skydivejersey 0 #51 October 31, 2003 I think the constitution sucks. It why someone in America gets shot every 90 seconds. The RIGHT to bear arms. What fucking century are you living in?? I think the constitution should be updated. But why should I really care - I don't live in the States. Point of fact I'm as much a capatilist as the next man. I am a fucking acccountant on a tax haven for fuck sake. So whats you point...you trying to tell me that its a democratic way to elect a president, that a vote is only as valuable as your ZIP code. Why?? Becaue thats how its done and thats how it should always be done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #52 October 31, 2003 >>The electoral college was never intended to act independently of the voters. << What do you mean? It was most certainly intended to be an independent body. The point is to have a system that keeps a landslide victory in one state (like California) from having a disproportionate effect on the outcome of the election. Power in the election is allocated among the states by the electoral college. Do a google search. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #53 October 31, 2003 >>Democracy: A system whereby one person may have more people vote for him but because some fucked up college system exists does not win. << That would actually be a republic, not a democracy, which is what the US is. And that system works pretty good. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #54 October 31, 2003 Quote Democracy: A system whereby one person may have more people vote for him but because some fucked up college system exists does not win. I agree, those damned college kids don't have a clue what they are doing . . . . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #55 October 31, 2003 QuoteThe point is to have a system that keeps a landslide victory in one state (like California) from having a disproportionate effect on the outcome of the election. Power in the election is allocated among the states by the electoral college. See that to me seems wrong. Why should my vote mean something different, when if I lived in a neighbouring state it could means something more. Its postcode politics. A landslide in one state SHOULD have a proportionate effect on the outcome of the election - the college system makes it disproportionate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #56 October 31, 2003 QuoteWhy should my vote mean something different, when if I lived in a neighbouring state it could means something more. Its postcode politics. A landslide in one state SHOULD have a proportionate effect on the outcome of the election - the college system makes it disproportionate. Because, in essence, the US is just that, united states. The country was formed from a bunch of independent states that decided to join together for common defense and trade. Unfortunately, the civil war drastically altered the role of the federal gov't and consolidated much more power on the federal level than what was originally intended. Individual states wanted to essentially be sovereign but that has been continually eroded over the years. One of the reasons I dislike Bush so much is because of his rampant consolidation of power making the fed even more intruisive. The idea is that, a small state, such as New Hampshire, doesn't want to cede all of their influence over the governing feds just because they have a smaller population. To them, as an individual state, it's not acceptable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taz 0 #57 October 31, 2003 QuoteDo a google search. I am perfectly capable of doing a google search, thanks, but my point was not meant to be taken so literally. Electoral college delegates are actually empowered to vote any way they feel, even if the constituents they represent voted for a different candidate. In the beginning, this was not about preventing landslide victories but about the elitist dudes who wrote the rules wanting safeguards against the uneducated masses. Now, however, the electoral college system has (rightfully) become de facto an instrument of "democracy", and if a delegate voted outside of his mandate it would be seen as a huge abuse of the system. However, all that is irrelevant to how Bush came to power. Bush came to power because the Supreme Court put him in the White House. And, reverting back to a very old traditional of elitist rule that doesn't give a damn about what most people want, he immediately began governing as though he had a mandate from a majority of Americans. Some call it "strong leadership", others see it as "abuse of power" and "disrespect of democratic principles". Either way, it would be nice to think that the citizens of the United States will in some way determine the next four-year term, rather than the high priests of the Supreme Court.It's the Year of the Dragon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #58 October 31, 2003 >>the citizens of the United States will in some way determine the next four-year term<< We will. Just as we determined the last one. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antimike 0 #59 October 31, 2003 *** Democracy: A system whereby one person may have more people vote for him but because some fucked up college system exists does not win.*** I think you shoud worry a little more about fixing your own country rather than calling what our framers did fucked up. It might not be perfect but it is the best thing going!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #60 October 31, 2003 QuoteI think the constitution sucks. I wonder how you say that in German . . . 'cause our constitution and the people it supports are directly responsible for the fact that you don't need to speak it today . . . or maybe it would be Japanese, ya never know . . . . