?

[Thanatos340 1]

I know there are several other single parents on here and I would like to get some unbiased opinions from both Mothers and Fathers to see if I am perhaps over reacting to a situation...

I have an 11 year old Daughter. Her Mother and I were never Married and split up before she was born. Right after she was born, I filed a Petition to Legitimize and asked that the Court set Child Support and Visitation. For the past 11 years, I have spent almost every weekend with my daughter and I have never been late with a Child Support Payment. We have a slightly different arrangement for Holidays, She gets our daughter Until 3:00 PM and I pick her then and she spends the rest of the day with me and my family.

Here is the Problem.. My Ex just got Married a few months ago to a guy she has been dating for 7 years. Now she feels that our splitting Holidays is too much for our daughter because there are now 3 families to deal with, So she wants me to drop spending Holidays with her completely. No, she said she is not willing to alternate; she just wants me to drop seeing her altogether on the actual Holidays. The Holidays we are talking about are Thanksgiving and Christmas Day. She says I can just get her the next day instead.
Uhhh.. I have a problem with this. This is not acceptable to me. She is unwilling to bend on this. At this point my options will be to lawyers involved again and go after her for Contempt of Court. I don’t like this Idea either because I really don’t want to put my daughter through the problems and Hostilities that are sure to follow.
My primary concern is what ever is best for my daughter. Should I fight for what is Right (and somewhat selfish in this case) or allow this to happen to provide a more peaceful and stable environment for her. Soon as I get the Lawyers involved again, all chances of a peaceful life go down the tubes for a few years.

[pleifer 0]

most of the situations that i have seen, are that they alternate, one year with one, the next with the other. but these are rational people, we are talking about not ones influenced by SO's, you are right for wanting wanting fairness, but ask yourself if it is worth the agrivation and head ache. if so fight it. vibes

_________________________________________
The Angel of Duh has spoke

[turtlespeed 221]

I wish I could elaborate -
Same Same here - damn - why can't it just be easy?
If you can't get her this time, talk to your lawyer and see what the
alternative is for contempt of court.

My opinion - let her hang her self with her own actions. If she has that little respect for a dad that has payed attention and followed the rules, then she is not a very good person. Go after what you want and need. It seems she is selfish and lazy, and just doesn't want the hassle, at your expense.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kai2k1 0]

Being a parent myself, i would advise you to fight for what is right. You have an agreement and your X agreed to it. Now that she is remarried she wants to invonvienence you?? thats not right.

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan

[Nightingale 0]

don't split individual days, but you get her every other holiday (you get her on thanksgiving, her mom gets her on christmas, etc). I don't have kids, but I mediated a situation between two good friends who had split up and ended up with the same issue. This is what they agreed upon.


You should be able to see your kid on holidays. As her father, you have a right of access to your child, dependant on whatever custody arrangement you currently have (if you don't have a custody arrangement, I would suggest seeing a lawyer to formalize this...its important to have something in writing. if its not formal, her mother could take her anywhere without consulting you, law enforcement couldn't do anything because she'd be with a parent, and custody battles over state or national lines are a PITA.) If her mother is not willing to either 1. abide by your current custody agreement, if you have one, or 2. permit you access to your child on at least half the holidays, see a lawyer.

Best of luck!

[Rebecca 0]

To clarify: Are you saying you would get to see your daughter the day after the actual holidays, or not at all (ie. no Christmas Eve, no day after Thanksgiving?)

If it's a matter of not seeing her on Thursday or the 25th, but on Friday or the 24th instead, I wouldn't fight it. I'd set up a new tradition, just for the two of you. You could probably arrange a family gathering on those days fairly easily, right?

If you won't get to see her until the weekend after, or the weekend before, I'd consider fighting it. Sounds like you're close enough to swing by and pick her up for a day- there's no reason the ex shouldn't be able to compromise.

Besides, you're the daddy, not the new hubby. You and your family should get 'first dibs', not him and his.

