Newbie Container Question

[ArizonaStone 0]

Hi guys! I am sure this has been asked before and if you're tired of such questions and feel the need to tell me to use the 'Search' function, don't bother to reply.

I am in the market for my pre-second container. Thought you'd get me on the beer huh? I am going to buy a new rig from the get go as I am in a demo program and have the ability to demo gear before I buy. I will downsize to probably 1:1 before I settle and buy a rig. Before you say anything. Safety is way more important to me than high performance. A broken leg can screw up my career.

Okay. I have been researching different containers. The Icon, G4, Infinity, Javelin, Vector, etc. All of them seem to be the same more or less and they all seem to offer the same options. So, my question is, 'What really separates one from another?"

I know quality of construction is a big factor, but when talking about the major players; how do you choose one over another? I can jump some of these manufactures' rigs, but in reality, one quality rig seems much like another.

Thanks in advance for any useful advice you may be able to offer an overwhelmed newb!

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."

-Benjamin Franklin

[Hellis 0]

Pincover
Closingloop placing
Risercovers
Placement of AAD cutter
How many locking/line-stows on the bag
Freebagdesign
Reserve pilotchute design (and function)
Looks
Comfort

[davelepka 4]

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how do you choose one over another? I can jump some of these manufactures' rigs, but in reality, one quality rig seems much like another

This is where buying a used rig for your first comes into play.

Buying your own rig gets you 'in the game'. It gets you jumping on a regular basis, learning more about the gear, it's features, and how they work for you on a daily basis. It gets your face out there to the point that you can borrow a rig for a test jump and see if you like it (rig manufacturers typically do not have 'demo' programs). It gets you a vechicle to jump demo canopies from the various manufacturers (most demo programs let you keep a canopy for a couple weeks, so you get a chance to 'live' with the canopy).

More or less, a used rig is a way to further your learniing, and allow you to make an 'educated' choice about buying new gear. A used rig will experience very little loss in value over the course of 100 jumps, so you can get your 'education' for next to nothing, then order the new gear of your choice.

If you buy a new rig, and then find out you would have preferred something better, you're going to lose $1000's on the resale. The chances of finding a buyer who wants exactly the rig you wanted, and is willing to pay almost brand-new price for a not brand-new rig is slim, so you end up having to chop the price to get a buyer to bite.

There really is no way to say what will work or not work for you. People will have opinions about gear, but their opinions are based on the 'little stuff'. All of the rigs you listed will function and last a long time, that's the 'big stuff', but when it comes to why jumper A likes rig B better than rig C, it's in the details of the rig, and jumper A only found that out by jumping different rigs for an extended period of time, and developing their ability to 'rate' a rig on that basis.

[johnmatrix 21]

Length of the designer's beard

[piisfish 140]

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Length of the designer's beard

or haircut

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

The Racer from Jump Shack has a significantly different reserve PC arrangement with two reserve pins located against the jumper's back.
http://www.jumpshack.com/

The folks I know who jump Racers really like them and almost always say the same thing: "It is the most comfortable rig I have ever jumped".

You will find that Racers often provoke strong opinions from jumpers and riggers (both positive and negative).

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[skybytch 273]

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'What really separates one from another?"

Not much.

A few things to consider that may not be obvious -

Location - If the manufacturer of your container is located close to you, you will save money and time should you ever need their help. Riggers in the immediate area will likely be very familiar with that container.

Delivery time - How long are you willing to wait? Delivery times vary by manufacturer and time of year.

Comfort - Some harnesses and containers will fit/feel better on your body than others; the container brand that is perfect for me may be uncomfortable on you. The only way to figure out which ones fit you best is to jump as many as possible. Take full advantage of that demo program before you decide.

[ArizonaStone 0]

Thanks for all the replies. It seems I have to just find what I want in terms of options and pick a manufacturer and go with it. Obviously I am going to be jumping as many demo rigs as I can. Off to do more research...

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."

-Benjamin Franklin

[riggerrob 643]

Racers are only flexible and comfortable if you stay within Jump Shack's recommendations for canopy volume.

IOW if you over-stuff a Racer, they become as comfortable as bricks!
If you over-stuff most other rigs, they become difficult to close, wear out quickly, are as comfortable as bricks and might hesitate.

Do you get the hint that I hate all over-stuffed rigs?????

[riggerrob 643]

Ask your local rigger which model he /she prefers.

Many years ago, I remember a rigger telling his girlfriend "If you buy model Z, you will have to ship it out of the province to get it re-packed."

[theonlyski 8]

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Do you get the hint that I hate all over-stuffed rigs?????