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taz 0 #61 October 31, 2003 QuoteIt might not be perfect but it is the best thing going!!! Yeah, the US constitution isn't bad when it's being used properly. Not so great when even US citizens (and not just those evil terrorist furners) can be detained indefinitely without cause, held without access to a lawyer, and tried in a closed tribunal without full access to the accusations against them. That kind of puts a damper on the whole constitution thing. It's not about the document, it's about the people entrusted with upholding it.It's the Year of the Dragon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #62 October 31, 2003 QuoteBush came to power because the Supreme Court put him in the White House. That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.... Actually you may recall, a recount was issue, and, Bush was in fact the winner even after the recount. Don't be so naive...it makes you look stupid. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #63 October 31, 2003 QuoteI think the constitution sucks. It why someone in America gets shot every 90 seconds. The RIGHT to bear arms. What fucking century are you living in?? I think the constitution should be updated. But why should I really care - I don't live in the States. This coming from someone who lives in a country with a queen, rampant home invasions and illegal machineguns reaching numbers equivalent of those of illegal semi-autos. Gimme a fucking break. If the day comes that you ever do decide you want to come suck of the big teet of the American family, please let me know, so I can be sure to forward the above quote to the INS, my congressman and senator. Thanks for playing, but your opinion meets tee tee. No offense, of course. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirage63 0 #64 October 31, 2003 Isn't this a great country or what. People that don't live here can bitch about how screwed up our goverment is. That it's unfair that Bush got elected. Funny you don't hear a lot of conversation pro or con about the country they come from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #65 October 31, 2003 You're reading my mind. I was just thinking about how cool it would be to be able to slam Tony Blair. Actually, I like the guy. I then thought about slamming whatever socialist is in power in France. Who cares? Frankly, it just goes to show how truly great this country is and how the animosity and jealousy of not being from here can get the best of some. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #66 October 31, 2003 QuotePeople that don't live here can bitch about how screwed up our goverment is. Wow... You re right..... No one but Americans have freedom of speech. We all better STFU.... Most americans dont know where Canada is, never mind discussing its politics.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #67 October 31, 2003 I'm getting sick of the endless arguments about the last election. Left wingers: Bush won because that's how the electoral system works. Every recount, every analysis shows him willing via the electoral college, which is the constitutional way of determining who is president. If it bothers you, lobby for an amendment to change it. Until then - deal with it. It's how the system works. Right wingers: A lot more people voted for Gore than Bush; he won the popular vote. Deal with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #68 October 31, 2003 >>No one but Americans have freedom of speech. We all better STFU.... << Don't take all this the wrong way, dude. It just seems funny to us when people from third world hellholes (no, not Canada) cast aspersions on the U.S. because we have too much individual liberty. Basically, I am considering some of the US-bashers in this thread trolls. They were fun to feed for a while, but now they just smell funny. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,099 #69 October 31, 2003 Quote I think the electoral college is a good thing. It keeps a small number of large population states and urban areas from having too much power. No matter how much of a landslide a candidate might have in LA and NY, if he wins a majority in many other small states, he wins. Incorrect, simplistic analysis. A proper analysis of the ability of any citizen to affect the outcome of an election with a system like the electoral college shows that voters in large states have disproportionately too much power compared to small states. See, for example, www.cs.unc.edu/~livingst/Banzhaf/... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #70 October 31, 2003 That'd be north, right? See, I am not stupid. Y'all got some good stuff up there. Hockey is great! Do y'all have a government too? Is that like one of those things where the town's pharmacist is actually the mayor too? mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #71 October 31, 2003 QuoteMost americans dont know where Canada is, never mind discussing its politics. This is a completely ridiculous statement. Everyone knows Canada is just east of the US . . . . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #72 October 31, 2003 QuoteEveryone knows Canada is just east of the US . . . See!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,099 #73 October 31, 2003 QuoteQuoteI think the constitution sucks. I wonder how you say that in German . . . 'cause our constitution and the people it supports are directly responsible for the fact that you don't need to speak it today . . . or maybe it would be Japanese, ya never know . . . Yet another Hollywood historian.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #74 October 31, 2003 >>See, for example, http://www.cs.unc.edu/~livingst/Banzhaf/<< Interesting. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirage63 0 #75 October 31, 2003 Sure we know where Canada is, sort of my comment has nothing to do with anybody else having the "freedom" to say anything. My point is that there is a LOT of discussion about America's problems, I believe in part cause we are the "big dog" currently - and that will change with time. My pride in America is that I don't want you to STFU. That's what makes this a great place. Who knows maybe one day Canada will be a super power...........maybe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 3 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