IMHO, solely based on what you said, she's the one being selfish and turning this into an issue.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[tandembrent 0]

what i just read brought back a flood of memories, bad mostly. i'm not a parent, probably never will be. my advice is to see your daughter when you can, don't push your ex the courts will not give you what youseek without a life-long cost to your daughter. there will be periods in her life where she may not see you as much as you need, but she will always know you are there. don't put her in front of a judge, they will make her choose ultimately. and that choice will be on her heart forever.
i can only send you my deepest understanding and best wishes.

~~~~Green grass and high clouds forever~~~~
no matter where you go, there you are!

[bmcd308 0]

I'm with Nightingale on this. I find it odd that the relationship that your ex thinks should suffer because she has formalized her relationship with a new guy is the relationship between her daughter and her father.

Brent

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[bodypilot90 0]

fight for all your worth. Kids need both parents

http://www.themenscenter.com/National/national06.htm

[MarkF 0]

A mate of mine went through almost exactly the same scenario a number of years ago. He got the lawyers involved and you can imagine the quality and quantity of the ensuing shit fight. Not even a little tiny bit pleasant... Suicide attempts, drunken rages, etc. from both sides of the argument. Not fun.

Two weeks ago I was talking to one of the children, no longer a child, and he now has only contempt for BOTH parents. Why ? At NO time were the children asked what they wanted. I think to not ask the kids is a HUGE mistake - please don't make it...
Ooroo
Mark F...

[wmw999 2,498]

If you do this (and it could be worth doing), formalize it with a court order, and include in the court order that future changes like that will have to be agreed to.

You don't want to erode your parent rights. On the other hand, it's just a day. My ex-husband's family very early decided that their Christmas celebration was going to be on the 26th or 27th (note: this was while we were still married -- other relatives were the cause).

We still happily celebrate, together, on the 26th or 27th. Folks save money traveling after Christmas, and no one is hassled or hurried.

But you really don't want to set a precedent where it will get harder and harder. On the other hand, your daughter is 11 now, and she needs to understand that her wishes count more and more. Even if that means she wants to spend a holiday with a friend (yes, it will happen someday).

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skybytch 273]

When I read things like this I'm soooo thankful that my son's sperm donor was never involved in our lives.

If I were in your shoes, I'd fight. You have every right to spend at least part of the holidays that are important to you and your daughter with her.

What does she think about the proposed arrangement? She's old enough to have her own opinion and her opinion should be considered before anything is decided, imho.

[PhreeZone 20]

Best advice... work out a deal that keeps you out of the courts. I was so pissed in my parents divorce when they would fight between themselves using me or my brother to get what they wanted. Luckly I was old enough that I told them both to screw themselfs and I took off as soon as I graduated school a few years later. I have'nt talked to my father for more then an hour in the last 6 years over the shit he pulled in the divorce. Don't fall into the same trap.

Talk to your daughter abotu the situation without making her mother out to "take away our time" spin. Sit down and ask her if she would be as happy with a situation that mixes up the days a little bit. If its just an afternoon on a holiday... give it up and agree to take the next entire day. Its giving you more time and it prevents fights.

There was and still is nothing that pisses me off more then at the holidays having to attend 4 Thanksgivings and 4 Christmas things all on the same freakin day since no one wants to compromise.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[skymama 37]

Before you go back to court, talk to her again about setting up some kind of holiday schedule like what has been mentioned where you alternate. You get your daughter this year at Thanksgiving, she gets her at Christmas, and then next year it switches. That's the type of thing I have set up with my ex. It's just not fair to anyone for her to get your daughter on every holiday.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I don't think the day after a holiday is the same at all. That is very unfair. I'm sure that your daughter and your family are both glad to have holidays together when they do. It isn't like your family has a day-after-thanksgiving holiday they spend together, right? So, why should it then be fair for her to think that that day is equivalent? It is not. I think that you should have alternating holidays, period. One year you get Thanksgiving and your Ex gets Christmas. The next year, you get Christmas and your Ex gets Thanksgiving. It's only fair, and I would attempt to appeal to her sense of fairness and reason with this logic. Ask her how she would feel if she were put in this position? Having her daughter on the day after holidays rather than on the holidays? You have paid your dues and been a good father and you deserve better than being treated this way. Good luck. Talk to her again first, tell her that you don't want to cause problems but that you really feel that you're being treated unfairly and deserve to spend some holidays with your daughter. If that doesn't work, take it to court.

Angela.

