Stowless bag packing w/o rig dragging

[Hellis 0]

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I have found that different kinds of stows affect how the lines come off the bag, resulting in a greater propensity for linetwists and/or feeling "jerks" as they come off.
I don't disagree that stow bands are not needed (remember, I jump a "stowless" bag), but I also disagree if someone says that the wraps or type of band has "no affect" on the deployment.
Based on experience, they do affect how the lines affect the bag which in turn affects twists and hard openings.
I've put around a dozen jumps on each various configuration (excepting the Silibands, didn't like those at all).

Ok. Even if its not that large sample its enough in my opinion to say that packing can not have affected all of those jumps.
Thanks for sharing.

What i meant about stows dont affect was, offcourse they affect as they can swing the bag or jam.
But having no linestows does not make it better or worse if they are done correct.

[mjosparky 4]

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Too many people who don’t understand the physics of deployment and inflation make assumptions that are just plain wrong. Pretty soon they become fact as in urban legend.

After having seen the forces of different types of deployments from personnel to cargo as recorded on a PDAS logger/ strain gauge I have to say that I agree with you on that.

20+ years of doing testing using similar telemetry taught me the same thing. That and read things like AFFDK-TR-78-51, Recovery Systems Design Guide published by Irvin for the Air Force Flight Dynamics Lab. Wright Patterson.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stayhigh 2]

To dse.
You gotta convince the mexican that double wrapping doesn't do shit to slow down the opening

And how does vector d bag fit into voodoo???


However, even with stowless d bag neatness of figure 8 is important.
I shoveed one in less than 4 min, just literaliy throw it in there and resulted in jerky opening even with stowless bag....

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[danielcroft 2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nsca5add8g - PD's take on locking stows and rubber band usage.

I switched all my rubber bands to large and double wrapped on the weekend. I used to have large only on the locking stows and would single wrap them and then single wrap all the others which were small. I definitely felt the difference as the lines were released from the stows. It was noticeably slower. Inflation was obviously not affected.

[stayhigh 2]

What is pd's take on stowless bag???
Oviously it does not take 10 to 15 lbs of force to take my lines out.

Packing is like religion, everyone has there own system and beliefs.
Whatever floats your parachute.
I have 1300 jumps with single stow and only hard opening i had was when i was jumping hard opening canopy. Ie sabre 1 that opened hard no matter what, and cobalt that did it's own thing.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[danielcroft 2]

Good question, I'm not sure I've seen an opinion from PD on stowless bags. Of course, stowless is somewhat of a misnomer. In my experience, PD has been awesome at answering questions via email, might be worth asking if you're interested.

I just ordered a "stowless" bag for my Infinity FWIW.

[DocPop 1]

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I just ordered a "stowless" bag for my Infinity FWIW.

Did you get the "party bag" from VSE, or something else?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[danielcroft 2]

Um, to be honest, I saw some marketing guff about "party" whatever but I don't really know what that is. I ordered a stoic (<-- that was an attempt at humor) stowless dbag from VSE.

[DSE 5]

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To dse.
You gotta convince the mexican that double wrapping doesn't do shit to slow down the opening

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never have had that conversation with him, perhaps I should.

And how does vector d bag fit into voodoo???
You packed it, didn't you? I had one up until Chicks Rock was over (Moab to CR) before I orderd mine from UPT.


However, even with stowless d bag neatness of figure 8 is important.
I shoveed one in less than 4 min, just literaliy throw it in there and resulted in jerky opening even with stowless bag....

[aeroflyer 0]

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With the mPOD (Magnetic bag) I always use a drag mat, this really works well. When packing outside or at our remote DZ, when not having a drag mat, I'll close the bag and walk it to the rig and than make the figure-8's.

How has the mPOD worked out for you? I have a Wings and was thinking of getting one.. unless wings has a stowless bag?

I use big bands now, single wrap locking stows double wrap everything else. But I'm thinking about moving to small single bands on everything. I may have had an out of sequence deployment before (where locking stows seemed looser than line stows) but no hard openings (Pilot main).

[DocPop 1]

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Um, to be honest, I saw some marketing guff about "party" whatever but I don't really know what that is. I ordered a stoic (

I spoke to Gail at VSE and she was talking about this "party bag" which is $100 to buy separate from the rig. It looks pretty good (she sent me some pics) but is not on their website that I could find.

I guess they have been working on it for a while but only just started talking about it.

PS - thanks for pointing out your attempt at humor - I may have missed it otherwise!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[mjosparky 4]

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I may have had an out of sequence deployment before (where locking stows seemed looser than line stows) but no hard openings (Pilot main).

What makes you think you had an out of sequence deployment?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stayhigh 2]

I probably packed less than 20 for you and i never saw you with stowless bag.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[danielcroft 2]

Yeah, that's what I have on order then. Not sure why they call it a "party bag" that just sounds silly IMO but whatever. Hoping it'll get here pretty soon so that I can start using it.

[DontfallOff 0]

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Too many people who don’t understand the physics of deployment and inflation make assumptions that are just plain wrong. Pretty soon they become fact as in urban legend.

After having seen the forces of different types of deployments from personnel to cargo as recorded on a PDAS logger/ strain gauge I have to say that I agree with you on that.

+2

'Line dump' is blamed far too frequently for hard openings - packing error and chaos theory are far more believable causes of hard openings - just look at the 'free stows' used in BASE rigs and reserves - they still open fine.

[DontfallOff 0]

This point was good - figured it could do with a bump.

[RMURRAY 1]

I asked PD and as of now they have not done any testing on semi stowless bags.

[GoneCodFishing 24]

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ETA: remember, your figure 8-s should be progressively smaller, it's recommended in the instructions for it. I believe its so a line doesn't catch the rest and pull them out, but they're out so fast, it would be hard to notice IMO

The reason it is important to make the fig-8's progressively smaller, is so as to avoid having a bight of line hitching around another bight from lower down the bag causing a tension knot at worst, or excessive wear on the lines due to sawing/friction/melting.

This danger is further increased if the brake lines aren't untwisted regularly to stop them behaving like horny snakes in a worm's hen party.