Who doesn't?

But hey, its a small, sexy rig that now looks like shit and is just a bitch to wear and pack, who cares? It LOOKS cool!

To me, it just looks like shit.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[ArizonaStone 0]

I've had the opportunity so far to try an Icon and a G4. A world of difference in terms of comfort. The Icon almost didn't even feel like it was there. The G4 on the other hand hurt my legs on the canopy ride and the chest rings poked into my chest. I guess the G4 is out.

As for the Racer. Maybe I'm vain , but it is not as visually appealing to me as some of the other rigs. It would have to be a very comfortable and reliable rig for me to consider paying the 'new' price for it.

When I downsize my canopy here in a week or two I am going to try out the Voodoo and Talon. Rigging Innovations is a local manufacturer for me and will probably help in saving time and money on repairs.

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."

-Benjamin Franklin

[dpreguy 14]

Arizonastone, "newbie" with 30 some jumps: Rig selection:
If you used gear in your jump training that was equipped with an RSL, and want to continue jumping a harness/container setup with an RSL, you need to avoid Racer. Their RSL setup is a goofy-afterthought construct, and virtually does not exist on any Racer I have seen. I have been jumping for a million years, and have yet to see a Racer with equipped with one. There is a reason for that.

Also,ask just about any rigger what they think of the Racer RSL setup, and whether they believe it would reliably work when needed.

You would be well-advised to focus your search on rigs that have proven RSL systems.

[Remster 30]

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When I downsize my canopy here in a week or two I am going to try out the Voodoo and Talon. Rigging Innovations is a local manufacturer for me and will probably help in saving time and money on repairs.

Being in Eloy, that's definitely a plus. You can get sized and checked by the people from RI, and Margie at SQ2 has probably also measure more customers for Talons than anyone. And they are quality product. My wife is extremely happy with hers (It was the second rig they made with a super narrow yoke based on her small frame, which probably could only be done if you were in Eloy to meet with them a few times)

This being said, From feedback from several people, Talons fairly often dont fit well on people with long torsos.

Remster

[ArizonaStone 0]

Thanks for the feedback. Until I downsize, I won't be able to try the Talon. Hopefully that will be after my canopy course with AXIS tomorrow. I do like convenience (lazy) so I'm hoping RI will be the rig for me. I'll have a chat with Margie.

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."

-Benjamin Franklin

[riggerrob 643]

Re: Racer RSL

I also dislike the cross-connector style RSL installed on Racers, HOWEVER, a few years back, John Sherman (the dude who designed the Racer) told me that it was okay to attach both Swedish Snap Shackles to one main riser (presumably the left). That should eliminate the risk of snagging the RSL on the back of your helmet.

If I were jumping RAcer Tandems - on a regular basis - I would attach both Swedish Snap Shackles to my left main riser and sew them together 3/4 of the way to reduce the size of the loop, further reducing the risk of snagging the RSL on any of my head gear.

[RMK 3]

I bought my first rig new at 35 jumps. Note in “new guy” rig threads, that cheapest, best value and best are three different things. I started with a new rig at 35 jumps and 1.15 wingload, I immediately took a canopy course and would do the same again. My personal feedback is that I consider Vector and Sunpath containers the best. I have a Javelin Odyssey now, but am looking at buying a new rig and will move over to Vector this time. I’d opt for the Skyhook, all stainless hardware and all other bells/whistles. A rig will generally allow for 1 size lower canopy; so starting with 1.1ish will put you at 1.25ish and will last a while (providing you not in this odd quest of quickly downsizing until you a danger to yourself and everyone else). At a point when you have higher jump numbers, a lower wingload is more friendly should look to get into wingsuiting.

This was perfect for me and may vary for others. My inputs were:

• wanted the best, not concerned about price
• was not planning on getting into swopping
• planned on canopy coaching and being careful early as I realised that even 1.1 or 1.5 is still on the “hot” side when you have sub 50 jumps
• wanted it to look nice (many of the cheaper rigs – look “cheap”)

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[bofh 0]

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I've had the opportunity so far to try an Icon and a G4. A world of difference in terms of comfort. The Icon almost didn't even feel like it was there. The G4 on the other hand hurt my legs on the canopy ride and the chest rings poked into my chest. I guess the G4 is out.

There's quite a lot of difference between a container that has the correct size for you and one that does not. For example I really like my Wings, on the other hand I've jumped some Wings that were slightly too small for me that was quite uncomfortable. Same thing with other containers.

So before ruling out a container because of how it feels make sure its the correct size for you.