[Nightingale 0]

my mom's family celebrates christmas on the 24th. My dad's family celebrates on the 25th. my folks are still married, but this arrangement works out great, because we get to see both sets of grandparents and aunts/uncles/cousins, and don't feel like we have to rush off somewhere else...

perhaps you and your daughter could start a special christmas eve tradition, and then alternate on the other holidays?

Ask her what she wants, but don't let her decision hold all the weight. kids shouldn't have to choose between parents.

[Thanatos340 1]

We do have a Court Order outlining Visitation Rights; I had this done when I petitioned the court to legitimize my daughter soon after she was born. This court order States that I get her at 3:00 PM on Thanksgiving and Christmas.

The distance thing is what is driving this. My Ex Lives 60 Miles away. He new Hubbys Family Lives 40 Miles away. My Ex feels that my daughter is spending too much time traveling on Major Holiday, I don’t disagree with this. What I disagree with it that she feels that My family is the one that gets cut out of the picture to fix something that we have been doing for 11 years.

Her Mother is completely unwilling to even discuss alternating holidays.

I would be willing to discuss alternating Holidays but that is not an option with her. I have been trying that angle for weeks. It finally got down to "Forget it, you wont get her at all then" from her. Which puts me in the position of accept her terms or go after her for contempt. Bad situation for my daughter to be put in. Fortunately I think she is still unaware of the problem.

I don’t want to do anything that is not in my daughters best interest but part of me really thinks I need set an example by standing up for what is right - While the other side only wants to make things easy and peaceful for my daughter.

[turtlespeed 221]

Since you put it that way, I refer you to my earlier post. Contempt of court is serious in alot of judges eyes. Document the attempts to reconcile with alternating holidays, then after she denys you the visitation and breaks the law by doing it, it might help you.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[bodypilot90 0]

  Quote

Contempt of court is serious in alot of judges eyes.

Yes you are right, it's like telling a Judge " f-you".
They really frown on that.

[KerMor 0]

I have been put in the same situation. My parents divorced when I was 4.
The arrangement was that I was spending every other Xmas, every other new year eve (~Thankgiving) with my father. So I was spending 1/2 of each school holidays in each of my two families.
I used to love it. That was doubling my presents: 2 Xmas

But there was no issues with grand-parents as they were not there anymore.

I hope you will find a friendly compromise.

You can't determine the length of your life
- but you can control its height and depth.

[rocketdog 0]

Thanatos~
i think to take it to court would be a LONG, EXPENSIVE, DRAWN-OUT process... but it seems like this will become a recurring problem since your ex is now permanently seeing someone!

maybe you would not want to put this stress on your daughter, but how does she feel about the whole situation. in most court cases they rule in the CHILD'S best interest, or based on the child's actual choice.... ?

from my own standpoint (i grew up & am STILL growing up in this type of situation) it is admirable that you are contributing so whole-heartedly to your ex and daughter. i respect my father for simply TRYING his hardest to spend time with me. don't settle for a compromise when it comes to your daughter... "complacency is tolerance"

~Hollywood

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[Racenic 0]

Fight for your rights.
Get your self a calendar/diary if you haven't already
Keep track of all visitations, payments, and most important any missed dates to see you child.
If it's not documented, it didn't happen (so says the courts)

Every other Holiday is the way to go, but if she can't see it that way, do as I did.... I have full custody of both of my kids. I don't get child support from her, (don't need it) However I have peace of mind.
In addition I try to live as close to her as possible to minimize the traveling time.

Good Luck and Major Vibes,

Nick

Nick D

The key to Immortality is- first living a life worth remembering”

[Nightingale 0]

it is in your daughter's best interest to have as much contact with her father as she can.

you don't want her to ask, six years down the road "daddy, why didn't you fight to see me on christmas? didn't you want to?"

Especially now that she's a pre-teen... she's going to need you around as much as possible, if only to intimidate potential boyfriends

it sounds like you're going to have to call in the lawyers on this one.

[Deuce 1]

If you bring the court order to her house at 3 PM and she refuses to release your daughter to you, you call the cops and they will perform a "civil standby" while the court's order is enforced.

A truly miserable way to spend a holiday, but if you can keep your cool through it, not a bad way to open negotiations to something better.

I had some good counsel once. Ask yourself the question "what do I want?". If the answer is "to see my daughter at 3 on every holiday, take my first suggestion. If what you want is to get along with your ex during your daughter's childhood, you'll have to try something else. Most courts will refer to a mediator who will keep everybody on topic and civil to one another while a compromise is reached.

[wzettler 0]

I also think you should fight to see your daughter. with that said, have you asked her what she wants to do? Maybe she can help in the decision, its her life too...

I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.